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Should RTE withdraw from Eurovision 2016 ?

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Comments

  • #32
    Strazdas
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,145 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    AwaitYourReply wrote: »
    I'm not sure if it is entirely accurate to suggest that RTÉ gets around eight hours of live TV content during Eurovision week by linking it solely to the €60,000 entry fee payment referenced.

    I've also seen a €250,000 figure referenced somewhere in relation to Ireland and the Eurovision which may or may not include the €60,000 entry fee which leaves me wondering about the following:

    What is the Total Overall Cost paid directly & indirectly by RTÉ each year?

    Does it currently represent excellent value for money taking into account all of the TV viewer ratings breakdown for each of the broadcasts carried?

    Have all the radical changes to the Eurovision competition rules such as the removal of Ireland's automatic right to qualification introduced some years ago gone down positively with the audience here in Ireland?

    Would the Irish TV Licence Fee payer welcome a return to Ireland having automatic entry again to the Saturday Night Final just like the 5 big nations currently enjoy?

    Have changes to the whole voting system to include SMS text entries meant that smaller nations like Ireland will find it more difficult to ever win again?

    Is the Eurovision still upholding the core values of the founding competition or has it become too much of a commercial venture determined to generate revenue by some of the following elements:

    Too willing to admit countries even from the far outer fringes of Europe and even beyond if you consider Israel, Azerbaijan, Australia to name but a few. In the case of Australia which is situated in the Asia-Pacific region they were allowed to return again in 2016 and who knows if the USA will seek to follow suit after it televised the event for the first time in 2016.

    Introducing commercial breaks into the format - disrupts the flow and atmosphere and encourages the TV viewing public to switch channel or go off and do something else.

    Right now, I do not think Nicky Byrne deserved to win as it happens. But let's say for argument that we did have an amazing song/performance act to represent Ireland at Eurovision, I still do not believe that anyone here would qualify and even if they managed to get through to finals night, they would have little hope in finishing in the top three due to the way this competition has developed. I fear that Eurovision as a competition has surrendered it's values and it's been allowed to evolve into a very big commercial entity.

    Italy had stayed away from the Eurovision for quite some time but when they eventually returned this country was guaranteed qualification to the finals as an incentive for returning to the competition after a number of years of not participating at all.

    RTÉ on behalf of Ireland should join Turkey and boycott Eurovision as it is time to register our opposition to what Eurovision has become. Then in a few years time, they may offer Ireland an olive branch (We only went and won a record X 7 times the most by any country in the history of the competition).

    The full figure is up and around 160-180,000 Euros but that includes the costs of the Eurosong competition (which wasn't used this year) and the travelling costs and staging in the actual Eurovision.

    Withdrawing because you're not happy with your results would be seen by most other countries as just throwing the toys out of the pram. Returning with a stronger singer and song the following year would be the simple solution.


  • #33
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 20,482 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Strazdas wrote: »
    The full figure is up and around 160-180,000 Euros but that includes the costs of the Eurosong competition (which wasn't used this year) and the travelling costs and staging in the actual Eurovision.

    Withdrawing because you're not happy with your results would be seen by most other countries as just throwing the toys out of the pram. Returning with a stronger singer and song the following year would be the simple solution.

    A stronger singer and song - now there's the rub.


  • #34
    AwaitYourReply
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,735 ✭✭✭AwaitYourReply


    Strazdas wrote: »
    The full figure is up and around 160-180,000 Euros but that includes the costs of the Eurosong competition (which wasn't used this year) and the travelling costs and staging in the actual Eurovision.

    Withdrawing because you're not happy with your results would be seen by most other countries as just throwing the toys out of the pram. Returning with a stronger singer and song the following year would be the simple solution.

    If I came across as being upset because of how we finished in 2016 only, then perhaps you would have a fair point. But it is not just about 2016 for me at all.

    This has been a gradual trend for quite some time now.
    We did not win since 1996 - which is now 20 Years ago.
    Are we just no longer nurturing talented songwriters and performers?
    Somehow I think it is much deeper than that.

    Take Nicky Byrne this year, a member of a major successful pop act in Westlife who cannot even get through the qualification stages then "Houston we have a problem" as someone like him would tend to have had a lot more public profile beyond these shores amongst a certain age demographic unlike say a new emerging Irish artist who would have more of a battle to face in showcasing their presence on a big intimidating stage watched by millions. We have tried sending Dustin, Jedward twice and Nicky Byrne but for some reason Ireland cannot do as well in the current format. Yet you could have something obscure winning 1st place from some countries.

    All I am saying is that this we are not going to enjoy a similar chance of success these days as the competition has radically changed and I would like to think that if and when we do have a strong song and decent performance ever again up on stage at Eurovision, then I would hope we would have a good chance but I think we are at a huge disadvantage and I think the low audience figures here may be due to an Irish audience losing all faith in the whole direction and spirit of the way Eurovision has drifted in more recent times.

    IMO Nicky would not have been a 1st place winner this year as the song itself was only average and catchy at best, but I often wonder how Ireland and all those countries who end up relegated in a given year would otherwise have finished in the placings if they had been all allowed to participate on the Saturday night final which used always been the case some years back. The only reason they had to introduce the semi-final qualifications stage was because they kept accepted more & more countries entering the competition which was fine if it was a country regarded as being physically in Europe.

    Right now, I think Eurovision is far too big and is no longer all just about Europe which should be it's raison d'etre but once they started including countries as far away as: Russia, Australia, Ukraine, Azerbaijan, Israel etc; as well it becomes something other than that. Where do we stop as it seems to have become more of a global competition and may so they may as well change the name and every core value altogether.
    That to me, is a pity.


  • #35
    AwaitYourReply
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,735 ✭✭✭AwaitYourReply


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    A stronger singer and song - now there's the rub.

    Of course, you can have some ghastly entries that end up as Winner and for me "Lordy" comes to mind. For me, it was daft and almost funny at the same and probably comes up a lot in terms of Pub Quiz trivia. How was Lordy allowed to even qualify from it's own national qualification process anyway!


  • #36
    Elmo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    I think you have to take RTE overall membership of the EBU. It provides them with more than just the Eurovision. It has in the past been helpful to RTE when it comes to sporting rights and also some news footage, I as far as I know each of the members provided footage to each other for use on their services.


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  • #37
    lertsnim
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,982 ✭✭✭lertsnim


    AwaitYourReply wrote: »
    Of course, you can have some ghastly entries that end up as Winner and for me "Lordy" comes to mind. For me, it was daft and almost funny at the same and probably comes up a lot in terms of Pub Quiz trivia. How was Lordy allowed to even qualify from it's own national qualification process anyway!

    Ghastly entry? Oh please. You are coming across as a bit of a musical snob.


  • #38
    mansize
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,521 ✭✭✭✭mansize


    42 countries.

    I enjoy it. We just need to make more of an effort than send a backing dancer (sitter) from a defunct boyband


  • #39
    Red Kev
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,793 ✭✭✭Red Kev


    We need a good song and singer; it's as simple as that.

    It has nothing to do with politics, certainly now that the jury vote is involved as well there's no reason to blame "bloc voting". Put up a good, catchy song like Lena in 2011 or Alexander Rybak in 2010 and you have a winner, or damn near it providing you aren't usurped by a Lordi or Conchita Wurst effort. Last years song was good, but probably won on the simple but highly effective visual effects and not a wolf, burning piano or trapeze in sight.

    Some people have said that there's too many countries involved that aren't "European", well it's not about being European, it's about being a member of the EBU, an organisation which is a lot more than just the Eurovision. So instead of complaining about it we just ave to deal with it.

    If it's a case that RTE don't want the gig due to budgetary issues (and it looks like they don't want it) then the government needs to accept that it's a 3 hour free advertisement to Europe, and they should guarantee a certain budget and personnel to cover the costs of it. Either way, RTE need to get the finger out and start to show the competition some effort and respect.


  • #40
    KingBrian2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,360 ✭✭✭KingBrian2


    The public still like to watch it so no keep it on air.


  • #41
    An Tarbh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 412 ✭✭An Tarbh


    Elmo wrote: »
    Also on presenting the votes on the night.

    RTE used to change the presenter each year AFAIK up until Nicky Byrne started doing it, Last year Panti presented the votes so Sinead didn't take over from Nicky AFAIK.

    No Nicky Byrne definitely presented the votes last year, sadly it wasn't Panti, last year or this.


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  • #42
    AwaitYourReply
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,735 ✭✭✭AwaitYourReply


    KingBrian2 wrote: »
    The public still like to watch it so no keep it on air.

    I don't believe we would have had viewing figures for Eurovision anywhere near as low as this back in the 80s/90s.


  • #43
    AwaitYourReply
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,735 ✭✭✭AwaitYourReply


    An Tarbh wrote: »
    No Nicky Byrne definitely presented the votes last year, sadly it wasn't Panti, last year or this.

    This is what I seem to recall alright.
    Panti was getting quite a lot of TV press from the Same Sex Referendum held 12 months ago so; maybe that's how this was mentioned.


  • #44
    AwaitYourReply
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,735 ✭✭✭AwaitYourReply


    Red Kev wrote: »
    We need a good song and singer; it's as simple as that.

    It has nothing to do with politics, certainly now that the jury vote is involved as well there's no reason to blame "bloc voting". Put up a good, catchy song like Lena in 2011 or Alexander Rybak in 2010 and you have a winner, or damn near it providing you aren't usurped by a Lordi or Conchita Wurst effort. Last years song was good, but probably won on the simple but highly effective visual effects and not a wolf, burning piano or trapeze in sight.

    Some people have said that there's too many countries involved that aren't "European", well it's not about being European, it's about being a member of the EBU, an organisation which is a lot more than just the Eurovision. So instead of complaining about it we just ave to deal with it.

    If it's a case that RTE don't want the gig due to budgetary issues (and it looks like they don't want it) then the government needs to accept that it's a 3 hour free advertisement to Europe, and they should guarantee a certain budget and personnel to cover the costs of it. Either way, RTE need to get the finger out and start to show the competition some effort and respect.

    Well RTÉ have no real cause for worry about the hosting costs as Ireland does not have a strong prospect in the current scheme. I hear what you are saying about the wider EBU but one wonders how some countries particularly Australia across the other side of the world can gain entry to the European Broadcasting Union because allowing countries outside into the EBU seems pointless if it is intended for European broadcasters.

    It's a bit like Australia or Japan joining the EU but you know what nothing would surprise me on that either if it was to happen and then afterwards, people wonder why the institution has radically diluted it's core values and founding principals while still being called the old institution name.


  • #45
    AwaitYourReply
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,735 ✭✭✭AwaitYourReply


    mansize wrote: »
    42 countries.

    I enjoy it. We just need to make more of an effort than send a backing dancer (sitter) from a defunct boyband

    Leaving aside Nicky Byrne, it's a bit more than just the Westlife backing singer this year...There have been a few reasonable efforts (not too many mind you, but a few) - Nothing to show for it since way back in 1996 is hardly all down to this year's entry though to be fair.


  • #46
    AwaitYourReply
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,735 ✭✭✭AwaitYourReply


    lertsnim wrote: »
    Ghastly entry? Oh please. You are coming across as a bit of a musical snob.

    Looking back at just some of the media coverage after they had won and I think you will find it was highly unlikely. People into their style of music did not typically stay in and watch the Eurovision Song Contest to be fair.

    Some media coverage after Lordi won back in 2006:

    http://warp.povusers.org/lordi.html

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/4998186.stm

    http://www.spin.com/2006/05/unlikely-band-wins-eurovision-song-contest/


  • #47
    mansize
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,521 ✭✭✭✭mansize


    AwaitYourReply wrote: »
    Leaving aside Nicky Byrne, it's a bit more than just the Westlife backing singer this year...There have been a few reasonable efforts (not too many mind you, but a few) - Nothing to show for it since way back in 1996 is hardly all down to this year's entry though to be fair.

    France haven't won since 1977!


  • #48
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 20,482 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    mansize wrote: »
    France haven't won since 1977!

    But they insist on singing in French.


  • #49
    patrickmooney
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,032 ✭✭✭patrickmooney


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    But they insist on singing in French.
    With an English chorus (this year).


  • #50
    An Tarbh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 412 ✭✭An Tarbh


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    But they insist on singing in French.

    They've had English songs before.


  • #51
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 20,482 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    An Tarbh wrote: »
    They've had English songs before.

    We are talking 39 years since they last won, so maybe they are getting desperate (as we are) and now trying anything.


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  • #52
    mansize
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,521 ✭✭✭✭mansize


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    But they insist on singing in French.

    Worked for Switzerland (88)


  • #53
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 20,482 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    mansize wrote: »
    Worked for Switzerland (88)

    But what a singer - whatever language.


  • #54
    mansize
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,521 ✭✭✭✭mansize


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6b7BHGkKQA


  • #55
    BuilderPlumber
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,378 ✭✭✭BuilderPlumber


    RTE should withdraw from running the Irish entries for Eurovision because it is now 20 years since we won, 19 years since we came second and you can count on one hand the number of top 10 places we have had since. Most of the last 18 years have seen us near the bottom, at the bottom or not qualifying.

    RTE's poor choice of music and obsession with weak boybands and the worst modern country music is the reason why we have done so badly. These types of music are promoted constantly here and most people here hate them so how would we expect the Germans, Poles, Russians, French, Dutch, Czechs and Serbs to feel any differently!

    It is time for someone who has to link to bad pop bands or even worse 'country' music to have a go at running it for Ireland. That would not include TV3, TG4 or UTV Ireland either as they are up to their neck in that muck as well.


  • #56
    Elmo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    BuilderPlumber wrote: »
    It is time for someone who has to link to bad pop bands or even worse 'country' music to have a go at running it for Ireland. That would not include TV3, TG4 or UTV Ireland either as they are up to their neck in that muck as well.

    Irish TV so!


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