Kilkenny GAA Thread Part 2 MOD NOTE POST 1*

citykat · 17-04-2016 09:01PM

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

They had a bad day against a well drilled and fantastically organised team with skillful players on very good form, the tone of this post would suggest KK have been off the pace all year or something. That isn't the case.

I'm not sure how much was actually learned today that wasn't already self-evident. First, when some key players are missing (Paul Murphy and Conor Fogarty in particular, but also obviously Mick Fennelly and Larkin are huge) we lack options to step up from the bench. Second, we lacked a bit of purpose, I couldn't tell what our game plan was. But I find it hard to believe we'll enter the championship in the same way (if we do we'll not go far). Third, Clare are a serious outfit again (that one is a bit of a surprise but it shouldn't have been, probably wasn't to a lot of Clare lads).

Murphy had a nightmare today but he's normally better so I suppose you just have to chalk it down. Would be very worried about our full back line, Paul Murphy has been keeping it a lot more formidable looking than it really is. Wouldn't worry at all about our half back line or midfield once everyone is healthy (never a guarantee). Disappointing that none of the up and coming forwards have been able to prove themselves indispensable. John Power I actually thought was OK today, at least in patches. Not enough for championship and still inconsistent, but sure he is who he is at this point.

On a side note, sad to see Tyrell leaving so early but he had to come off, he was being roasted. It's a shame really but the writing has been on the wall for a while even if he couldn't see it at the same time the likes of Tommy Walsh and Brian Hogan could. Something tells me we've seen the last of Jackie at least as a starter. Which would be a bad way to go if true, but that's sport, not everyone gets the send off they deserve.

Jackie was taken off due to injury.

Deathwish4 · 17-04-2016 09:05PM

citykat wrote: »

Jackie was taken off due to injury.

Injury or not, his days as a starter are over.
Alarmed with how bad O'Shea was.

Johngoose · 17-04-2016 09:12PM

I was gunning for KK,but just thought they weren't fast enough at getting the ball.I think the Ref left a lot of stuff go,thought Clare were dirty enough.Clare managed to shut down KK forwards.Even TJ couldn't get much from play,compared to his usual poetry in motion.

Johngoose · 17-04-2016 09:15PM

Are Kilkenny too reliant on the 2nd half of games overall?Just thinking back to AI final with Galway.Was their decimation of Offaly actually their undoing today?

pat 22 · 17-04-2016 09:20PM

That game might just be the kick up the arse alot of fellas needed.

Too much mouthing off out of alot of them lately.

Overall it's been a poor league for us. Got a few wins we scarcely deserved. Could just have as easily ended up in a relegation play off.

Roll on the summer !

Michael Kavanagh · 17-04-2016 09:26PM

theoneeyedman wrote: »

I'd expect they are spending it on hurling. It's not like Wexford are an elite football County or anything.

Fine them, or withold all central funding until they put some effort into football. All other counties attempt to bring both codes along somewhat, usually there is a small pocket of hurling in a predominantly football County and they make some effort.

People find this hard to believe there is no pocket in the county where football is popular

citykat · 17-04-2016 09:26PM

Wouldn't be too despondent after that today. Clare were by far the better team on the day. We didn't help our cause though with the soft goals we conceded. I couldn't believe, given how good and experienced he is, Murphy coming charging for those high balls. He was at fault for at least two. Bad and all as we were, take those two and a little bit of luck the other end, the game could have gone the other way. From a KK point of view, bar TJ and Walsh(P) in flashes, not many caught the eye. I expected Clare to come haring out of the traps as they're in a different stage of their cycle to us. As TJ said after the Leinster final last year, the serious training starts now!

windy shepard henderson · 17-04-2016 09:46PM

pat 22 wrote: »

That game might just be the kick up the arse alot of fellas needed.

Too much mouthing off out of alot of them lately.

Overall it's been a poor league for us. Got a few wins we scarcely deserved. Could just have as easily ended up in a relegation play off.

Roll on the summer !

yep , its April not September after all , people tend to get excited when the likes of kilkenny get beat , how diffrent would the scoreline be had paul murphy being in on john conlon or how much freedom in the middle would would we have got had the fennellys being on ,

not trying to down play our win , we needed a performance and got it but that is as poor as i have seen from ye,it will also act as the kick in the backside that kilkenny have been looking for over the league i expect there will be a few heavy training sessions in the next few weeks followed by a marker to be laid down in the leinster championship

robwen · 17-04-2016 09:53PM

randd1 wrote: »

We're at nothing starting John Power.

As dedicated and all as he is, he has no appetite for the battle, gets bullied easy, has a poor understanding of what's going on around him, and is hopeless in tight situations where using your physicality is necessary.

An absolute gentleman, but way too timid for inter-county hurling.

I think u nailed it with the word timid perfectly describes John

robwen · 17-04-2016 09:55PM

Was it Joyce had to be helped off the pitch at the end? Looked like a bad injury

munsterlegend · 17-04-2016 10:01PM

While I think Kilkenny will improve considerably come championship this victory will give other counties plenty encouragement.

I know Murphy is a big loss in the back line but struggled under the high ball from what I have seen.harnedy did wreck down in cork and today again there was an air of panic.

Will be an interesting championship.

unrealtime · 17-04-2016 10:22PM

Consider Mick Fennelly and Conor at midfield. Forwards with TJ Richie Walter Colin Larks and Farrell. Murphy at right full - different team entirely.

I have to say however that Prendergast is so unlike his dad - very loose and ungainly and easily dragged out of position. Kennedy is no answer though so we may be stuck with what we have.

dubcat51 · 17-04-2016 10:50PM

The positives from today is that we won the 2nd half (fight and hunger still there)also Galway did something similar in 2012 leinster and we worked it out and came back strong.you learn more when you loose and Cody learned a lot today about some players.time now for injured players to rest and for some younger ones to step up in training and ones playing for u 21st. Agree about John power,blanch field for me looks a better prospect. Glad to see bolger get a little game time.scored a point and looked at threat.would have taken getting to a semi at the start of the league.motivation for 3 in a row should be high.

Michael Kavanagh · 17-04-2016 11:03PM

dubcat51 wrote: »

The positives from today is that we won the 2nd half (fight and hunger still there)also Galway did something similar in 2012 leinster and we worked it out and came back strong.you learn more when you loose and Cody learned a lot today about some players.time now for injured players to rest and for some younger ones to step up in training and ones playing for u 21st. Agree about John power,blanch field for me looks a better prospect. Glad to see bolger get a little game time.scored a point and looked at threat.would have taken getting to a semi at the start of the league.motivation for 3 in a row should be high.

Bolger scored two points when he came on drove one wide I thought himself Blanchfield threw there selves around when they came on I must say I was pleased with jj Farrell he took his scores well and he was fouled about four times that they didn't get any frees allowed.

Cornerback1 · 17-04-2016 11:46PM

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

They had a bad day against a well drilled and fantastically organised team with skillful players on very good form, the tone of this post would suggest KK have been off the pace all year or something. That isn't the case.

I'm not sure how much was actually learned today that wasn't already self-evident. First, when some key players are missing (Paul Murphy and Conor Fogarty in particular, but also obviously Mick Fennelly and Larkin are huge) we lack options to step up from the bench. Second, we lacked a bit of purpose, I couldn't tell what our game plan was. But I find it hard to believe we'll enter the championship in the same way (if we do we'll not go far). Third, Clare are a serious outfit again (that one is a bit of a surprise but it shouldn't have been, probably wasn't to a lot of Clare lads).

Murphy had a nightmare today but he's normally better so I suppose you just have to chalk it down. Would be very worried about our full back line, Paul Murphy has been keeping it a lot more formidable looking than it really is. Wouldn't worry at all about our half back line or midfield once everyone is healthy (never a guarantee). Disappointing that none of the up and coming forwards have been able to prove themselves indispensable. John Power I actually thought was OK today, at least in patches. Not enough for championship and still inconsistent, but sure he is who he is at this point.

On a side note, sad to see Tyrell leaving so early but he had to come off, he was being roasted. It's a shame really but the writing has been on the wall for a while even if he couldn't see it at the same time the likes of Tommy Walsh and Brian Hogan could. Something tells me we've seen the last of Jackie at least as a starter. Which would be a bad way to go if true, but that's sport, not everyone gets the send off they deserve.

Did JT not pull a hamstring on the first goal?

Just home. Clare were excellent. All round, they won every battle. They were sharp, quick and hungry. They have serious pace in their team and it's hard to deal with. Everything worked well for them today. The sliotar seemed to break to a Clare man every time. How many wides did they hit?

They got the breaks on the high balls in but to be fair they were trying it all day. They tried 3 or 4 in the first 10mins and we were jittery in there between Murphy and full back line. Clare seemed to withdraw everyone and isolate the KK fullback line.

Half back line was ok but Clare seemed to rotate and KK at times didn't seem to know who to pick up. Clare were quick on the puck outs too and caught us napping a few times also. Conor O'Shea is strong but pace and ability to turn quicker is required. Maybe exposed on wing.

Midfield was badly outgunned. Lester worked hard but was slow and got blocked and hooked too often. Cillian is not a midfielder. Went back to half back and that's where he should be played.

The question was always how would KK do if TJ and Richie were held up front?? I thought Kevin Kelly done ok and got 2pts. Walter was ok and John Jo worked hard. Was disappointed with John Power. Think he has more to give.

Overall, Clare were very good and some of their play was a joy to watch..if you weren't a Cat!! As i said earlier, can they play as well again? But they are back!!

Cornerback1 · 17-04-2016 11:53PM

dubcat51 wrote: »

Firstly best team won today.secondly can't wait to meet them again.cant understand why we never pushed up on there sweeper to see what would happen.our spare man (whoever he was had no influence on the play or protecting holden)so why didn't we go 15 v 15 and see how it panned out.goals we conceded were schoolboy errors (bar mc graths)thought Walter was outstanding today and blanch field did well when he came on.o shea Buckley very poor.kevin kelly 2 pats first half but generally out muscled.my ratings out of 10.
Murphy 4
Pender 5
Joey 4
Jackie 4
P.Walsh 8
O shea 4
Joyce 5
Lester 7
Buckley 5
Walter 8
Kelly 6
Tj 7

Richie 6
Jon jobs
Power 5

Blanch and bolger did OK.
Thought clare were pulling and dragging off the ball and showed they wanted it.will be fireworks if we meet again.

Yeah. When we were chasing game, there's no need to play a sweeper. Push up on their sweeper.

As an aside, Limerick done it and them 6pts down. They still persisted with a sweeper. Crazy!

Cornerback1 · 18-04-2016 12:03AM

Michael Kavanagh wrote: »

Bolger scored two points when he came on drove one wide I thought himself Blanchfield threw there selves around when they came on I must say I was pleased with jj Farrell he took his scores well and he was fouled about four times that they didn't get any frees allowed.

Richie Hogan was pulled and dragged on and off the ball all day also. TJ was far behind. Time to hibernate now for 6 weeks and get the other lads back.

Hunger will come back and this result will work to us later in season i hope.

Realt Dearg Sec · 18-04-2016 12:09AM

citykat wrote: »

Jackie was taken off due to injury.

Fair enough, my mistake, was watching on TV and taking care of a baby. That's my excuse and I'm sticking to it.

Still, he was in trouble for pace a few times, dunno how long the injury was at him before going off but had to use some cuteness to get out of trouble early doors. That's when he had the ball. When he didn't he was in trouble. Anyway I was surprised to see him go so early, not Cody's usual style, so that explains it, but still can't see him starting in the summer, bar a rake of injuries.

The news that Joyce might be injured is worrying, we are in such trouble down the middle right now we can't afford to be without him. Might force a change we wouldn't be too happy with at midfield.

Michael Kavanagh · 18-04-2016 12:12AM

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

Fair enough, my mistake, was watching on TV and taking care of a baby. That's my excuse and I'm sticking to it.

Still, he was in trouble for pace a few times, dunno how long the injury was at him before going off but had to use some cuteness to get out of trouble early doors. That's when he had the ball. When he didn't he was in trouble. Anyway I was surprised to see him go so early, not Cody's usual style, so that explains it, but still can't see him starting in the summer, bar a rake of injuries.

The news that Joyce might be injured is worrying, we are in such trouble down the middle right now we can't afford to be without him. Might force a change we wouldn't be too happy with at midfield.

jackies hamstring went

Michael Kavanagh · 18-04-2016 12:14AM

Cornerback1 wrote: »

Richie Hogan was pulled and dragged on and off the ball all day also. TJ was far behind. Time to hibernate now for 6 weeks and get the other lads back.

Hunger will come back and this result will work to us later in season i hope.

First round of the local championship next weekend

citykat · 18-04-2016 12:26AM

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

Fair enough, my mistake, was watching on TV and taking care of a baby. That's my excuse and I'm sticking to it.

Ah no bother. Just make sure you keep an eye on the grip!

Realt Dearg Sec · 18-04-2016 12:44AM

Michael Kavanagh wrote: »

jackies hamstring went

Its weird because my post was actually a reply to that very statement. So...

Topcat32 · 18-04-2016 02:01AM

So if everybody is fit, which is highly unlikely I think the team that Cody would pick for the Leinster championship would be as follows

Eoin Murphy
Paul Murphy Lennon Pendergast
Buckley Joyce Walsh
M Fennelly Fogarty
Larkin Hogan W Walsh
C Fennelly Reid Power

Subs would be
R Reid
Holden
Cody
Ryan
Kennedy
Lyng
O Shea
Farell
Blanchfield
Kelly
Bolger

JJs Left Hand · 18-04-2016 08:59AM

Why would you drop Holden on the back on one bad game? With Fogarty and Fennelly back in the team our half back line can sit deeper and Padraig and Buckley can sweep in front of him along with Murphy. Don't think Conlan won much clean ball off Joey yesterday - they just murdered us on the breaks as they'd pulled our shape all over the place.

Whoever compared it to Galway in 2012 nailed it. Clare basically played with a full back line, Bugler at centre back and John Conlan up front and everyone else was fluid. Pender was following Collins and ended up on our half forward line for a lot of their puck outs and Wally ended up right half back behind Padraig Walsh following the man he was beside. The puck outs were coming so fast that we could never reset into any kind of shape. People in here were calling for Conor O' Shea to be midfield but he was ruthlessly exposed yesterday as not having the mobility for it and on the evidence of the last 2 days he doesn't have it for the half back line either.

Re: the forwards I think Jonjo is now ahead of Power for the championship. As I see it we have 2 options in the forwards, assuming 5 of the places are Wally, Colin, TJ, Richie and Larks, we can either have Jonjo as the 6th or we play Lester at 10/12 but he plays as an extra midfield/back like Fogarty. Not out and out sweepers but 2 players who go up and down the field constantly.

Anyone paying attention over the last 3/4 years would know that we're essentially playing with 15/16 players and a padded out panel that, at the minute, isn't up to it. Yesterday was coming and the best thing that happened was that it came in April.

Clare have shown their hand and I fully expect us to beat them in the championship IF we get everyone back fit. They still have McInerney, O' Donnell and Kelly to come back in as well. But if we don't line up with the 2 Fennellys, Murphy, Fogarty and Larks in the championship we're in big trouble

droppingball · 18-04-2016 09:29AM

Clare were by far the better team yesterday and thoroughly deserved there win. Never seen anything like some of their tactic but they all knew their job so well that it worked. The best thing is that we have seen this in April and the management team will be more prepared the next time. Clare showed us a lot in that sense but they have some lovely hurlers but the fact that physicality has been added makes them a dangerous proposition.

We on the other hand reacted to what Clare were doing and never imposed ourselves on proceedings, right from the off we were chasing it. Clare played with 4 forwards 2 pods of two centrally and on the puckout two of there forwards moved to the midfield with there half backs moving forward under the puckout which meant Kevin Kelly and Walter Walsh were busting a gut up and down the wing. This was obviously designed to take our half back line out of play to take half forwards out of there comfort zone and then get Fitzgerald under the high balls. The only way to go is zonal to defend against this, so if we face it again, half back line hold there line midfield sit right in and half forward drop 15 yards but not go the whole way, this closes the space but we don't lose our shape and the space is compacted. There puckouts were so quick that they got a number of score straight from them.

Also our loose man has to drop deeper to protect Joey and win the breaks in fairness Conlan didn't win many 50 50s but the mix ups between Joey and Murphy killed us.

Not too many players were stand out performers but Blanchfield looked more of a threat when he came on and TJ,Padraig Walsh and Jonjo were most effective whilst I thought Walter and Lester worked there socks off.

galwaylad14 · 18-04-2016 10:27AM

Yesterday I think confirmed what I have thought about this Kilkenny team for the last year or two (and in fairness what a lot of ye have said already). The starting team is still top class when everyone is fit, maybe not quiet as good as the 07/08/09 sort of vintage but pretty close. But unlike then when ye had 4 or 5 guys to come in that were just as good as a lot of the guys starting (TJ was a sub on these teams FFS!), now ye simply don't have that quality on the bench. The result of that being a couple of injuries and ye are forced into playing guys that just aren't up to the standard required.

That full back line is very very dodgy and I thought that last year too, Murphy is outstanding back there but take him out and it was really exposed. Tyrell I thought was finished last year, Prendergast is an average enough corner back at that level and I'm not convinced on Holden either. Thought the only thing that saved him from a roasting at Joe's hands in the Leinster and All Irelands last year was a lack of supply coming in. The keeper is usually very good in fairness, but he was totally at fault for two goals and he really should have kept out Cunningham's one too.

Also has to be mentioned that that's a serious Clare team. Look at the quality of forwards they had yesterday and they were still missing O'Donnell and the jewel in the crown, Tony Kelly.

Having said all that, if ye get 13 or 14 of your strongest 15 fit for the summer then I certainly wouldn't put down much money in opposing ye to win Liam yet again.

blackcard · 18-04-2016 01:56PM

Anyone know why Richie Hogan was booked yesterday, seemed to be a gentle push?

PáircLife · 18-04-2016 02:39PM

blackcard wrote: »

Anyone know why Richie Hogan was booked yesterday, seemed to be a gentle push?

Don't know we might have won if he wasn't booked!

Realt Dearg Sec · 18-04-2016 02:50PM

blackcard wrote: »

Anyone know why Richie Hogan was booked yesterday, seemed to be a gentle push?

It looked like a farce on TV, he shoved your man and he went over like a sack of spuds, thought it might have been a stitch up, a la Liam Rushe.

JJs Left Hand · 18-04-2016 02:53PM

Presumed he worked the timber with the way Podge went down

Kilkenny GAA Thread Part 2 **MOD NOTE POST 1***

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Kilkenny GAA Thread Part 2 MOD NOTE POST 1*