Problem with engine re-build on Subaru legacy

selous · 16-02-2016 09:46PM

I'm going down to them on Thursday, then email Subaru, then I think it is time for a legal chat see what the right way to go is, it just stinks now.

dr.fuzzenstein · 05-05-2016 10:41AM

Any update on this saga?

selous · 05-05-2016 06:20PM

The saga is continuing, they cant find whats wrong with it,
Done full diagnostics when its cold, injector spray pattern etc, nothing.
I warmed it up for them, drove it for 70min, they plugged straight onto diagnostics without turning it off, nothing showed, when they turned it off and restarted it, it started first time, so whether the idling for 20-30mins while diagnostics was been done does something,(cooled down) I don't know. it's been in 3 times now for a week at a time, I'm no better off they're no wiser, It's a niggle, but it wasn't there before the engine broke, and not what I want after paying what I paid for the fix.

06-05-2016 11:14AM

Next cause of action I would do is to data log constantly until the starting problem happens again. Then examine the sensor data to see which signal is missing or implausible when the car fails to start.

Get a 10 quid bluetooth OBD-II dongle from ebay and use for example OBD Fusion app on android to log the data.

ABC101 · 06-05-2016 12:03PM

Very sorry to hear about your issues OP.

Subaru make great cars, with great petrol engines.... but the diesels are best to be avoided. I would suggest it may be better to trade your car in for something else... perhaps a Honda or Skoda, or a petrol Scooby.?

Sometimes you might be better to just cut your losses rather than get into a legal argument. It might suit the garage too.... if they are so insistent that there is no issue with restarting the car, then they should have no trouble with taking it as a trade in against a different brand.

I found this site here, describing different Subaru engines which I thought was most informative..

http://www.subaru.com.au/subaru-dna/subaru-engine-range

Specifically mentions the features of each engine, with the diesel not being suitable for short runs.

Most interestingly.... the new petrol Engine....FB4... 2 litre, non turbo long stroke is giving good economy... .around 42 MPG (which in real world is about 37?). So you would probably be much better off staying with a petrol engine.

With regard to the Crankshaft failures.... seems to be a common enough occurrence. It would appear Subaru are blaming lube oil starvation to the crank (caused by dirty fuel, sludgeing up the sump and starving the L.O. pump. However... if L.O. is not supplied to the engine, all sorts of problems occur, notably white metal bearing failures, scored cylinder liners, broken piston rings, camshaft damage etc. Any running surface will be damaged.

But on checking the www / Your tube videos / various facebook pages of broken crankshafts, the crankshaft is breaking on a non running surface i.e. where two crankwebs meet.

I do find this puzzling... why are Subaru blaming poor L.O. supply, when the part that is breaking... is not designed to be lubricated. i.e. it is a non running part of the crankshaft, that is to say crankwebs do not have running surfaces. Crankpins, and bearing journal surfaces require L.O. but not crankwebs.

I'd buy a Subaru no probs.... but not diesel. Better off with a Dacia Duster or something.

monkeysnapper · 06-05-2016 01:59PM

In regard to what the previous poster said, I'd love to see what garage would offer you to trade in this car .

selous · 06-05-2016 08:06PM

samih wrote: »

Next cause of action I would do is to data log constantly until the starting problem happens again. Then examine the sensor data to see which signal is missing or implausible when the car fails to start.

Get a 10 quid bluetooth OBD-II dongle from ebay and use for example OBD Fusion app on android to log the data.

Happens every time I drive to work from home and vice versa, an hour each way, Why the garage hasn't done a drive for an hour, I don't know.

selous · 06-05-2016 08:18PM

ABC101 wrote: »

Very sorry to hear about your issues OP.

Specifically mentions the features of each engine, with the diesel not being suitable for short runs.

Most interestingly.... the new petrol Engine....FB4... 2 litre, non turbo long stroke is giving good economy... .around 42 MPG (which in real world is about 37?). So you would probably be much better off staying with a petrol engine.

With regard to the Crankshaft failures.... seems to be a common enough occurrence. It would appear Subaru are blaming lube oil starvation to the crank (caused by dirty fuel, sludgeing up the sump and starving the L.O. pump. However... if L.O. is not supplied to the engine, all sorts of problems occur, notably white metal bearing failures, scored cylinder liners, broken piston rings, camshaft damage etc. Any running surface will be damaged.

But on checking the www / Your tube videos / various facebook pages of broken crankshafts, the crankshaft is breaking on a non running surface i.e. where two crankwebs meet.

I do find this puzzling... why are Subaru blaming poor L.O. supply, when the part that is breaking... is not designed to be lubricated. i.e. it is a non running part of the crankshaft, that is to say crankwebs do not have running surfaces. Crankpins, and bearing journal surfaces require L.O. but not crankwebs.

I'd buy a Subaru no probs.... but not diesel. Better off with a Dacia Duster or something.

I do long journey, almost 90km each way home-work-home so not too short and knocking out 5.5-6L /100km (45+mpg) im happy with that.
I had a service on mine 2 months/5k km before it broke, I bought the car because of the reputation the build had, was I left with egg on my face, in the 7yr I had it only a brake bulb went on it, then that.
They don't have any car I like, But maybe they could source a car I do like and take it as a trade in, eh?

ml100 · 07-05-2016 12:43AM

I had a similar problem with a diesel golf, would start first time in the morning no matter what the temperature, but after an hour drive on a motorway it would take ages to start, turns out the starter had slowed down and the ecu wouldn't inject the diesel when it was hot as the engine wasn't turning over fast enough, got a new starter and that solved the problem.

jca · 07-05-2016 03:15AM

They aren't an engine I've ever even looked at but do they have a butterfly in the manifold that closes when the engine is stopping, an anti shudder device of sorts. Maybe this butterfly is sticking shut when the engine is hot preventing it from starting.

ABC101 · 07-05-2016 02:24PM

selous wrote: »

I do long journey, almost 90km each way home-work-home so not too short and knocking out 5.5-6L /100km (45+mpg) im happy with that.
I had a service on mine 2 months/5k km before it broke, I bought the car because of the reputation the build had, was I left with egg on my face, in the 7yr I had it only a brake bulb went on it, then that.
They don't have any car I like, But maybe they could source a car I do like and take it as a trade in, eh?

Well... on the positive side.... in the 7 years (which is a long time to hold a car IMO) you have made a saving on your 180Km daily commute. In addition you have made a further saving on running a Subaru which are well known for reliability. Only having to replace a light bulb..... well you canna get better than that now can you?

The Legacy is a lovely car. It sounds like your garage has tried to save you money in the rebuild. But unfortunately there is still an issue left. Subaru spare parts IMO are expensive, one of the downsides in owning a Subaru, certainly would never be as cheap as a Ford.

On another point about Subaru Diesel Crankshaft failures, if it really was the case that it is a fuel quality issue...... then how come the other manufacturers of diesel engines are not suffering Crank failures as well?

Mercedes, BMW, Skoda, Volkswagen..... no crankshaft failures in their diesels.... and they are burning the same fuel as the Subaru diesels.

selous · 07-05-2016 03:38PM

ml100 wrote: »

I had a similar problem with a diesel golf, would start first time in the morning no matter what the temperature, but after an hour drive on a motorway it would take ages to start, turns out the starter had slowed down and the ecu wouldn't inject the diesel when it was hot as the engine wasn't turning over fast enough, got a new starter and that solved the problem.

Interesting, this is only since the rebuild though, could be a coincidence, almost everything else is new,

jca wrote: »

They aren't an engine I've ever even looked at but do they have a butterfly in the manifold that closes when the engine is stopping, an anti shudder device of sorts. Maybe this butterfly is sticking shut when the engine is hot preventing it from starting.

To be honest, I haven't a clue, this is one engine I haven't looked at to much at all, everything is well hidden, and not a thing I'm going messing with, tooo technical.

ABC101 wrote: »

Well... on the positive side.... in the 7 years (which is a long time to hold a car IMO) you have made a saving on your 180Km daily commute. In addition you have made a further saving on running a Subaru which are well known for reliability. Only having to replace a light bulb..... well you canna get better than that now can you?

The Legacy is a lovely car. It sounds like your garage has tried to save you money in the rebuild. But unfortunately there is still an issue left. Subaru spare parts IMO are expensive, one of the downsides in owning a Subaru, certainly would never be as cheap as a Ford.

On another point about Subaru Diesel Crankshaft failures, if it really was the case that it is a fuel quality issue...... then how come the other manufacturers of diesel engines are not suffering Crank failures as well?

Mercedes, BMW, Skoda, Volkswagen..... no crankshaft failures in their diesels.... and they are burning the same fuel as the Subaru diesels.

The downside was the 2-3 services a year, as you say, parts/services are pricey, the 60k-km one is a beaut, all transmission fluids etc are done, but it's the only time it seen a garage, that's why I got the rebuild, any other car I probably would have let go,
I have asked that question too, why isn't every other car brand having the same trouble, as we all use the same diesel, some cars with 2-300,000 km on them and still firing away, It was Subarus first toe dip into the diesel market I suppose, but how tested was it, as mine isn't the only one to break down.

selous · 12-07-2016 03:21PM

6 months now since I brought the problem to attention of garage and Subaru Ireland, It still has the problem, but in that time they have
Done full Hot/cold diagnostics
Replaced crankshaft sensor
Replaced the fly wheel
Tried a different starting motor
Replaced EGR valve, old one wasn't closing, but it made no difference to the problem, so it was changed back (foc)

I'm now waiting for them to call as they're going to change the ignition switch, to see if that's it,
The car will start if you keep the key turned longer than is normal, could it be the problem, but why only when it's at full temperature?

They are trying, but 6 months.

monkeysnapper · 12-07-2016 07:24PM

Jeeez . this still going on for you, followed this from start.

Its like an episode of aircraft investigation.

gctest50 · 12-07-2016 07:50PM

selous wrote: »

..............
The car will start if you keep the key turned longer than is normal, could it be the problem, but why only when it's at full temperature?
.................

Go low-tech on it

Get a good volt-meter and a oscilloscope and a pressure gauge for the fuel rail

Connect one channel of the scope to one of the injectors and the other to the crankshaft sensor and see what it's doing

when cranking cold ( when it starts first go)
and cranking hot ( when it doesn't )

Connect up the pressure gauge to the fuel rail and see what it's doing

when cranking cold ( when it starts first go)
and cranking hot ( when it doesn't )

selous · 12-07-2016 09:19PM

It's not something i'd be capable of doing, I wouldn't interfere with it at all,
I was going to put a recording of it "not catching" here but too big a file, only pic's it seems,

They said they'll ring me when they get the next part to try, (almost two weeks now)

Delol · 02-11-2016 09:57PM

Just bought a beautiful legacy estate and two weeks in I heard a noise while on the m50 and then it came to a halt . I've been told its the crankshaft . The guy that sold it to me is after finding one in Lithuania for 1600Euro he's willing to give me 600 towards the rebuild Subaru won't look at it because no full service history . I feel like I've just thrown the 8000 Euro that I paid for the car out the window . Any suggestions would be appreciated anything that might help thank you

selous · 04-11-2016 10:28PM

If you only had it 2 weeks, Consumer rights should help you or the SIMI, I think that would be your best bet, any sold on car should last more than 2 weeks, dealer or private.
Hope you get something sorted, these engines are not cheap to get or fix.

Colser · 04-11-2016 10:44PM

Who told you it was the crankshaft?

Delol · 09-11-2016 10:17PM

hi sorry for the late reply had trouble signing in. I asked the guy i bought the car from who owns a crash repairs place to sort it as we had a verbal 12 month garauntee agreement . he arranged to have the car collected and brought to a garage that he said has done some work for him before. I have tried to get in touch with him and find out the name of the garage so i can speak with them directly but it is not easy .
the last time i spoke with him he told me he had sourced the parts and would need 1100 euro for them and that he was only willing to put 500 towards the repair costs. I figured this is still cheap considering the costs i have seen for this type of repair online.
I am starting to get worried i am being played and plan to drive to mullingar tomorrow and visit the garage without his knowledge.
I rang the guy who towed it there and he has giving me directions .
Hopefully i am just being paranoid

selous · 11-11-2016 06:30PM

Its E4500 for a new short motor for the 08-10 diesel that's not including labour, so I was told.
E8-9000 for a main dealer to fix it you'll only save on labour with another garage, probably need a clutch and flywheel too,

I had a full service history on mine, it still broke. looking at U.K sites they seem to fix them free over there if you have a full service history, but not here.

Best of luck to you though.

selous · 11-11-2016 06:30PM

Its E4500 for a new short motor for the 08-10 diesel that's not including labour, so I was told.
E8-9000 for a main dealer to fix it you'll only save on labour with another garage, probably need a clutch and flywheel too,

I had a full service history on mine, it still broke. looking at U.K sites they seem to fix them free over there if you have a full service history, but not here.

Best of luck to you though.

Delol · 12-11-2016 01:23PM

I viewed the damage yesterday ,broke crankshaft and looks like it pulled the threads out of the short block too. Paid for the new parts 1600 for the new shaft and block sourced from Lithuania. About another grand for labour . I'll let you know when the repair is complete . I think the guy who sold it to me knew . The car has a brand new clutch and flywheel on it but the seller never mentioned this so was in and around the that area . Does anyone K of if it's possible that he could have known it was about to go ?

Colser · 12-11-2016 02:20PM

Was it a private sale?It's a common fault so did you get a mechanic to look at it before you bought it?

Delol · 12-11-2016 02:50PM

Yeah private sale and yes I got a mechanic to look it over he fou d some rust and an oil leak . The guy I bought it from said he would treat the rust and have the leak repaired . He said the leak was from the turbo and that he had it replaced recently and it was from the gasket on the turbo .needless to say I was due to bring the car back on the Wednesday because the oil was still leaking but the crankshaft broke on the Monday on my way home from work . I'm going to let the car get repaired because the mechanic doing it is connected somehow to the guy that sold it to me . I don't want to piss either of them off yet Co sobering I'm reliant on the car being fixed . I am considering taking g him to the small claims court for 2000 Euro expenses when it is fixed

Colser · 12-11-2016 03:00PM

That's a horrible thing to happen to you OP.Have you tried talking to him about it or would that be a waste of time?The mechanic is probably the one who worked on the car previously so would have known about the issue if the seller did...is it wise to let him do the repair?

jca · 12-11-2016 03:45PM

Is the new flywheel a proper dual mass flywheel? If it's a solid conversion ditch it and get the proper setup. It's a terrible situation to be in op, but if it was me I'd take the hit, get a €350 banger and walk away. This car is going to break your heart and your wallet.

selous · 14-11-2016 06:33PM

If you're getting a crankshaft from Lithuania you're probably getting the same weak euro4 one that broke on you in this car and the replacement could snap too.
The part I got in mine is the euro5 one it's stronger, but it was supplied to me free but it cost about E4.5k (as a complete unit as a short motor) There was a guy on here saying they seem to pop at 150.000km, he was spot on with the mileage on mine.
I loved my car, got it rebuilt by Subaru, but...I should have let it go before I done it.

As JCA said.....RUN,

Delol · 16-11-2016 08:48PM

Yeah it's the Euro 5 upgrade that's being installed . I am hoping that the car is OK after the work is done . The flywheel is a dual mass BTW. The parts should be here Friday and I have been told it will take about 4 days after this for the work to be completed . If it all goes well I think I will wait to save a bit of money and just trade it in against a slightly newer smaller car and give that to my wife . Fingers crossed I get lucky . The mechanic has said that the rest of the engine is OK . After this work is done it should be in good condition considering it will have a new turbo replaced last year relatively new clutch and fly wheel . Timing chain has been done and a new crankshaft / short block . Along with new head gasket . Like I said fingers crossed

selous · 30-12-2016 06:57PM

Well Delol how did you get on with your engine,

There's 3 more, 2have been repaired one still broken, to think I was told it was because the fuel I used didn't have enough lubricating properties that fouled the injectors that caused mine to go, they all must be using the same brand diesel.

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Problem with engine re-build on Subaru legacy

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