Cyclists should be "taken out and shot"

2RockMountain · 12-05-2016 7:46pm

Roadhawk wrote: »

That was more of an "ideal scenario" comment. I have daily interaction with many topics raised in this thread but my exact practice is not relevant. I dont usually break the urban speed limit although it is terribly annoying and unrealistically slow on some stretches. I have a hands free kit that also shows texts on a heads up display. Pretty neat so i dont need to break the law but dont put me down as a model citizen yet.

Sure, I'm not a model citizen either. But you get my point, I'm sure - which is the hypocrisy of drivers who frequently break the speed limit or worse complaining about cyclists to jump red lights.

Banjoxed · 12-05-2016 8:51pm

prinzeugen wrote: »

There is.. Its the same law that applies to anyone obstructing the flow of traffic. Suggest you read the Road Traffic Act..

The classic case is the tractor driver who caused a 7km tailback. The charge was obstructing traffic.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/district-court/tractor-driver-banned-over-7km-traffic-tailback-1.2177126

I would be surprised if one or two cyclists controlling the traffic lane would be done likewise. Apart from the practicality of any "ban" cyclists are rarely blocking the road long enough to cause such a massive tailback...

Carawaystick · 12-05-2016 9:26pm

But in this case, the cars in the non bus lane are holding up people, not the cyclist

magicbastarder · 12-05-2016 9:44pm

Banjoxed wrote: »

The classic case is the tractor driver who caused a 7km tailback. The charge was obstructing traffic.

i call bollocks on this - i.e. the claim about the size of the tailback.
a 7km tailback with 80-100 vehicles in it implies one vehicle every 80m. at 20km/h?
just looking out my window, i'm watching cars drive past at about 50kph, and there's maybe 3 car lengths between them, so maybe 20m per car.

magicbastarder · 12-05-2016 9:48pm

actually, i do have a vague memory of this, that the garda in question says he travelled 7km between arriving at the back to reaching the front of the queue, which was taken as gospel that this meant the queue was 7km long. and this is the standard of logic being applied in the courts.

cdebru · 12-05-2016 11:04pm

Banjoxed wrote: »

The classic case is the tractor driver who caused a 7km tailback. The charge was obstructing traffic.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/district-court/tractor-driver-banned-over-7km-traffic-tailback-1.2177126

I would be surprised if one or two cyclists controlling the traffic lane would be done likewise. Apart from the practicality of any "ban" cyclists are rarely blocking the road long enough to cause such a massive tailback...

The most important 3 words in that article are Judge Mary Devins, enough said.

prinzeugen · 14-05-2016 12:25am

galwaycyclist wrote: »

Suggest that you read the roads act. This contains a duty on road users to avoid injury and damage to property - including personal property.

Nobody is required to endanger themselves or their property to save someone else a few seconds getting to the next red traffic light.

Edit: Here I dug it out for you.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1993/act/14/section/67/enacted/en/html#sec67

Maybe you should share that with cyclists that remove wing mirrors from cars and in my case a motorbike.

prinzeugen · 14-05-2016 12:28am

Banjoxed wrote: »

The classic case is the tractor driver who caused a 7km tailback. The charge was obstructing traffic.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/district-court/tractor-driver-banned-over-7km-traffic-tailback-1.2177126

I would be surprised if one or two cyclists controlling the traffic lane would be done likewise. Apart from the practicality of any "ban" cyclists are rarely blocking the road long enough to cause such a massive tailback...

Try looking at the tailbacks heading into the mountains from Dublin any sunny evening..

Rockbrook is always a good one. 30+ vehicles stuck behind 2 cyclists going at walking pace up the hill in the middle of the road.

devnull · 14-05-2016 12:14pm

The fact that people are still talking about this topic 15 pages longer shows you that MOL once again is master of free publicity by making deliberately controversial comments

Banjoxed · 14-05-2016 1:06pm

devnull wrote: »

The fact that people are still talking about this topic 15 pages longer shows you that MOL once again is master of free publicity by making deliberately controversial comments

What next, RyanBike? Blue and Yellow bikes for hire across towns and cities?

2RockMountain · 14-05-2016 3:43pm

prinzeugen wrote: »

Try looking at the tailbacks heading into the mountains from Dublin any sunny evening..

Rockbrook is always a good one. 30+ vehicles stuck behind 2 cyclists going at walking pace up the hill in the middle of the road.

Take a picture, my friend. If you can produce a picture or video of 30+ vehicles in a tailback going up Rockbrook, I'll pay €100 to a charity of your choice.

MJohnston · 14-05-2016 7:19pm

prinzeugen wrote: »

Try looking at the tailbacks heading into the mountains from Dublin any sunny evening..

Rockbrook is always a good one. 30+ vehicles stuck behind 2 cyclists going at walking pace up the hill in the middle of the road.

Lazy, sedentary drivers clogging up a lovely bit of countryside with cars, and you're complaining about the 2 cyclists? You're blaming the wrong group

magicbastarder · 14-05-2016 7:42pm

devnull wrote: »

The fact that people are still talking about this topic 15 pages longer shows you that MOL once again is master of free publicity by making deliberately controversial comments

people seem to be talking about cycling rather than where they're flying to with ryanair, though.

Roadhawk · 16-05-2016 3:42pm

Spin 103.8 had an interesting piece earlier at about 13.00. No real stats mentioned but the general consensus was that a crack down was needed on cyclists who break the law. A little more traction and the government might actually do something about it. Good coverage though.

ThisRegard · 16-05-2016 3:46pm

prinzeugen wrote: »

Try looking at the tailbacks heading into the mountains from Dublin any sunny evening..

Rockbrook is always a good one. 30+ vehicles stuck behind 2 cyclists going at walking pace up the hill in the middle of the road.

I was heading north bound into Dublin over the weekend by the time most sensible people are only getting out and about. All the traffic queues travelling to the hotspots were caused by the motorist themselves, Glendalough and Roundwood were nothing but cars, the traffic on the M50 exiting at Bray was backed for a couple of miles, no cyclists causing that, and again backed up a few K around Sandyford, again no cyclists there.

I did encounter many cyclists on my travels on the R roads as one would early on a sunny weekend morning and it must have taken all of what, seconds? to wait for a safe opportunity to overtake.

traprunner · 16-05-2016 3:47pm

Roadhawk wrote: »

Spin 103.8 had an interesting piece earlier at about 13.00. No real stats mentioned but the general consensus was that a crack down was needed on cyclists who break the law. A little more traction and the government might actually do something about it. Good coverage though.

General consensus....hmm. The general consensus without statistical backing sounds like something some of our elected representatives would come out with to justify a silly proposal. I wonder who provided the general consensus...could it be drivers?

I'm sure the general consensus would be that we need 1000's more gardai to enforce all the laws of the land....maybe that's wishful thinking.

traprunner · 16-05-2016 3:50pm

prinzeugen wrote: »

Try looking at the tailbacks heading into the mountains from Dublin any sunny evening..

Rockbrook is always a good one. 30+ vehicles stuck behind 2 cyclists going at walking pace up the hill in the middle of the road.

I was up in the mountains on Saturday. I got caught in traffic. No bicycles involved. It was cars. Then I met a number of pedestrians that insisted on standing in the middle of the road. Oh, I can't forget the motorcyclist who was half a second from coming through my front windscreen while he was cutting a blind bend. That would have caused some tailback but still wouldn't have involved an unmotorised bicycle.

MJohnston · 16-05-2016 4:23pm

Roadhawk wrote: »

Spin 103.8 had an interesting piece earlier at about 13.00. No real stats mentioned but the general consensus was that a crack down was needed on cyclists who break the law. A little more traction and the government might actually do something about it. Good coverage though.

Radio station has piece on 'cracking down on cyclists' - asks people who think there should be a crack down on cyclists to call in, and surprise, surprise, people phone in with that view. This happens all the time - you'll see the red top tabloids do it frequently and get caught out on Twitter - it goes well beyond confirmation bias into something far more sinister.

The reason we have government in general is because the 'consensus view' is typically misinformed, ignorant, or just intentionally wrong. That said, the one correct part of your post surmises that more 'consensus views' and the government would do something. That's about the only way the Irish government operates these days, populist vote chasers.

Roadhawk · 16-05-2016 4:36pm

MJohnston wrote: »

Radio station has piece on 'cracking down on cyclists' - asks people who think there should be a crack down on cyclists to call in, and surprise, surprise, people phone in with that view. This happens all the time - you'll see the red top tabloids do it frequently and get caught out on Twitter - it goes well beyond confirmation bias into something far more sinister.

The reason we have government in general is because the 'consensus view' is typically misinformed, ignorant, or just intentionally wrong. That said, the one correct part of your post surmises that more 'consensus views' and the government would do something. That's about the only way the Irish government operates these days, populist vote chasers.

I suppose the majority lunch-time audience are more than likely motorist driving somewhere for food but it still highlights whats going on with cyclists around the city. I mean i dont see any homeless or housing issues where i live but im well aware that there is a massive issue with them.

Cyclists have a chance now more than ever to go backwards and reduce motorist on the irish roads. Sure the new minister of transport doesnt even know the extent of his powers. What wally voted for this lad.

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/new-minister-for-transport-promises-significant-dail-reform-734068.html

At least we agree that irish politics is a joke.

MJohnston · 16-05-2016 4:51pm

Roadhawk wrote: »

I suppose the majority lunch-time audience are more than likely motorist driving somewhere for food but it still highlights whats going on with cyclists around the city. I mean i dont see any homeless or housing issues where i live but im well aware that there is a massive issue with them.

The majority of ANY audience will be motorists. The last study I can find (From 2014) shows 33% car commuters in Dublin vs 5% cyclists.

And when you take into account how easily people (like yourself, sorry) are led along by anecdote and hearsay, it's not surprising then that the 'general consensus' would end up vilifying cyclists.

We need to get realistic here, let's go back to the original topic, which is MOL's comments. Car drivers get annoyed at cyclists for the perception that everything taken away from the car is being given over to the cyclists. This is utter nonsense, for one thing, the clear intention of every recent policy has been to degrade car access to the benefit of public transport and pedestrians.

College Green plaza? Public Transport and pedestrian focused. Very little cyclist consideration involved.
Quays/O'Connell Bridge plans? Public transport first and foremost. Cyclists given some considerationbecause of the space freed up by the focus on PT.
Liffey Quays greenway? Abandoned because it negatively impacted Public Transport.

Pedestrians *might* have some claim to the idea that they're being sidelined in favour of cyclists, but only because most cycling infrastructure reduces the space available to peds, not to cars.

Secondly, you can get rid of every cyclist in Dublin and those policies will still be there (in fact, they'll be even stronger because traffic will be worse and more former cyclists will be using PT). So the clear outlook is that driving a car into Dublin city centre is going to suck, and it's going to get suckier over the next few years. Absolutely none of this is the fault of the cyclist, so drivers would do well to correctly direct their bitterness.

The other thing to be realistic about is the fact that private cars shouldn't be commuting in Dublin CC. They're inefficient, polluting, dangerous, and take up way too much space for the service they offer. Drivers have to realise this, and when they do, they'll know the real reason that they're being targeted with reduced access has absolutely nothing to do with cyclists.

Roadhawk · 16-05-2016 5:37pm

MJohnston wrote: »

The majority of ANY audience will be motorists. The last study I can find (From 2014) shows 33% car commuters in Dublin vs 5% cyclists.

And when you take into account how easily people (like yourself, sorry) are led along by anecdote and hearsay, it's not surprising then that the 'general consensus' would end up vilifying cyclists.

We need to get realistic here, let's go back to the original topic, which is MOL's comments. Car drivers get annoyed at cyclists for the perception that everything taken away from the car is being given over to the cyclists. This is utter nonsense, for one thing, the clear intention of every recent policy has been to degrade car access to the benefit of public transport and pedestrians.

College Green plaza? Public Transport and pedestrian focused. Very little cyclist consideration involved.
Quays/O'Connell Bridge plans? Public transport first and foremost. Cyclists given some considerationbecause of the space freed up by the focus on PT.
Liffey Quays greenway? Abandoned because it negatively impacted Public Transport.

Pedestrians *might* have some claim to the idea that they're being sidelined in favour of cyclists, but only because most cycling infrastructure reduces the space available to peds, not to cars.

Secondly, you can get rid of every cyclist in Dublin and those policies will still be there (in fact, they'll be even stronger because traffic will be worse and more former cyclists will be using PT). So the clear outlook is that driving a car into Dublin city centre is going to suck, and it's going to get suckier over the next few years. Absolutely none of this is the fault of the cyclist, so drivers would do well to correctly direct their bitterness.

The other thing to be realistic about is the fact that private cars shouldn't be commuting in Dublin CC. They're inefficient, polluting, dangerous, and take up way too much space for the service they offer. Drivers have to realise this, and when they do, they'll know the real reason that they're being targeted with reduced access has absolutely nothing to do with cyclists.

We gone completely off topic.

However my vilifying cyclists is not a bias. I used to commute in and out of DCC daily for 2 years. I am aware of the dangers they face and aware of the danger they put themselves in.

MOL is right in my opinion, there is an emphasis on reducing the private car traffic in DCC and a mass promotion on public transport and cycling. Next step will be congestion charges or a city tax. It is a complete backward comment to suggest banning private vehicles from DCC completely. Sounds like something a blow-in would say.

MJohnston · 16-05-2016 6:19pm

Roadhawk wrote: »

However my vilifying cyclists is not a bias.

It absolutely is. You have argued in the face of factual evidence with nothing other than opinion.

MOL is right in my opinion, there is an emphasis on reducing the private car traffic in DCC and a mass promotion on public transport and cycling. Next step will be congestion charges or a city tax. It is a complete backward comment to suggest banning private vehicles from DCC completely. Sounds like something a blow-in would say.

And yet, it's something that DCC have consistently been pursuing for years now - is the council full of blow-ins too? Did London fall apart due to Congestion Charges? Nope and nope.

Private car traffic is undeniably and scientifically unsustainable, and only a massively right-wing government out to deliberately sabotage environmental progress would try to promote otherwise. The only progressive view is to reduce reliance upon private vehicles in city centres. And the only real alternative you can offer to that is Public Transport (and by the way this is NOT off-topic, because it's directly addressing MOL's comments).

By the way, the next step isn't congestion charges, it's the College Green plaza and the Batchelor's Walk public transport plan. Private car usage in CC in 5 years time will be deeply unpleasant (as if it isn't already), very much downgraded, and very much intentionally so on both counts.

magicbastarder · 16-05-2016 10:39pm

Roadhawk wrote: »

Cyclists have a chance now more than ever to go backwards

and there's you on the other hand complaining cyclists should be safer. how are you meant to pedal backwards unless you've a fixie and a neck like megan from the exorcist?

cdebru · 17-05-2016 9:55am

Roadhawk wrote: »

We gone completely off topic.

However my vilifying cyclists is not a bias. I used to commute in and out of DCC daily for 2 years. I am aware of the dangers they face and aware of the danger they put themselves in.

MOL is right in my opinion, there is an emphasis on reducing the private car traffic in DCC and a mass promotion on public transport and cycling. Next step will be congestion charges or a city tax. It is a complete backward comment to suggest banning private vehicles from DCC completely. Sounds like something a blow-in would say.

It is a completely backward step to think everyone can drive their own private car and be able to conveniently park it close to their destination, the city centre simply does not have the space to accommodate everyone who needs to go there in a private car. Only about 20% of the daily commute across the canals are by private car, it makes zero sense to allow them to take up so much space and delay and discommode the vast majority who use public transport, cycle or walk.

Hellrun · 17-05-2016 10:00am

We should start with bad drivers first. If there are any bullets left then we can move on to bad cyclists. There are some good ones out there, as much as a surprise as that might come to people.

2RockMountain · 17-05-2016 10:04am

MJohnston wrote: »

Private car traffic is undeniably and scientifically unsustainable, and only a massively right-wing government out to deliberately sabotage environmental progress would try to promote otherwise.

Uh-oh!

Roadhawk · 17-05-2016 11:28am

magicbastarder wrote: »

and there's you on the other hand complaining cyclists should be safer. how are you meant to pedal backwards unless you've a fixie and a neck like megan from the exorcist?

If you choose to partially select a quote from my post and change its context of course you are going perceive it as something different...

Roadhawk · 17-05-2016 11:29am

2RockMountain wrote: »

Uh-oh!

Great bunch bar one or two

MJohnston · 17-05-2016 11:41am

Roadhawk wrote: »

If you choose to partially select a quote from my post and change its context of course you are going perceive it as something different...

Ironic...

MJohnston · 17-05-2016 11:41am

2RockMountain wrote: »

Uh-oh!

Nah, there's nothing in Ireland that measures up the right-wingedness I'm referring to.

Cyclists should be "taken out and shot"

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