Is standing up for children on public transport now the norm?

Digs · 15-04-2016 01:40PM

I'm confused by this thread. Are people under the impression people offer their seats to the elderly, pregnant and otherwise less able bodied people these days? The vast vast majority of people don't, when there is a visible "disability" anymore and I'm saying that with experience. I'm 32 weeks pregnant, luas green line every morning at 8am and home at 5pm. The odd bus journey too. I can without exaggeration count on one hand the amount of times I've been offered a seat. I don't feel more entitled to a seat because I'm carrying my precious snowflake who I'd like everyone to stand back for, however, my centre of balance is off, I literally have a bump which holds a small baby and chances are if I fall from a jerk in the luas, get dug in the stomach from a bag (which people refuse to take off their backs) or get pushed into a bar or squashed up against a pole the effects on me are more than likely more serious than an able bodied person. It's just good manners and how I was raised, to give my seat up for someone who needs it more...

I was recently on the bus home, managed to get an empty seat. A man, who had to be in his 80's shuffled on with shopping bags and proceeded to stand in the centre aisle as there were no seats. I waited about a minute before I stood up and offered him my seat, he was mortified and refused point black to take it "from a lady in my condition", a lovely man, but a gentleman and refused to sit. I sat back down fully expecting someone else to jump up, but no, that poor man was left to sway and jerk in the aisle while plenty people young and middle aged didn't move a muscle. I was absolutely livid and really hated my fellow humans at that point.

I get the pregnancy thing to a certain extent (although I completely disagree with it) some people have never been pregnant, don't want to be or won't ever be (men) so don't understand why a pregnant women would need a seat but an elderly man, I just don't get it. Most of us are going to get old and if we can't respect our elders...

What I mean from the above is if people don't consider it necessary to offer up their seat to people with a visible reason I feel for people young or old who's reason is invisible and has to ask for it.

c68zapdsm5i1ru · 15-04-2016 01:40PM

I got the bus to school everyday from the age of 7. We were always expected to stand for older people and none of us had problems keeping our balance. I totally take the point about children with a medical condition but your average child should be well capable of holding onto a rail and holding their balance.

I think some parents have lost the plot where their kids are concerned. I fear for how those children will cope out in the big bad world.

Keane2baMused · 15-04-2016 01:41PM

Graham wrote: »

And at no point did I suggest that was inappropriate.

For some reason the apparent recent awareness of random-falling-over syndrome in children should somehow have changed the behaviour of fellow passengers from when I was a child where presumably randomly falling over children were just left on the floor of the bus. To be honest I could be wrong, I'm still not sure what point was trying to be made.

You asked was their an epidemic of balance problems in children since you left school.

I pointed out there are lots of children who have gone undiagnosed in the past who do have serious balance problems but comments like yours and the 'get out and play attitude' completely undermines that fact.

The back in my day brigade seem to have a chip on their shoulder when society inevitably has to (or should) become more accommodating to those in need.

12Phase · 15-04-2016 01:42PM

biko wrote: »

Small kids shouldn't be on buses unless they fit into the owner's handbag.

You're thinking budget airlines!

JustShon · 15-04-2016 01:43PM

12Phase wrote: »

You're thinking budget airlines!

Bullsh1t, you have to check in your handbag for a fee of however much you have on you at the time.

c68zapdsm5i1ru · 15-04-2016 01:47PM

Digs wrote: »

I'm confused by this thread. Are people under the impression people offer their seats to the elderly, pregnant and otherwise less able bodied people these days? The vast vast majority of people don't, when there is a visible "disability" anymore and I'm saying that with experience. I'm 32 weeks pregnant, luas green line every morning at 8am and home at 5pm. The odd bus journey too. I can without exaggeration count on one hand the amount of times I've been offered a seat. I don't feel more entitled to a seat because I'm carrying my precious snowflake who I'd like everyone to stand back for, however, my centre of balance is off, I literally have a bump which holds a small baby and chances are if I fall from a jerk in the luas, get dug in the stomach from a bag (which people refuse to take off their backs) or get pushed into a bar or squashed up against a pole the effects on me are more than likely more serious than an able bodied person. It's just good manners and how I was raised, to give my seat up for someone who needs it more...

I was recently on the bus home, managed to get an empty seat. A man, who had to be in his 80's shuffled on with shopping bags and proceeded to stand in the centre aisle as there were no seats. I waited about a minute before I stood up and offered him my seat, he was mortified and refused point black to take it "from a lady in my condition", a lovely man, but a gentleman and refused to sit. I sat back down fully expecting someone else to jump up, but no, that poor man was left to sway and jerk in the aisle while plenty people young and middle aged didn't move a muscle. I was absolutely livid and really hated my fellow humans at that point.

I get the pregnancy thing to a certain extent (although I completely disagree with it) some people have never been pregnant, don't want to be or won't ever be (men) so don't understand why a pregnant women would need a seat but an elderly man, I just don't get it. Most of us are going to get old and if we can't respect our elders...

What I mean from the above is if people don't consider it necessary to offer up their seat to people with a visible reason I feel for people young or old who's reason is invisible and has to ask for it.

Totally agree with this. Some of the users of the green line Luas must be amongst the rudest, most self absorbed and inconsiderate people in the country. I have seen elderly people standing while smsll children sprawl comfortably on a seat to themselves their mother not even thinking to lift them onto her lap and young men practically pushing pregnant women out of the way to race for the last seat.

FizzleSticks · 15-04-2016 01:56PM

This post has been deleted.

JustShon · 15-04-2016 01:58PM

FizzleSticks wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Also if they're standing, the first thing they're likely to hit is another person. If they're sitting then that's a case of head meets back of seat in front of them, usually with a steel handrail attached.

Graham · 15-04-2016 02:00PM

Keane2baMused wrote: »

You asked was their an epidemic of balance problems in children since you left school.

I pointed out there are lots of children who have gone undiagnosed in the past who do have serious balance problems but comments like yours and the 'get out and play attitude' completely undermines that fact.

The back in my day brigade seem to have a chip on their shoulder when society inevitably has to (or should) become more accommodating to those in need.

It may come as a surprise to you to learn that there is no such chip on anyones shoulder. Had a child demonstrated balance problems there would have been appropriate reactions, I don't know why you would assume otherwise.

c68zapdsm5i1ru · 15-04-2016 02:03PM

I don't think anyone on here is objecting to children with conditions or disabilities needing a seat and their parent politely requesting one, with a brief explanation.

It's the attitude, by some parents, that their child up to about 10-12 years of age should always be offered a seat because they shouldn't be expected to hold their balance on a moving bus or train that is causing some (myself included) to raise our eyebrows.

traprunner · 15-04-2016 02:04PM

Graham wrote: »

At the same time we can't base our actions towards entire sections of the population (children) on the basis that a handful may have some non-evident ailment. If we were to start that approach we would never allow any children to stand-up at all.

The dangerization of being a child is more evident in recent years. Sure they can't walk 100 metres on a footpath outside school without requiring hi-viz.

armaghlad · 15-04-2016 02:05PM

The term "bus ****" rings true, reading some of the posts on this thread. Big ****ing deal you offered your seat up when you were 8 cos yer mammy made ya. If the bus was on fire would you also escape before letting a child out?

As someone who was involved in a fatal accident, on a bus, I would 100% give my seat to child. I was flung halfway down the bus and only for the design of the bus interior (it was a coach) and the number of school bags that broke my fall, I could have been seriously injured.

Keane2baMused · 15-04-2016 02:07PM

Graham wrote: »

It may come as a surprise to you to learn that there is no such chip on anyones shoulder. Had a child demonstrated balance problems there would have been appropriate reactions, I don't know why you would assume otherwise.

Not in my experience and it's not evident by some of the responses here.

Graham · 15-04-2016 02:08PM

Kenny Putrid Tux wrote: »

It's the attitude, by some parents, that their child up to about 10-12 years of age should always be offered a seat because they shouldn't be expected to hold their balance on a moving bus or train that is causing some (myself included) to raise our eyebrows.

+1

That point appears to have completely missed the outrage-seekers holding the won't-somebody-think-of-the-children posters.

Keane2baMused · 15-04-2016 02:09PM

traprunner wrote: »

The dangerization of being a child is more evident in recent years. Sure they can't walk 100 metres on a footpath outside school without requiring hi-viz.

You'd be surprised to hear that's also to protect drivers not just the little darlings!!

Graham · 15-04-2016 02:10PM

Keane2baMused wrote: »

Not in my experience and it's not evident by some of the responses here.

You might consider not projecting your experiences with some people onto everyone else.

traprunner · 15-04-2016 02:12PM

Keane2baMused wrote: »

You'd be surprised to hear that's also to protect drivers not just the little darlings!!

Sure drivers don't have to user their eyes if the current victim blaming on the roads is to believed. It was their fault that I didn't see the pedestrian/cyclist/cement truck....they weren't wearing hi-viz.

JustShon · 15-04-2016 02:12PM

Keane2baMused wrote: »

Not in my experience and it's not evident by some of the responses here.

I think if I noticed a child visibly stumbling around the place I'd offer my seat. Like if it was really obvious they were struggling. Hell I'd do it for an adult too if they looked like they were about to faceplant any second.

My problem is that I tend not to be paying attention to my surroundings on a bus, so I could have a chap with no legs glaring at me for a seat and I wouldn't notice unless it was brought to my attention.

Graham · 15-04-2016 02:12PM

Keane2baMused wrote: »

You'd be surprised to hear that's also to protect drivers not just the little darlings!!

Good point, I always avoid driving on the footpath if it's occupied by a child in a hi-vis vest. :rolleyes:

Keane2baMused · 15-04-2016 02:14PM

Graham wrote: »

You might consider not projecting your experiences with some people onto everyone else.

So it's projecting because I am giving a direct example is it?

Unless I agree with you I'm wrong?!

Keane2baMused · 15-04-2016 02:16PM

Graham wrote: »

Good point, I always avoid driving on the footpath if it's occupied by a child in a hi-vis vest. :rolleyes:

Children don't step out on to the road where you live do they?

I have seen loads of near misses with young kids running on to roads from behind cars.

On a dark morning a high- vis may be the one thing that stops an accident.

But sure forget these new fangled safety measures. Why should cyclists bother with them either? They have cycle paths/ lanes now don't they!

c68zapdsm5i1ru · 15-04-2016 02:17PM

armaghlad wrote: »

The term "bus ****" rings true, reading some of the posts on this thread. Big ****ing deal you offered your seat up when you were 8 cos yer mammy made ya. If the bus was on fire would you also escape before letting a child out?

As someone who was involved in a fatal accident, on a bus, I would 100% give my seat to child. I was flung halfway down the bus and only for the design of the bus interior (it was a coach) and the number of school bags that broke my fall, I could have been seriously injured.

No one's 'boasting' about offering up their seats. We're simply pointing out that when we were children there was no common view that we needed a seat over and above adults, and we don't share that view now either.

There have been lots of adults injured while standing on buses as well. In fact an adult is far more likely to suffer from broken bones after a fall than a child.

traprunner · 15-04-2016 02:18PM

Keane2baMused wrote: »

Children don't step out on to the road where you live do they?

I have seen loads of near misses with young kids running on to roads from behind cars.

On a dark morning a high- vis may be the one thing that stops an accident.

But sure forget these new fangled safety measures. Why should cyclists bother with them either? They have cycle paths now don't they!

Why should drivers be absolved of the need to see?

Keane2baMused · 15-04-2016 02:19PM

Kenny Putrid Tux wrote: »

There have been lots of adults injured while standing on buses as well. In fact an adult is far more likely to suffer from broken bones after a fall than a child.

That's true but children's skulls are a lot more vulnerable than an adult.

Graham · 15-04-2016 02:19PM

Keane2baMused wrote: »

Children don't step out on to the road where you live do they?

I have seen loads of near misses with young kids running on to roads from behind cars.

On a dark morning a high- vis may be the one thing that stops an accident.

But sure forget these new fangled safety measures. Why should cyclists bother with them either? They have cycle paths now don't they!

It's a high vis vest you're talking about not a force-field, you are deluded if you think it's going to save a child stepping out into traffic from behind a car where no amount of hi-vis is going to make them visible.

Cyclists tend to wear them because they share the roads not the footpaths.

Keane2baMused · 15-04-2016 02:21PM

traprunner wrote: »

Why should drivers be absolved of the need to see?

The owness is on both. To make yourself visible as a pedestrian and as a driver to be vigilant.

Is that difficult to understand?

traprunner · 15-04-2016 02:21PM

Keane2baMused wrote: »

That's true but children's skulls are a lot more vulnerable than an adult.

They should all be wearing helmets....just in case. It would also protect from some older school teachers that would thump them on the back of the head (true story).

Graham · 15-04-2016 02:22PM

Keane2baMused wrote: »

So it's projecting because I am giving a direct example is it?

Unless I agree with you I'm wrong?!

No, I think you're wrong because for some reason you've decided to project your past experiences onto me and appear to be getting yourself into a right tizzy in the process.

Keane2baMused · 15-04-2016 02:23PM

Graham wrote: »

It's a high vis vest you're talking about not a force-field, you are deluded if you think it's going to save a child stepping out into traffic from behind a car where no amount of hi-vis is going to make them visible.

Cyclists tend to wear them because they share the roads not the footpaths.

Ok got it, a high vis for children is pointless. You should contact the RSA about that one.

JustShon · 15-04-2016 02:23PM

Keane2baMused wrote: »

That's true but children's skulls are a lot more vulnerable than an adult.

Look, I appreciate you're coming at this from a mother's point of view (or a gay dad? you mentioned you have a child with a male partner) but I fell plenty as a child, stood on most bus journeys and took many a knock, bump, cut etc.

I have never broken a bone and the only permanent skeleto-muscular damage I've ever received was as a result of an assault when I was 16.

A little tumble due to the bus braking suddenly isn't going to shatter a child's skull. A few shed tears never killed a child.

Is standing up for children on public transport now the norm?

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