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General Rugby Discussion

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  • #5372
    Zzippy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,166 ✭✭✭✭Zzippy


    TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »
    If we want to be very specific about it he was British, as we all were at the time. :eek:

    In the same way Ulster players who play for Ireland can also claim British nationality, it's true but completely irrelevant.


  • #5373
    TICKLE_ME_ELMO
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 23,997 Mod ✭✭✭✭TICKLE_ME_ELMO


    Zzippy wrote: »
    In the same way Ulster players who play for Ireland can also claim British nationality, it's true but completely irrelevant.

    I was referring to the rest of the conversation and people getting their knickers in a twist about where people are or aren't from.

    I think we all got out of the bed on the wrong side today. :(


  • #5374
    Buer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,258 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »
    Fair enough they're not actually "poaching" them for the All Black's but there's been a few lads brought over to schools on scholarships and I remember reading about a few clubs that say they wouldn't survive without their pacific island players.

    Then again it is a mutual thing. It's not like there's some child snatchers working for the All Blacks creeping around the islands at night.

    There are a few. The vast majority of islanders who play rugby in NZ moved there with their families for economic reasons when younger. A literal handful are given scholarships when teenagers. I'm not sure if any of them have been capped (Sivivatu was one, perhaps?).

    I'd be curious to see which clubs couldn't survive without their PI players given that there are fairly strict regulations around NZ teams having foreign players in their set up.

    The thing that often gets overlooked is the fact that the island nations benefit far, far more from NZ players appearing for them than the other way around.


  • #5375
    CatFromHue
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,299 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatFromHue


    swiwi_ wrote: »

    As an aside it amazes me that seemingly educated posters like tickle me assume anyone with a brown skin and a heap of syllables in their name must have been born in the islands. Latent racism I suppose.

    I think that's a bit harsh and misuse of the R word.

    There are a few guys who fit your description that have been born outside NZ, and then moved to NZ when they were young for economic reasons, even the guys that would be NZ born to Islander Parents do have a strong link to the Islands. Isn't Victor Vito a High Chief in Samoa or something?

    It's an easy mistake to make, and not always a mistake either, that has nothing to do with racism.


  • #5376
    TICKLE_ME_ELMO
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 23,997 Mod ✭✭✭✭TICKLE_ME_ELMO


    Buer wrote: »
    There are a few. The vast majority of islanders who play rugby in NZ moved there with their families for economic reasons when younger. A literal handful are given scholarships when teenagers. I'm not sure if any of them have been capped (Sivivatu was one, perhaps?).

    I'd be curious to see which clubs couldn't survive without their PI players given that there are fairly strict regulations around NZ teams having foreign players in their set up.

    The thing that often gets overlooked is the fact that the island nations benefit far, far more from NZ players appearing for them than the other way around.

    Naholo and Fekitoa both went to NZL on school scholarships.

    I can't remember which clubs were mentioned but they were talking on a local level rather than Super Rugby.

    I do remember reading around the WC about the exploitation of Island players by some rugby nations. I think it was in the Guardian. I think France were the main culprits, of actually targeting players and then exploiting them.

    There is obviously a difference between people moving to NZL when their kids are young and those kids growing up to represent NZL and a team scouting other countries for talent. Ireland is still relatively new to being a country people emigrate to rather than from. I'm sure in a decade or so we'll have much less pale international teams and it won't be a case of us having nicked the players from elsewhere.


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  • #5377
    TICKLE_ME_ELMO
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 23,997 Mod ✭✭✭✭TICKLE_ME_ELMO


    Not sure how credible this site is but here the stuff about Islanders at club level....
    But what of the dozens of other Pacific Island players slugging away at club and Heartland level? They are spread far and wide and are becoming essential to the survival of grassroots rugby.
    Ten years ago it would have been rare to see a Pacific Island rugby player in the provincial South Island – now southern clubs can't get by without them.
    Warren Bloxsom, manager of Oamaru Old Boys premier team, said: "About three quarters of the team are Island players. We're in a six team competition, if we didn't have them we'd be lucky to have three teams."
    Many club players have gone on to represent North Otago, which had no fewer than seven Pacific players last season, plus several from England.
    Whanganui is another provincial side that has done well thanks to its Island players, winning the Heartland championship last year with help from five flying Fijians.
    Coach Jason Caskey said several of the players were brought out by local clubs looking to strengthen their ranks.
    "We had a problem with a couple of them this year getting jobs at the meatworks and places like that, their visas wouldn't allow them to do that. It's a bit of a tricky one.
    "A couple of them worked at the freezing works but they only did a day and got told unless they could change their visas they couldn't employ them. They've got to be able to survive, it becomes the club's responsibility I suppose, it makes it a little bit harder."


    And just to be clear I am fully aware this is a completely different issue to professional/international teams doing it.


  • #5378
    TICKLE_ME_ELMO
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 23,997 Mod ✭✭✭✭TICKLE_ME_ELMO


    Also, for what it's worth, Australia have a fair few "brown" players and I'm 99% sure Beale is the only indigenous Australian involved there. Would be interesting to see which side has had more Pacific Islanders involved over the last few years. I'd assume they come about their players the same way NZL do.


  • #5379
    Buer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,258 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »
    Naholo and Fekitoa both went to NZL on school scholarships.

    The Naholo scholarship has been denied. He went to NZ to live with his uncle who had been a professional rugby player himself.

    Fekitoa did get a scholarship from one of the best known rugby schools in NZ but, by his own admission, he approached them himself to request a scholarship.


  • #5380
    Buer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,258 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    Great start from Racing. Rokocoko showing he still has some talent about him after arsing about for the last few years. Leicester will need to get an early reply. Racing have the pack and breakdown ability to close this game out if they get out ahead in the first half.


  • #5381
    errlloyd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,633 ✭✭✭✭errlloyd


    Bars can't show sports in Stansted apparently. :(


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  • #5382
    TICKLE_ME_ELMO
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 23,997 Mod ✭✭✭✭TICKLE_ME_ELMO


    Is Leicester near Nottingham?

    EDIT: Yes. Yes it is.


  • #5383
    Buer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,258 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »
    Is Leicester near Nottingham?

    About 30 miles.


  • #5384
    ThisRegard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,833 ✭✭✭✭ThisRegard


    What's the deal with highlights of this weekends games anywhere? TG4 used to have cup highlights but none this weekend.


  • #5385
    Yeah_Right
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,188 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right


    The big difference between the foreigners playing for NZ and Ireland is the NZRU hasn't targeted adult players to move, get residency and then represent NZ.

    A lot of the NZ boarding schools would offer scholarships to students from the Islands and from small country towns in NZ. Sivivatu got one when he was 15, Fekitoa got one as well (that he asked and then trialled for). Nathan Hughes was another.

    A lot of amateur clubs would recruit players from the islands. Usually it would be with offers of accommodation and a job. I believe Naholo was like this. Moved to live with his uncle, worked in the freezing works, played for an amateur club in Wanganui. He turned out to be pretty good and worked his way up. I've had a few mates who went through something similar here in Ireland. They came over to play AIL, got a bit coin, a place to live and a job. One of them then got a Leinster contract. If he'd played for Ireland, I wouldn't have said he was poached.


  • #5386
    CMOTDibbler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,732 ✭✭✭CMOTDibbler


    Meanwhile in other rugby news, Racing 92 are leading Leicester by 10-0. Machenaud with an early try and Carter with the rest. 20 minutes gone.


  • #5387
    thomond2006
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    A Racing-Saracens final would be lucky to get 30k at the final IMO. Racing haven't a big fanbase either and don't sell out their home games despite having a box office star at 10.


  • #5388
    TICKLE_ME_ELMO
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 23,997 Mod ✭✭✭✭TICKLE_ME_ELMO


    thomond2006 wrote: »
    A Racing-Saracens final would be lucky to get 30k at the final IMO. Racing haven't a big fanbase either and don't sell out their home games despite having a box office star at 10.

    Are either of the English sides likely to travel in large numbers to Lyon?


  • #5389
    thomond2006
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »
    Are either of the English sides likely to travel in large numbers to Lyon?

    I'd like to think Leicester would bring at least a few thousand. Also the two week gap between the semi-final and final is going to have big effect on attendances once again IMO. I think from next season it's going back to three week gaps, it couldn't be done this year due to RWC.


  • #5390
    CMOTDibbler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,732 ✭✭✭CMOTDibbler


    TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »
    Are either of the English sides likely to travel in large numbers to Lyon?
    Not even getting the crowds for both home semis.
    Telegraph live blog wrote:
    Both sides come out to a loud roar, from a less than impressive crowd (in terms of numbers). We are minutes from kick off. Racing 92 to kick to the Tigers.

    And Leicester get three points back. Leicester 3-10 Racing 92.


  • #5391
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Leicester fans are good travelllers


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  • #5392
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Austin healy advocating cheating


  • #5393
    thomond2006
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    Did Austin Healey just say that?!


  • #5394
    DGRulz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,232 ✭✭✭DGRulz


    Wasps fans have a petition to get Barnes fired and Austin Healy just said THAT ...


  • #5395
    Adbrowne
    Site Banned Posts: 2,055 ✭✭✭Adbrowne


    this is a semi final of the european cup. the amount of criticism the pro12 gets but this is awful for the most part. error after error


  • #5396
    Adbrowne
    Site Banned Posts: 2,055 ✭✭✭Adbrowne


    DGRulz wrote: »
    Wasps fans have a petition to get Barnes fired

    what?


  • #5397
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    DGRulz wrote: »
    Wasps fans have a petition to get Barnes fired and Austin Healy just said THAT ...

    Big difference though in that Stuart Barnes is incompetent, Healy does it on purpose!


  • #5398
    RedemptionZ
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,758 ✭✭✭RedemptionZ


    What did Austin Healy say? Had the commentary muted


  • #5399
    Adbrowne
    Site Banned Posts: 2,055 ✭✭✭Adbrowne


    RedemptionZ wrote: »
    What did Austin Healy say? Had the commentary muted

    tigers player is injured but should feign a HIA cos it is close to half time so use the time to try and get him right.


  • #5400
    Bazzo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,047 ✭✭✭Bazzo


    RedemptionZ wrote: »
    What did Austin Healy say? Had the commentary muted

    Suggested pretending Burns had a head injury to get him off for 10 mins to strap his ankle and give him pain killers


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  • #5401
    TICKLE_ME_ELMO
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 23,997 Mod ✭✭✭✭TICKLE_ME_ELMO


    Bazzo wrote: »
    Suggested pretending Burns had a head injury to get him off for 10 mins to strap his ankle and give him pain killers

    Nonsense. Just give him a blood capsule to chew on.


This discussion has been closed.
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