Garage changed discs without notification

Deepman · 16-04-2016 02:28PM #1

Just left my Car ( BMW ( 5 series) in for pads to be replaced but was annoyed that Discs were automatically replaced as well with job costing almost 400 Euros FOR JUST THE REAR ONES !!!!! I was advised that legal minimum for disc width/thickness is 22mm's and that my rear ones were down to 19mm's. As I did not see them I was having to take Garage's word for it which I hate to do as I know the staff are under instructions to replace EVERYTHING they can. Any views on this ? (My front pads are getting close to replacement in another 5 000 miles so I don't want to be gouged again for more disc replacements when its unecessary .

coylemj · 16-04-2016 02:34PM

Deepman wrote: »

Just left my Car ( BMW ( 5 series) in for pads to be replaced but was annoyed that Discs were automatically replaced as well with job costing almost 400 Euros FOR JUST THE REAR ONES !!!!! I was advised that legal minimum for disc width/thickness is 22mm's and that my rear ones were down to 19mm's. As I did not see them I was having to take Garage's word for it which I hate to do as I know the staff are under instructions to replace EVERYTHING they can...

By any chance was that place part of a chain that sells tyres? I seriously doubt that there is a single 'legal minimum' for brake discs on any model of car, if there was it would be specified as a failure criteria in the NCT and there is no such specification.

In the NCT manual, the only failure criteria for brake discs is: 'Missing, contaminated, obviously damaged, askew or insecure'. If there was a legal minimum thickness for the discs it would surely be specified there and it is not.

Tigger · 16-04-2016 02:36PM

coylemj wrote: »

By any chance was that place part of a chain that sells tyres?

I was going to ask the same

Deepman · 16-04-2016 02:47PM

No , it was a well known BMW Retailer and Service Provider. There appears to be a lot of "over - selling" of parts which do not need replacement at all but are replaced anyway to bump up Garage profitability and activity etc. People don't argue or question too much about anything to do with brakes but when I next leave my car in I will specifically instruct that no repairs are to be carried out or parts replaced without my express authorisation. I think Discs are needlessly replaced and Garages tend to do it automatically when pads need replacing whereas discs are usually good for 2 - 3 times pad replacement depending upon driving style ( ie heavy braker vs light braker). The absence of a minimum standard disc thickness leaves it wide open to manufacturers and garages to replace these items more frequently than is required and its not a cheap job !!!!

CiniO · 16-04-2016 02:50PM

Deepman wrote: »

Just left my Car ( BMW ( 5 series) in for pads to be replaced but was annoyed that Discs were automatically replaced as well with job costing almost 400 Euros FOR JUST THE REAR ONES !!!!! I was advised that legal minimum for disc width/thickness is 22mm's and that my rear ones were down to 19mm's. As I did not see them I was having to take Garage's word for it which I hate to do as I know the staff are under instructions to replace EVERYTHING they can. Any views on this ? (My front pads are getting close to replacement in another 5 000 miles so I don't want to be gouged again for more disc replacements when its unecessary .

There's no such thing as minimum legal disc thickness.
Each manufacturer would specify minimum for particular disc.

400 euro seems very overpriced for set of rear discs and pads.

If you went there to replace pads, and they replaced discs as well for the cost of 400 I would refuse to pay that, and tell them to fit old discs back.

Did they even show you the old discs?

bazz26 · 16-04-2016 02:56PM

Did they give you an estimate of the cost and what parts were being replaced prior to doing the work? Why did you pay the bill if they replaced parts that were not mentioned initially or didn't notify you prior to doing the work. ? The time to question all this is before paying the bill rather than after. Paying the bill to me says you acknowledge the work they have just done.

166man · 16-04-2016 04:04PM

CiniO wrote: »

There's no such thing as minimum legal disc thickness.
Each manufacturer would specify minimum for particular disc.

400 euro seems very overpriced for set of rear discs and pads.

If you went there to replace pads, and they replaced discs as well for the cost of 400 I would refuse to pay that, and tell them to fit old discs back.

Did they even show you the old discs?

Assuming 23% VAT then the total bill is closer to €330. Assuming 2 hours labor @€;90 an hour leaves the parts bill at €150 for OEM discs and pads in a main dealer.

Which part is overpriced out of interest?

CiniO · 16-04-2016 09:08PM

166man wrote: »

Assuming 23% VAT then the total bill is closer to €330. Assuming 2 hours labor @€;90 an hour leaves the parts bill at €150 for OEM discs and pads in a main dealer.

Which part is overpriced out of interest?

2 hours labour....
You don't need that to change set of pads and discs.

mickdw · 16-04-2016 09:20PM

I think its bmw policy now to replace discs with all pad changes for models above 3 series.
If you just dropped the car in for rear brakes and if it is standard policy to replace discs each and every time, well they will say they didn't do any additional work and that 400 is the price of the brake job.
I did abit of research re my own car. The discs as fitted by audi to my car at factory were made by ATE. I found a data sheet for the actual disc from ATE. They specified an allowable wear TWICE that as specified by audi. Now I'm aware that there are additional variables depending on the actual car they are fitted too - car weight and performance, caliper type etc but it still smells as far as I'm concerned.

Captain Slow IRL · 17-04-2016 05:36PM

Deepman wrote: »

... The absence of a minimum standard disc thickness leaves it wide open to manufacturers and garages to replace these items more frequently than is required and its not a cheap job !!!!

The minimum allowable thickness is usually stamped onto the discs.

166man · 17-04-2016 06:57PM

CiniO wrote: »

2 hours labour....
You don't need that to change set of pads and discs.

an hour on each side is reasonable enough for pads and discs. Allowing for mechanics time in testing the car out afterwards and making sure brakes are bedded in.

Stop clutching at straws. Just because you wouldn't pay it doesn't make it overpriced.

biko · 17-04-2016 08:36PM

Moved out from old thread.

Tbh, I would have forced them to put the old discs back on, or at least show me the proof and the disc requirement.
Without notifying me they have no right to start changing stuff.

Learn to do these things yourself and save money and grief.

porsche boy · 17-04-2016 08:42PM

CiniO wrote:

400 euro seems very overpriced for set of rear discs and pads.

No, not really for a 5er. I am assuming it's an e60 or newer though.

CiniO wrote:

2 hours labour.... You don't need that to change set of pads and discs.

Well to do it properly you would. Removing caliper carrier, unwinding brake shoes, fitting new discs, setting the brake shoes for handbrake, refitting carriers, fitting brake pads and refitting caliper and test drive. If you can do it in less time then off ya go.

CiniO · 17-04-2016 08:46PM

166man wrote: »

an hour on each side is reasonable enough for pads and discs. Allowing for mechanics time in testing the car out afterwards and making sure brakes are bedded in.

Stop clutching at straws. Just because you wouldn't pay it doesn't make it overpriced.

Well, I'm not qualified mechanic, but I do stuff with my car. Just pure amateur work.
I dont' have proper equipment. I just have a halfords trolley jack, set of tools, and some space in front of my house.

And believe me, it takes me much less than 2 hours to change a set of pads and discs and bed them in.

If I can do it in an hour, then surely qualified mechanic in adequately equipped garage can as well.

shietpilot · 17-04-2016 08:53PM

CiniO wrote: »

Well, I'm not qualified mechanic, but I do stuff with my car. Just pure amateur work.
I dont' have proper equipment. I just have a halfords trolley jack, set of tools, and some space in front of my house.

And believe me, it takes me much less than 2 hours to change a set of pads and discs and bed them in.

If I can do it in an hour, then surely qualified mechanic in adequately equipped garage can as well.

A mechanic in a garage has to do a lot more. The brakes need to be inspected, thickness needs to be measured, and so on before any actual work needs to be done. They also need to actually get the brake discs and pads and get the correct ones.

Count in buying some parts for your own car and you'll see why it takes 2 hours.

Del2005 · 17-04-2016 09:24PM

CiniO wrote: »

Well, I'm not qualified mechanic, but I do stuff with my car. Just pure amateur work.
I dont' have proper equipment. I just have a halfords trolley jack, set of tools, and some space in front of my house.

And believe me, it takes me much less than 2 hours to change a set of pads and discs and bed them in.

If I can do it in an hour, then surely qualified mechanic in adequately equipped garage can as well.

Different cars require different amounts of work to do similar jobs. I can change the bulbs in my car in 5 minutes with no tools, does that mean that someone with a car that involves removing various parts should be able to to replace their bulbs in 5 minutes also?

jca · 17-04-2016 09:33PM

shietpilot wrote: »

A mechanic in a garage has to do a lot more. The brakes need to be inspected, thickness needs to be measured, and so on before any actual work needs to be done. They also need to actually get the brake discs and pads and get the correct ones.

Count in buying some parts for your own car and you'll see why it takes 2 hours.

Ha ha. This site cracks me up sometimes. You obviously never worked in a garage. Mechanic measuring this, ordering that blah blah. What a load of bollox.

shietpilot · 17-04-2016 09:40PM

jca wrote: »

Ha ha. This site cracks me up sometimes. You obviously never worked in a garage. Mechanic measuring this, ordering that blah blah. What a load of bollox.

I have indeed and you'd be surprised. At independent garages cars can be left up high on the lifts blocking the lift and waiting for parts to arrive.

I have done a parts run myself to get a clutch and flywheel for a VW Caddy because we couldn't afford waiting for parts to be delivered. That's 20 minutes wasted and you think the garage won't charge the customer?

And yes, they will measure minimum thickness of a brake disc before replacing it. Why would they replace it otherwise?

jca · 17-04-2016 10:05PM

This isn't an indy garage we're talking about here. Here's how it pans out in real life.
Foreman: That yoke's in for rear pads, put discs on it as well.
Mechanic: ok. T.J.(guy in stores) get me out a pair of discs and a set of pads for that car there. Here's the reg number.
Mechanic does the job, writes up his job card.
Ding ding, next victim please.

jca · 17-04-2016 10:35PM

Btw op I think you were robbed. €90 per hour is extortionate.

MIKEKC · 17-04-2016 10:41PM

166man wrote: »

Assuming 23% VAT then the total bill is closer to €330. Assuming 2 hours labor @€;90 an hour leaves the parts bill at €150 for OEM discs and pads in a main dealer.

Which part is overpriced out of interest?

Is VAT not 13.5

Nonoperational · 17-04-2016 10:46PM

jca wrote: »

Btw op I think you were robbed. €90 per hour is extortionate.

Main dealer BMW prices. The issue is that he didn't ask for discs.

the_syco · 17-04-2016 10:49PM

Deepman wrote: »

As I did not see them I was having to take Garage's word for it

Next time it happens, ask for the old ones back if you don't trust them.

Furthermore, as most garages don't allow you to drive away without paying, I'm surprised they changed the parts without your prior go ahead. Otherwise they risk you coming up with only the money for the job that you asked them to do, and not a cent more.

jca · 17-04-2016 10:59PM

Nonoperational wrote: »

Main dealer BMW prices. The issue is that he didn't ask for discs.

I know that. I can read.

wonski · 18-04-2016 12:07AM

shietpilot wrote: »

A mechanic in a garage has to do a lot more. The brakes need to be inspected, thickness needs to be measured, and so on before any actual work needs to be done. They also need to actually get the brake discs and pads and get the correct ones.

Count in buying some parts for your own car and you'll see why it takes 2 hours.

So we pay for them waiting for parts now???

Interesting view...

Ordering and waiting for parts @90 / hour.
Wow

jca · 18-04-2016 12:13AM

wonski wrote: »

So we pay for them waiting for parts now???

Interesting view...

Ordering and waiting for parts @90 / hour.
Wow

Shur they're bmw parts....only the best for BMW drivers, they being Ireland's elite and all...

Mech1 · 18-04-2016 12:24AM

I would be surprised if you are quoting correct measurement 22mms is a very thick rear disc!

18-04-2016 02:09AM

Deepman wrote: »

when I next leave my car in

I hope they ride you again, to be honest.

Giving repeat business to a garage that pulled that is just silly on your own behalf. Find a decent, honest mechanic. They do exist.

Esel · 18-04-2016 02:32AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I hope they ride you again, to be honest.

Giving repeat business to a garage that pulled that is just silly on your own behalf. Find a decent, honest mechanic. They do exist.

Harsh, tbh.

@OP Certainly find a "decent, honest mechanic" - who will give you a detailed invoice that will prove that you have not invalidated any warranty which you may have.

@KKV People like to maintain a full (main stealer) service history. Don't slag them for that. I know the OP didn't say this, but the point still applies.

@OP again Ask next time. I presume you don't go to a main dealer for new tyres?

Don't go Chinese for this - unless selling / trading in. After all, you won't be driving on them... :eek:

Cue user TROL.

166man · 18-04-2016 04:22AM

CiniO wrote: »

Well, I'm not qualified mechanic, but I do stuff with my car. Just pure amateur work.
I dont' have proper equipment. I just have a halfords trolley jack, set of tools, and some space in front of my house.

And believe me, it takes me much less than 2 hours to change a set of pads and discs and bed them in.

If I can do it in an hour, then surely qualified mechanic in adequately equipped garage can as well.

Frankly it doesn't matter a toss how fast you can do them or where you change your brakes.

An hour per side to change discs and pads and bed them in properly seems acceptable to me.

I'd be well impressed if you can change discs and pads and bed them in properly in an hour. If that's the case you should go work for a main dealer if you're that good.

@ people giving out about €90 an hour for labour. That's the rate lads, people have to be paid and the building rent has to be paid along with overheads. If ye don't like it then bring your business elsewhere.

/rant.

kirving · 18-04-2016 07:41AM

That's still not the point though is it.

Quoting a legal minimum for dics is absolute bull, as is not calling the customer to confirm before springing that kind of bill on them.

We all know that the free coffee machine and the leather couches in the main dealer have to be paid for in addition to everything else, and that's what the job costs if you were to ring up and ask.

If it was me, I would have told them to remove the dics, and they'd be getting a bill for my time spent waiting for them to do it.

Garage changed discs without notification

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