Is standing up for children on public transport now the norm?

c68zapdsm5i1ru · 15-04-2016 02:24PM

Keane2baMused wrote: »

That's true but children's skulls are a lot more vulnerable than an adult.

But how many incidents have their been of children receiving serious head injuries because they fell while standing on a bus? They're far more likely to do themselves an injury out tearing around with their friends, climbing up onto walls, swinging out of lamposts etc. Where do you draw the line?

Keane2baMused · 15-04-2016 02:24PM

JustShon wrote: »

Look, I appreciate you're coming at this from a mother's point of view (or a gay dad? you mentioned you have a child with a male partner) but I fell plenty as a child, stood on most bus journeys and took many a knock, bump, cut etc.

I have never broken a bone and the only permanent skeleto-muscular damage I've ever received was as a result of an assault when I was 16.

A little tumble due to the bus braking suddenly isn't going to shatter a child's skull. A few shed tears never killed a child.

It's all hypothetical obviously. The point is more so prevention is better than cure to my mind.

No need for older children who are well able to stand to take a seat but is it really such a big deal to give one to younger ones?

Paulownia · 15-04-2016 02:25PM

I'm middle aged and in Ireland I have never been offered a seat by a young person and indeed would not expect it, but in Paris it happens all the time. I often refuse and thank them warmly for offering. I always stand up for elderly people or people with babies but would certainly sit with a child of eight or more unless there was some visible disability. There is nothing to stop a parent holding on to a child if they wish, I held onto mine back in the day until I was happy they could manage

Keane2baMused · 15-04-2016 02:26PM

Graham wrote: »

No, I think you're wrong because for some reason you've decided to project your past experiences onto me and appear to be getting yourself into a right tizzy in the process.

You replied to my posts. I didn't say my experience was gospel. I said it was my experience.

If you don't agree then move on,no biggy!

traprunner · 15-04-2016 02:26PM

Keane2baMused wrote: »

The owness is on both. To make yourself visible as a pedestrian and as a driver to be vigilant.

Is that difficult to understand?

Sure a law requiring everyone to wear hi-vis would work then...wouldn't it?

At times of low sun makes hi-vis more dangerous. This is maybe as all day every day for 6 months of the year in Ireland. The hi-vis does not stand out.

JustShon · 15-04-2016 02:27PM

Keane2baMused wrote: »

It's all hypothetical obviously. The point is more so prevention is better than cure to my mind.

No need for older children who are well able to stand to take a seat but is it really such a big deal to give one to younger ones?

Depends how young. If they're old enough to walk to school without parental supervision (about 7 or 8 in my view, feel free to debate) then they're old enough to stand for a bus journey or part thereof.

I would definitely give up my seat for a toddler / early schoolchild.

Keane2baMused · 15-04-2016 02:29PM

traprunner wrote: »

Sure a law requiring everyone to wear hi-vis would work then...wouldn't it?

At times of low sun makes hi-vis more dangerous. This is maybe as all day every day for 6 months of the year in Ireland. The hi-vis does not stand out.

So what's the answer then if a high vis is useless?

Just to mention I don't put a high-vis on my child but I see the use of them for children walking alone on dark mornings!

c68zapdsm5i1ru · 15-04-2016 02:31PM

Keane2baMused wrote: »

It's all hypothetical obviously. The point is more so prevention is better than cure to my mind.

No need for older children who are well able to stand to take a seat but is it really such a big deal to give one to younger ones?

I suppose it depends on your definition of younger ones. I think toddlers and very small children would have difficulty keeping their balance, but by age six or so a child should be able to hang onto a rail, with their parent or minder keeping a hold of them.

If I was travelling with my niece and nephew aged 8 and 10 I would not allow them to accept a seat from an adult. I would just say 'no, it's alright thank you. They're well able to stand'.

Keane2baMused · 15-04-2016 02:33PM

JustShon wrote: »

Depends how young. If they're old enough to walk to school without parental supervision (about 7 or 8 in my view, feel free to debate) then they're old enough to stand for a bus journey or part thereof.

I would definitely give up my seat for a toddler / early schoolchild.

Do children walk alone to school that young in this day and age?

My son is in that age bracket but has to have constant supervision so doesn't have the luxury of that level of independence.

I would love him to be able to and I think it's something most take for granted!

traprunner · 15-04-2016 02:33PM

Keane2baMused wrote: »

So what's the answer then if a high vis is useless?

Just to mention I don't put a high-vis on my child but I see the use of them for children walking alone on dark mornings!

The over use of hi-vis is useless. If used in times of low sun then the wearer often doesn't stand out whereas someone wearing black would stand out more.

To bring it back on topic. How did we all survive childhood without being wrapped in bubble-wrap? Most kids of a certain age are well fit to stand on a bus without dying.

Penny Tration · 15-04-2016 02:36PM

If someone looks like they need the seat more than I do, I'll stand up. Age and gender don't matter. That said, MOST children over 10 are fully able to stand. If they look like they need it, or if a parent seems genuine in asking for it, I'll stand. I think the majority of the time, you can tell if someone is asking out of need, or out of sheer laziness.

The hidden disability thing gets to me. I don't have a disability, but I have a slipped disk and it's resulted in sciatica. So regularly (until it's resolved), I'm in a hell of a lot of pain, barely able to stand, but you can't see it. you can't see a bad back injury.

I don't want to announce to ANYONE that I have a medical problem, so I won't ask for a seat because I know I look like any other able bodies 27 year old.

I was asked to give up my seat two weeks ago for a middle aged woman who had nothing wrong with her - she said "ah will ya giz yer seat love, I'm dying carrying these" (she had a load of shopping bags). I was in bits and said "sorry, I can't," and got called a 'cnut.'

I don't and will not explain having a medical condition - it's private. That's why I generally assume the person asking is sincere. The odd time you can tell they're just lazy, I refuse. 90% of the time I either stand up when asked, or just stand up when someone looks in need. it's not a big deal

Keane2baMused · 15-04-2016 02:36PM

traprunner wrote: »

To bring it back on topic. How did we all survive childhood without being wrapped in bubble-wrap? Most kids of a certain age are well fit to stand on a bus without dying.

I agree with this and actually never said otherwise.

I do think it's age appropriate though but I'm not so sure where you draw the line. As I said I don't have the luxury with my little lad. He would do somersaults up the bus corridor if he could!

Without a helmet funnily enough!

JustShon · 15-04-2016 02:37PM

Kenny Putrid Tux wrote: »

If I was travelling with my niece and nephew aged 8 and 10 I would not allow them to accept a seat from an adult. I would just say 'no, it's alright thank you. They're well able to stand'.

Remind me of one time when I was about 6 or 7 on what felt like a very long bus journey, I was having an oul moan about having to stand "Mammy, my legs are tired! How much longer? etc" So some woman overheard me and offered me her seat. Poor mam was mortified at the idea of me taking the seat and made me stand.

JustShon · 15-04-2016 02:39PM

Keane2baMused wrote: »

Do children walk alone to school that young in this day and age?

My son is in that age bracket but has to have constant supervision so doesn't have the luxury of that level of independence.

I would love him to be able to and I think it's something most take for granted!

I walked to school by myself at age 7, I don't remember the others. Obviously it's distance dependent to an extent too.

I understand that it's different for your son. It must be difficult for both of you.

Graham · 15-04-2016 02:42PM

Penny Tration wrote: »

If someone looks like they need the seat more than I do, I'll stand up.

+1 that's really all there is to it.

traprunner · 15-04-2016 02:43PM

Keane2baMused wrote: »

He would do somersaults up the bus corridor if he could!

Without a helmet funnily enough!

He sounds cool

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 15-04-2016 02:52PM

Keane2baMused wrote: »

Do children walk alone to school that young in this day and age?

My son is in that age bracket but has to have constant supervision so doesn't have the luxury of that level of independence.

I would love him to be able to and I think it's something most take for granted!

How old is he and how far away is the school?

It;s not unsual to see 8-9 year old kids coming home on their own on the metro here (Berlin).

Keane2baMused · 15-04-2016 02:58PM

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

How old is he and how far away is the school?

It;s not unsual to see 8-9 year old kids coming home on their own on the metro here (Berlin).

He is 8 but he has additional needs and wouldn't have awareness of traffic or dangers . He has to have supervision playing outside the house even so going to school alone would be a complete no no unfortunately.

Hopefully some day

Neyite · 15-04-2016 03:01PM

Penny Tration wrote: »

If someone looks like they need the seat more than I do, I'll stand up. Age and gender don't matter. That said, MOST children over 10 are fully able to stand. If they look like they need it, or if a parent seems genuine in asking for it, I'll stand. I think the majority of the time, you can tell if someone is asking out of need, or out of sheer laziness.

The hidden disability thing gets to me. I don't have a disability, but I have a slipped disk and it's resulted in sciatica. So regularly (until it's resolved), I'm in a hell of a lot of pain, barely able to stand, but you can't see it. you can't see a bad back injury.

I don't want to announce to ANYONE that I have a medical problem, so I won't ask for a seat because I know I look like any other able bodies 27 year old.

I was asked to give up my seat two weeks ago for a middle aged woman who had nothing wrong with her - she said "ah will ya giz yer seat love, I'm dying carrying these" (she had a load of shopping bags). I was in bits and said "sorry, I can't," and got called a 'cnut.'

I don't and will not explain having a medical condition - it's private. That's why I generally assume the person asking is sincere. The odd time you can tell they're just lazy, I refuse. 90% of the time I either stand up when asked, or just stand up when someone looks in need. it's not a big deal

Aren't you contradicting yourself there a bit though? You say that if someone looks like they need it, or the parent asks, you'd oblige, yet on the other hand you say you have hidden medical condition and shouldn't be obliged to disclose it.

But what if the old woman who had the bags has a hidden condition too and maybe also didn't want to disclose it to you instead citing the bags as her 'reason', and equally needed that seat? You saw an able-bodied person from the standpoint of someone with a hidden condition, but maybe she made a similar assumption about you too? (the name calling was out of order though)

I'm not asking anyone to disclose their personal medical stuff to me - in fact I'd feel awkward if you did. But just asking for a seat without elaboration is more likely to get a refusal I imagine.

I've been pushed roughly out of the way when I was two weeks away from giving birth in a bus queue. There were six of us waiting and an empty double decker turned up. The old bag could have had her pick of umpteen seats but saw it necessary to push me aside so forcefully that I went flying. I couldn't get my balance because it was way off in pregnancy as it was. A guy behind me thankfully caught me before I whacked my head off the pavement. Now she was a cnut.

Penny Tration · 15-04-2016 03:05PM

Neyite wrote: »

Aren't you contradicting yourself there a bit though? You say that if someone looks like they need it, or the parent asks, you'd oblige, yet on the other hand you say you have hidden medical condition and shouldn't be obliged to disclose it.

But what if the old woman who had the bags has a hidden condition too and maybe also didn't want to disclose it to you instead citing the bags as her 'reason', and equally needed that seat? You saw an able-bodied person from the standpoint of someone with a hidden condition, but maybe she made a similar assumption about you too? (the name calling was out of order though)

I'm not asking anyone to disclose their personal medical stuff to me - in fact I'd feel awkward if you did. But just asking for a seat without elaboration is more likely to get a refusal I imagine.

I've been pushed roughly out of the way when I was two weeks away from giving birth in a bus queue. There were six of us waiting and an empty double decker turned up. The old bag could have had her pick of umpteen seats but saw it necessary to push me aside so forcefully that I went flying. I couldn't get my balance because it was way off in pregnancy as it was. A guy behind me thankfully caught me before I whacked my head off the pavement. Now she was a cnut.

I don't think I'm contradicting myself. I don't expect the person asking me for my seat to explain why they want it. If they ask, they're usually genuine so I'll oblige. if they don't seem genuine, I won't.

For all I know, they have medical conditions which is why, if they ask and seem genuine (the vast, vast majority do), I'll say "no problem," and hop up.

As for the bag woman, if she had just asked for the seat, I'd have given it to her (were I able). She specifically asked for it because she had shopping bags. I understand not wanting to disclose medical problems which is why I'll give my seat up if asked with no reason generally. If someone says it's because they have bags, nope.

Neyite · 15-04-2016 03:58PM

Penny Tration wrote: »

I don't think I'm contradicting myself. I don't expect the person asking me for my seat to explain why they want it. If they ask, they're usually genuine so I'll oblige. if they don't seem genuine, I won't.

For all I know, they have medical conditions which is why, if they ask and seem genuine (the vast, vast majority do), I'll say "no problem," and hop up.

As for the bag woman, if she had just asked for the seat, I'd have given it to her (were I able). She specifically asked for it because she had shopping bags. I understand not wanting to disclose medical problems which is why I'll give my seat up if asked with no reason generally. If someone says it's because they have bags, nope.

Fair enough, I think I misunderstood you so. But if she had a prolapse and just said she had bags because she was afraid you'd ask her what the medical condition was in order to get the seat?

I've visions of two people with hidden conditions squaring up for one seat and neither of them wanted to disclose they have a medical condition at all. :pac:

Penny Tration · 15-04-2016 04:08PM

Neyite wrote: »

Fair enough, I think I misunderstood you so. But if she had a prolapse and just said she had bags because she was afraid you'd ask her what the medical condition was in order to get the seat?

I've visions of two people with hidden conditions squaring up for one seat and neither of them wanted to disclose they have a medical condition at all. :pac:

:pac: :pac: :pac:

No need to even say they have a medical condition. "Any chance I could have your seat?" is all that's necessary

Kev_2012 · 15-04-2016 04:13PM

The only thing I'll be standing up for on public transport come june is the boys in green.

If it looks like they need it i'll stand up. I don't really care.

I had a row of seats to myself on an 11 hour flight before on a busy plane and thought to myself that I was very lucky. They close the cabin doors so no one else was getting on, and just before heading to the runway a member of cabin crew asked me to swap with a couple and their kid.

I wasn't happy inside but I smiled and said sure no problem. Then I was given the choice of sitting near the emergency exit (it was a 747, there was about 4 or 5 feet of leg room), or the first row by the bulkhead (far less legroom and there was a screaming baby there).

I was gonna make the obvious choice until I seen that the emergency exit seat was the middle seat and there was a guy and girl chatting about absolute nonsense over and back.

I chose the screaming baby seat.

c68zapdsm5i1ru · 15-04-2016 04:17PM

Kev_2012 wrote: »

The only thing I'll be standing up for on public transport come june is the boys in green.

If it looks like they need it i'll stand up. I don't really care.

I had a row of seats to myself on an 11 hour flight before on a busy plane and thought to myself that I was very lucky. They close the cabin doors so no one else was getting on, and just before heading to the runway a member of cabin crew asked me to swap with a couple and their kid.

I wasn't happy inside but I smiled and said sure no problem. Then I was given the choice of sitting near the emergency exit (it was a 747, there was about 4 or 5 feet of leg room), or the first row by the bulkhead (far less legroom and there was a screaming baby there).

I was gonna make the obvious choice until I seen that the emergency exit seat was the middle seat and there was a guy and girl chatting about absolute nonsense over and back.

I chose the screaming baby seat.

If families want to sit together they should make sure to board, or check in, early. It really annoys me when a couple with children saunter on at the last minute and just assume people will give up window/aisle seats or seats beside friends so that they can all sit together.

Matter for a different thread I suppose.

HensVassal · 15-04-2016 04:18PM

Kenny Putrid Tux wrote: »

My sister was sitting on a crowded bus recently going to work when a woman who looked in her thirties got on with a child aged about 10. My sister didn't take much notice, but a few minutes later the mother said to the child 'well obviously no one's going to give you a seat so make sure you hold on very tightly'.

I was telling a friend and she said she saw a mother ask a man if her child (who looked about 8) could have his seat, as it was dangerous for children to be trying to keep their balance on a moving bus.

I could understand if she was talking about a 2 or 3 year old. But is it really now the norm for adults to stand up for children on public transport?

Throw the little fucker into the luggage rack

Kev_2012 · 15-04-2016 04:20PM

Kenny Putrid Tux wrote: »

If families want to sit together they should make sure to board, or check in, early. It really annoys me when a couple with children saunter on at the last minute and just assume people will give up window/aisle seats or seats beside friends so that they can all sit together.

Matter for a different thread I suppose.

Yeah agreed. I think they all had seats! I didn't know that at the time but to be honest I hate causing a fuss like that and I just wanted to get to sleep. Could've been a different reason too, not sure.

Yeah_Right · 15-04-2016 04:21PM

I think children should definitely be given seats on public transport. It's so annoying walking over all these brats lying on floor due to their chronic-can't-stand syndrome. The screams they make when you step on them!!

In all seriousness, I happily give my seat up to the elderly, the disabled or women. If I notice. Chances are I have my headphones on and my nose buried in a book.

Neyite · 15-04-2016 04:31PM

Kenny Putrid Tux wrote: »

If families want to sit together they should make sure to board, or check in, early. It really annoys me when a couple with children saunter on at the last minute and just assume people will give up window/aisle seats or seats beside friends so that they can all sit together.

Matter for a different thread I suppose.

I think sometimes the crew move them to other seats for safety reasons or for other reasons - for example, some airlines if you had a family of 4 in a 3-3-3 configuration, they would move you so that there is one adult sitting beside each child, rather than have one adult with a kid either side and the other adult across the aisle. And some airlines move men who happen to be sitting beside unaccompanied minors. So it might not always be the family's fault the seating gets changed at the last minute.

Digs · 15-04-2016 04:34PM

Kenny Putrid Tux wrote: »

If families want to sit together they should make sure to board, or check in, early. It really annoys me when a couple with children saunter on at the last minute and just assume people will give up window/aisle seats or seats beside friends so that they can all sit together.

Matter for a different thread I suppose.

I've flown long haul with my husband and young daughter twice. It's, generally speaking, not a case of families turning up late and expecting seats together, the air hostesses both times said to us they would wait until everyone had boarded and seated (basically waiting to see if people didn't show) and at that point they would ask someone in a seat more suitable to a family (like 11 empty seats in a row) if they wouldn't mind moving to accommodate a small child. We already had seats together, we didn't ask to be moved, but more space for us as a family led to less confinement of my daughter, therefore less crying (no crying!) on her part and a more comfortable and quiet journey for everyone else!

The air hostesses do this everyday, they know what works. It's generally not a case of families feeing more entitled!

Samaris · 15-04-2016 05:03PM

I had a rather funny experience some time ago on an intra-city bus (maybe half-hour journey). I got on (able-bodied late-twenties female), and a young man got up and offered me his seat. I tend to be quite shy, so rather than saying no and embarrassing him, I took the offer in the spirit it was intended (he looked to be from a culture where this is still a thing), smiled and thanked him.

A few stops later, an elderly man got onto the bus and I stood up and offered him the seat. He smiled and accepted it.

Next stop, a heavily pregnant woman got on and HE got up and offered her the seat.

As I recall, it ended with an elderly lady with a stick getting on and the pregnant woman gave her the seat. Talk about a well-exchanged seat by the time we were all done. Rare example of a virtuous circle and all though.

I may be off slightly on my order of events here, but it was a while ago. Still, it was quite funny at the time.

Is standing up for children on public transport now the norm?

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