Whack to the arse

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I can of course completely understand why people make the comparison. For me it absolutely isn't as simple as that though, and it never will be. I don't view my wife in the same way as I view my child. In an attempt to be objective, the comparison simply comes off as an abstract concept that ignores the fact that ignores human individuality.

You're right, In a way it does ignore individuality I guess because it's based on the idea that no matter the relationship, circumstance, people involved, age etc the use of pain and/or fear is not only ineffective compared to other methods but is also disrespectful. Like you, and I'm sure most people, I see my child and my husband in different ways. I don't equate that with it being acceptable or necessary to slap.

Now, my son is young. Still just a baby and maybe I'll loose my idealism as he grows, but I hope not.

As someone who suffered at the hand of someone who felt throwing their weight about to a small child was ok I can honestly say no, it's not ok.

All it served to do was make me scared and feel like a worthless piece of cr*p who had no place in the world.

I don't look up to this person with respect and understanding and think that's how my children should be disciplined too. I look down on them and think how could you?

wokingvoter wrote: »

Not repeatedly. Once. The mother was a clear as a bell. Put the ball away now and find some other game to play.
Total defiance of authority resulted in a small but swift and final punishment.
For their own safety as well as the well being of others, 5 year old girls need to do as they are told. Now.

Small children are savages. Communication neeeds to be very clear and very fast.

Keane2baMused wrote: »

As someone who suffered at the hand of someone who felt throwing their weight about to a small child was ok I can honestly say no, it's not ok.

All it served to do was make me scared and feel like a worthless piece of cr*p who had no place in the world.

I don't look up to this person with respect and understanding and think that's how my children should be disciplined too. I look down on them and think how could you?

Actually this also brings up; what's worse, a quick slap on the leg and move on or a parent who uses their words to make their child feel like crap.

It's scary how vulnerable kids can be at the hands of people who aren't fit to be parents. Most parents try to do their best for their kids, for some that might involve a slap every now and again. It's the abusive, angry, power hungry people that are the problem. Even if they had their hands tied those type of people can still wound

EIREAROEIRE wrote:

kids need to fear something if they think they go off and do sh#t with no worries they will do it if they think i will be killed if ido that they will think about it simple

What a load of rubbish as evidenced by the following honest and impressive post. ...

Keane2baMused wrote:

As someone who suffered at the hand of someone who felt throwing their weight about to a small child was ok I can honestly say no, it's not ok.

Keane2baMused wrote:

All it served to do was make me scared and feel like a worthless piece of cr*p who had no place in the world.

Keane2baMused wrote:

I don't look up to this person with respect and understanding and think that's how my children should be disciplined too. I look down on them and think how could you?

Fair play to your honesty.

jimgoose wrote: »

Bit of a generalisation there, chief. In the case of a six-foot fifteen-year-old with a knife, I'll take his fcukan head off with a roundhouse!

Sounds like some kind of horrible scenario where someone snaps after years of being whacked. I am sure it happens too once the child is big enough to stand up for themself.

jackinthemix94 wrote: »

I hope all these people that are fine with hitting a child with either a hand or an object would be happy to be hit themselves by somebody else as a punishment / to discipline them.

It. Is. Never. OK. To. Hit. A. Child.

I can't even imagine what would motivate a person to hit any child, never mind their own. It is a sign of poor / lazy parenting, and parents that are repeat offenders should be arrested and punished for hurting their child.

Confiscating items, grounding them, revoking privileges are all fine. Hitting a defenseless child, is not.

While I would not criminalise someone for slapping a child (repeat offenders...hmmm...perhaps but how much and how often?), there certainly are more effective techniques. Our kids had the (very) occasional slap on the bum when they were small, but you couldn't really say that it was part of the disciplinary repertoire in our house.

We've found two simple principles to be very effective...(a) never reward bad behaviour (i.e. tantrums should never result in a desire being satisfied) and (b) never make a threat you're not prepared to follow through on. Regarding note (b) parents should never, ever threaten to cancel a big event unless they really do mean it. I made that mistake once, thinking it would result in instant compliance only to discover that our younger daughter (at 4) had a real gift for brinkmanship...

Whispered wrote: »

You're right, In a way it does ignore individuality I guess because it's based on the idea that no matter the relationship, circumstance, people involved, age etc the use of pain and/or fear is not only ineffective compared to other methods but is also disrespectful. Like you, and I'm sure most people, I see my child and my husband in different ways. I don't equate that with it being acceptable or necessary to slap.

Now, my son is young. Still just a baby and maybe I'll loose my idealism as he grows, but I hope not.

Eesh, it's a tough one because what I would see as discipline, you're going to see as inflicting pain and fear in a child, and there's no way I could reassure that my child is now a happy, healthy, mature for his age, well-rounded child. The intent of smacking him was not to instill fear or inflict pain, but to instill discipline. I'm very much aware of what the statistics and studies have concluded on this and I can only reassure you again that I have never, ever intended to hurt or harm my own child.

Even when it comes to my own child, I don't raise him by the numbers, I don't think there's a parent or guardian alive that could raise their children by the numbers and raise an adult that would be a statistically "perfect in every way" adult, if that makes sense? There have been numerous books, articles, studies done on parenting and raising children and there is absolutely no "one size fits all" way to parent a child or children. It just doesn't happen. Parents as hard as they try to go against them, will always parent subjectively and by instinct rather than by any objective methodology.

I wouldn't call your position idealism, I think as their parent you will always want to do your best for your child. The vast, vast majority of parents do, but where I'm coming from is simply that each and every human being is an individual, and I don't subscribe to the "blank slate" theory that completely ignores an individuals personality and ignores a whole number of environmental and contextual factors in order to make an argument that literally is a very controlled set of ideal circumstances, and has no grounding in reality. That, is idealism.

to paraphrase Mrs Doyle...."we all need a good kick up the arse sometimes"

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Eesh, it's a tough one because what I would see as discipline, you're going to see as inflicting pain and fear in a child, and there's no way I could reassure that my child is now a happy, healthy, mature for his age, well-rounded child. The intent of smacking him was not to instill fear or inflict pain, but to instill discipline. I'm very much aware of what the statistics and studies have concluded on this and I can only reassure you again that I have never, ever intended to hurt or harm my own child.

Even when it comes to my own child, I don't raise him by the numbers, I don't think there's a parent or guardian alive that could raise their children by the numbers and raise an adult that would be a statistically "perfect in every way" adult, if that makes sense? There have been numerous books, articles, studies done on parenting and raising children and there is absolutely no "one size fits all" way to parent a child or children. It just doesn't happen. Parents as hard as they try to go against them, will always parent subjectively and by instinct rather than by any objective methodology.

I wouldn't call your position idealism, I think as their parent you will always want to do your best for your child. The vast, vast majority of parents do, but where I'm coming from is simply that each and every human being is an individual, and I don't subscribe to the "blank slate" theory that completely ignores an individuals personality and ignores a whole number of environmental and contextual factors in order to make an argument that literally is a very controlled set of ideal circumstances, and has no grounding in reality. That, is idealism.

IT is a tough one because decent parents aren't going to physically damage their kids either way, whether they sometimes think a slap is warranted or not.
On the idea that you giving a slap to instil discipline but not fear/pain, how does a slap work if it doesn't instil the fear of it happening again?

I'm not really speaking about a "blank slate" theory when I say I disagree with slapping, I'm working from learning theory, which at its most basic level, is the same across most species! Obviously how it's implemented is best looked at on an individual basis. (Of course lack of parenting at all can have a fall out im not suggestion that kids shouldn't be disciplined)
I would think it depends on the circumstance but I can't imagine a scenario in which I'd slap where I hadn't lost control. Where I hadn't let the situation get out of hand.

Fwiw I feel the same about using shouting, shaming the child and threats in parenting. In an ideal world we'd find other ways of doing it. But despite best intentions I've lost the head with my boy and shouted - usually when I've taken my eye off the ball and he's about to do something dangerous.

I think you're right too about parents trying to be perfect. People put so much pressure on themselves and that in itself can cause frustration and short tempered behaviour. I'm also aware that while I'm saying I disagree with X,y or z, there are likely to be things I do everyday that others would disagree with. We're never all going to agree on best methods.

anitaca wrote: »

but (some) women do slap men when men do something women dont like and its more socially acceptable than hitting a child.

Not really - people hear of a child getting a smack, they think the child did something to deserve it.

They hear it happened in a relationship, they advise the receiver should get the **** out.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Not really - people hear of a child getting a smack, they think the child did something to deserve it.

They hear it happened in a relationship, they advise the receiver should get the **** out.

Those two examples are easily interchangeable. One could apply the generalisation either way.

Fleawuss wrote: »

I thought this was going to be about a folk song from the Dubliners: I could hear the chorus "whack to the arse...something something O". ."

Was it about Reillys Daughter.

Thanks a lot anyway. You have just given an ear worm.