Running for beginners

Ed Mc Groarty · 18-05-2016 10:00AM

Enduro wrote:

It could also be that your running too hard. A lot of modern theory on the causes of stitch is that is very little to do with food or water intake, but much more associated with lack of conditioning. So try easing off a bit.

I can vouch for this.
Having recently (last six months) started to add in interval training at paces I've never run before I started to get stitches, for the first time,on every rep. bringing me to a stand still on some.
They eased off as I became more comfortable at said paces.

HigginsJ · 18-05-2016 11:07AM

Really enjoying reading peoples experiences on this thread. The positive examples of those who started the C25K and are now running much more is a great motivation, it really works.

I had Day 3 of Week 7 today, just wanted to add a little extra time to get a certain distance so I managed to completed 7.04Km in 38:48 which I am pretty happy with. My per KM time was down a bit on my recent 5k & 6k runs but only by a few seconds per KM.

Again finding the early parts of the run the hardest, once I have got into a decent tempo around the 2km mark it gets easier nearly from there.

sconhome · 18-05-2016 11:14AM

Nice going HigginsJ!!

Your post below is timely too:

HigginsJ wrote: »

My per KM time was down a bit on my recent 5k & 6k runs but only by a few seconds per KM.

As general advice - every run will be different and you should not worry about the paces. Run for time and effort.

All too often I see people getting disappointed because they did not run a PB in training. The only place you should be seeing PB's (personal bests) is in a race and even then it is only a PB for that course on that day in that weather. Next week could be slower.

Enduro · 18-05-2016 11:23AM

sconhome wrote: »

All too often I see people getting disappointed because they did not run a PB in training. The only place you should be seeing PB's (personal bests) is in a race and even then it is only a PB for that course on that day in that weather. Next week could be slower.

+10000

I never measure both my time and distance in training. One or the other, but definitely not both. Very little to gain, but a lot of potential unneccesary negative feedback. If you feel you've put in a good effort in training, then why mess with that. Similarly, easy days should be easy because they feel easy, not what the watch says.

HigginsJ · 18-05-2016 11:26AM

sconhome wrote: »

Nice going HigginsJ!!

Your post below is timely too:

As general advice - every run will be different and you should not worry about the paces. Run for time and effort.

All too often I see people getting disappointed because they did not run a PB in training. The only place you should be seeing PB's (personal bests) is in a race and even then it is only a PB for that course on that day in that weather. Next week could be slower.

Enduro wrote: »

+10000

I never measure both my time and distance in training. One or the other, but definitely not both. Very little to gain, but a lot of potential unneccesary negative feedback. If you feel you've put in a good effort in training, then why mess with that. Similarly, easy days should be easy because they feel easy, not what the watch says.

Thanks for the feedback guys, will keep this in mind.

livedadream · 18-05-2016 11:31AM

any tips for those of us on those days when you struggle... the bad run days

i did the bay run Sunday did the first 5 km no bother which was surprising as i found it was mostly uphill.

it was my second ten km ever so i was delighted to finish despite having a little meltdown at 7km and walking for just over a kilometer.

went back to my club last night and we were doing a new route super excited but the aches just didnt go away i felt like i never got into a good rhythm... just all around bad.

i am coming back from a knee injury (i slipped in a shopping centre and tore my MLC and popped my miniscus thingi in my knee) the knee is fine its just the other stuff like the tightness caused by it its bothering me.

any tips for the days when it just doenst go right.

(note i am still technically overweight (ive dropped over 6 stone), ive been told by my physio and specialist that as long as im not doing the dog with mental miles i will be fine knee and impact wise due to my weight but i do need to be careful)

demfad · 18-05-2016 11:48AM

livedadream wrote: »

any tips for those of us on those days when you struggle... the bad run days

i did the bay run Sunday did the first 5 km no bother which was surprising as i found it was mostly uphill.

it was my second ten km ever so i was delighted to finish despite having a little meltdown at 7km and walking for just over a kilometer.

went back to my club last night and we were doing a new route super excited but the aches just didnt go away i felt like i never got into a good rhythm... just all around bad.

i am coming back from a knee injury (i slipped in a shopping centre and tore my MLC and popped my miniscus thingi in my knee) the knee is fine its just the other stuff like the tightness caused by it its bothering me.

any tips for the days when it just doenst go right.

(note i am still technically overweight (ive dropped over 6 stone), ive been told by my physio and specialist that as long as im not doing the dog with mental miles i will be fine knee and impact wise due to my weight but i do need to be careful)

Longer races tend to be about endurance. If the first 5km was mostly uphill it will take a lot of strenght from you. That's a possible reason for the difficulties after. You could stick a few hills into your longer runs, or try and finish them a little quicker to specifically address that issue. Will help with endurance and strenght.
Main thing is just keep doing it. Keep it under control. Youll get fit and strong with consistancy alone.

livedadream · 18-05-2016 11:52AM

demfad wrote: »

Longer races tend to be about endurance. If the first 5km was mostly uphill it will take a lot of strenght from you. That's a possible reason for the difficulties after. You could stick a few hills into your longer runs, or try and finish them a little quicker to specifically address that issue. Will help with endurance and strenght.
Main thing is just keep doing it. Keep it under control. Youll get fit and strong with consistancy alone.

im not really at the long run stage yet. all runs seem long to me hahaaaa

i run three times a week: twice with my club, normally 5-6 km at a nice pace (im generally at the front of the group) dont feel totally battered after. but sweaty and out of breath.

i do a gym session then once a week on the threadmill along with weight and HIIT training that 30 odd minutes on the threadmil is the longest 30 minutes of my life.
right now im doing like you said focusing on building endurance just building consistancy. and i am getting better and stronger,faster etc.

just hate those days when it all seems tooo hard.

demfad · 18-05-2016 12:20PM

livedadream wrote: »

im not really at the long run stage yet. all runs seem long to me hahaaaa

i run three times a week: twice with my club, normally 5-6 km at a nice pace (im generally at the front of the group) dont feel totally battered after. but sweaty and out of breath.

i do a gym session then once a week on the threadmill along with weight and HIIT training that 30 odd minutes on the threadmil is the longest 30 minutes of my life.
right now im doing like you said focusing on building endurance just building consistancy. and i am getting better and stronger,faster etc.

just hate those days when it all seems tooo hard.

When I say 'your longer runs' I mean relatively--so your longer/longest run. Your issue was most likely endurance. If 10k is longer than all your runs then a 10k race will test your endurance. It's fine as the race will bring you on, endurance wise.

livedadream · 18-05-2016 12:22PM

demfad wrote: »

When I say long I mean relatively--so your longest run. Your issue was most likely endurance. If 10k is longer than all your runs then a 10k race will test your endurance. It's fine as the race will bring you on, endurance wise.

ohh okay, sorry whenever i see people talking about long runs i think miles and miles not my 10km hahaa thanks!

HigginsJ · 18-05-2016 12:35PM

livedadream wrote: »

ohh okay, sorry whenever i see people talking about long runs i think miles and miles not my 10km hahaa thanks!

10Km will be a very long run for some of us in here I reckon. It's all relative!!

livedadream · 18-05-2016 12:37PM

HigginsJ wrote: »

10Km will be a very long run for some of us in here I reckon. It's all relative!!

it felt like years to me... 1hr 16 minutes longest of my life

HigginsJ · 18-05-2016 12:57PM

livedadream wrote: »

it felt like years to me... 1hr 16 minutes longest of my life

That's fantastic

Haven't attempted it yet, reckon about 2 to 3 weeks away from it, going to do it some Saturday or Sunday. Have a time in my head but going to keep it to myself :P

livedadream · 18-05-2016 01:05PM

HigginsJ wrote: »

That's fantastic

Haven't attempted it yet, reckon about 2 to 3 weeks away from it, going to do it some Saturday or Sunday. Have a time in my head but going to keep it to myself :P

thanks, still dying after it did 6km with my crew last night and my left leg is battered physio this evening though so alls well!

i kinda dont think about the time i have mapmyrun but turn off the bit where she says how fast or slow im going and the distance im just trying to not die while running now... im told it gets easier and then you just run further haaha and faster lolz!

sconhome · 18-05-2016 02:03PM

HigginsJ wrote: »

10Km will be a very long run for some of us in here I reckon. It's all relative!!

Cos you opened a great topic that confuses many, I'm going to throw out a little guidance.

We all understand the desire to go distances especially as a new-to-running runner (relatively) but in training forget about distances.

The C25k while about running 5k is all about running for time. 2 mins on 3 off all the way to 20 and 28mins running. Most of my crew reach 5k around week 5 but I don't tell them until week 7 that they hit the distance.

If you follow the C25k you will run a 5k in a decent time relative to your fitness - remember breathing scale and perceived effort is what it is about. Don't let your mind play tricks on how hard you are running.

For example, I've just started a half marathon training program and all the runs are for time & effort. This is completely irrelevant of how fit participants are. Everyone works for the same time & at the same individual level of effort. The distance will look after itself.

Pacing Mule · 18-05-2016 02:09PM

sconhome wrote: »

Cos you opened a great topic that confuses many, I'm going to throw out a little guidance.

We all understand the desire to go distances especially as a new-to-running runner (relatively) but in training forget about distances.

The C25k while about running 5k is all about running for time. 2 mins on 3 off all the way to 20 and 28mins running. Most of my crew reach 5k around week 5 but I don't tell them until week 7 that they hit the distance.

If you follow the C25k you will run a 5k in a decent time relative to your fitness - remember breathing scale and perceived effort is what it is about. Don't let your mind play tricks on how hard you are running.

For example, I've just started a half marathon training program and all the runs are for time & effort. This is completely irrelevant of how fit participants are. Everyone works for the same time & at the same individual level of effort. The distance will look after itself.

That's a relatively very fit crew you have there. I'd hazard an educated guess that most people on couch to 5k who actually come from a zero fitness base literally off the couch don't hit 5k in the 30 minutes.

sconhome · 18-05-2016 02:14PM

Pacing Mule wrote: »

That's a relatively very fit crew you have there. I'd hazard an educated guess that most people on couch to 5k who actually come from a zero fitness base literally off the couch don't hit 5k in the 30 minutes.

Absolutely not! That would be 5k over the complete warmup, session, cooldown rather than in the running bits alone. Timing likely in the 35-40mins.

Beginners are complete beginners. Little or no running experience and lacking the confidence to start with Fit 4 Life or any of the clubs. Many do go on to the clubs afterwards though.

livedadream · 18-05-2016 02:17PM

Pacing Mule wrote: »

That's a relatively very fit crew you have there. I'd hazard an educated guess that most people on couch to 5k who actually come from a zero fitness base literally off the couch don't hit 5k in the 30 minutes.

i did C25K last year in Jaunary, i was 20 stone 2 lbs (horrified i know) i puked and almost died. i actually did every week twice so it took me twice as long but it was easier for me that way. (my GP recommended it that way instead of just the 8 weeks straight)

i was literally the couch potato it was designed for. i weights the same as a couch anyway..

i dont think i will ever hit 5km in 30 minutes (i blame my little legs

) but i dont care, i finish 5km and 10km... and starting and finishing is all i care about (within reason obviously, i dont wana be in four hours after everyone else like)

my fastest 5km is 31:56 and that was a serious effort. even some of the fittest runners in my group wouldn't hit 5km in 30 minutes and still dont after solid training.

HigginsJ · 18-05-2016 02:26PM

sconhome wrote: »

If you follow the C25k you will run a 5k in a decent time relative to your fitness - remember breathing scale and perceived effort is what it is about. Don't let your mind play tricks on how hard you are running.

I'm not familiar with breathing scale & perceived effort as terms. Can you tell me a little more.

jameshayes · 18-05-2016 02:46PM

HigginsJ wrote: »

I'm not familiar with breathing scale & perceived effort as terms. Can you tell me a little more.

A good breakdown of it available here; http://www.runnersworld.com/running-tips/speak-easy

The Talk Test
Endurance Zone: Carry on a full conversation

Stamina Zone: Speak in 1-2 sentences

Speed Zone: Speak 1-2 words but definitely not a lot of talking

Spring Zone: Grunts, moans, aack

sconhome · 18-05-2016 02:49PM

HigginsJ wrote: »

I'm not familiar with breathing scale & perceived effort as terms. Can you tell me a little more.

Having an idea of how hard you are working for a particular time is the best way to gauge your fitness level.

The most common way of doing this is by using Heart rate monitoring (HRM).
This can be roughly equated to a Breath Scale - so breathing is raggedy and you can't string a couple of words together - you're flat out at the upper limit of your capacity.

Breathing calm and flat and you can comfortably carry on a conversation you are at the lower end and running 'easy'

Rate of Perceived Exertion (RPE) is a subjective feeling of how hard you feel you are working. You have to be honest with yourself cos it's easy to say "I'm wrecked" but not be pushing yourself hard.

I think Breath scale or HRM is the most honest way of doing this. (Both can be measured for free too!)

sconhome wrote: »

The one thing if you are getting out of breath following the C25k you are probably pushing too hard on the 'on' sessions and not recovering enough in the 'off' periods. I usually use the Breath scale with our runners https://allrunningmatters.wordpress.com/2015/10/31/how-do-i-know-how-hard-i-should-be-working-out/ so they can gauge things properly for themselves..

HigginsJ · 18-05-2016 02:55PM

jameshayes wrote: »

A good breakdown of it available here; http://www.runnersworld.com/running-tips/speak-easy

The Talk Test
Endurance Zone: Carry on a full conversation

Stamina Zone: Speak in 1-2 sentences

Speed Zone: Speak 1-2 words but definitely not a lot of talking

Spring Zone: Grunts, moans, aack

I would say going on this most of my run would fall into the stamina zone with a small part in that spring zone (early in the run, a few uphill parts one of which is a 25m gain in about 1/2km which I find very tough)

Pacing Mule · 18-05-2016 02:58PM

livedadream wrote: »

i did C25K last year in Jaunary, i was 20 stone 2 lbs (horrified i know) i puked and almost died. i actually did every week twice so it took me twice as long but it was easier for me that way. (my GP recommended it that way instead of just the 8 weeks straight)

i was literally the couch potato it was designed for. i weights the same as a couch anyway..

i dont think i will ever hit 5km in 30 minutes (i blame my little legs ) but i dont care, i finish 5km and 10km... and starting and finishing is all i care about (within reason obviously, i dont wana be in four hours after everyone else like)

my fastest 5km is 31:56 and that was a serious effort. even some of the fittest runners in my group wouldn't hit 5km in 30 minutes and still dont after solid training.

Started it at 17 stone myself. Failed to complete day 1 on first attempt. Eventually did 5k in well over 30 minutes and like you thought I never would break 30. I did ! It took time but I did. Current pb is 20:47 and will be 19:Xx in the next couple of months.

Stick with it. Sub 30 will come to you for sure.

livedadream · 18-05-2016 03:01PM

Pacing Mule wrote: »

Started it at 17 stone myself. Failed to complete day 1 on first attempt. Eventually did 5k in well over 30 minutes and like you thought I never would break 30. I did ! It took time but I did. Current pb is 20:47 and will be 19:Xx in the next couple of months.

Stick with it. Sub 30 will come to you for sure.

jesus well done, i figure now im 6 stone lighter its easier but i dont think ill ever be fast hahahaa

gutenberg · 18-05-2016 03:06PM

I think the furthest I've run so far (I'm on Week 5) is just under 4K, including the warm-up & cool down. Should I be getting farther than this, do people think? I'm far from fast, I just try to take it at a steady pace that I can maintain. But trying to bridge that extra kilometre in the same amount of time seems like a stretch.

Pacing Mule · 18-05-2016 03:08PM

livedadream wrote: »

jesus well done, i figure now im 6 stone lighter its easier but i dont think ill ever be fast hahahaa

You'd be amazed at the background / weight loss stories of some of the faster runners on here (I don't include myself in that just to be clear !)

Definitely is easier with weight off. And will get easier as more comes off and more time passes running in general.

livedadream · 18-05-2016 03:08PM

gutenberg wrote: »

I think the furthest I've run so far (I'm on Week 5) is just under 4K, including the warm-up & cool down. Should I be getting farther than this, do people think? I'm far from fast, I just try to take it at a steady pace that I can maintain. But trying to bridge that extra kilometre in the same amount of time seems like a stretch.

i know nothing about it but personally id prefer to run at a solid pace for a longer time than a specific distance, and im a year into it.

gutenberg · 18-05-2016 03:14PM

livedadream wrote: »

i know nothing about it but personally id prefer to run at a solid pace for a longer time than a specific distance, and im a year into it.

Reading your posts, sounds like you've been on an incredible journey

Yeah, I think I should just focus on finishing the programme for the moment, including getting through the longer runs, rather than focusing on a specific distance or time.

Looking at the posts about effort, I could probably afford to push myself a bit harder when I'm out - looking at sconhome's chart, I'd say I was between 4-6 mostly. I don't feel absolutely dead when I get home from a run. Not that you want to feel dead, but I wonder if I can push the effort a little more...

livedadream · 18-05-2016 03:21PM

gutenberg wrote: »

Reading your posts, sounds like you've been on an incredible journey

thanks, nothing special about it really got super fat travelling and had a bad breakup got even fatter. needed to lose it. lost it. i like to run, its easier if your not the size of a mini cooper.

gutenberg wrote: »

Looking at the posts about effort, I could probably afford to push myself a bit harder when I'm out - looking at sconhome's chart, I'd say I was between 4-6 mostly. I don't feel absolutely dead when I get home from a run. Not that you want to feel dead, but I wonder if I can push the effort a little more...

im one of those people who things you can always push a bit more but i needed to learnt he balance, endurance over distance and pace over speed.

sconhome · 18-05-2016 03:21PM

@gutenberg do you run with music?

If you can sing along you are in the easy zone (3-4). When you are doing the 'on' intervals it should be sounding like a death metal grunt!! (6/7-8)

Running for beginners

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