Is standing up for children on public transport now the norm?

FizzleSticks · 15-04-2016 06:38AM

This post has been deleted.

c montgomery · 15-04-2016 06:46AM

Public transport, yuck !!

El_Duderino 09 · 15-04-2016 06:47AM

Children can stand. Jesus where did this desire to wrap children in cotton wool come from?

An alternative title for this thread could be 'Wagon gets on a packed bus and can't figure out why nobody wants to give their seat to her prescious little snowflake'.

JackHeuston wrote:

When I use public transportation I never sit down. You never know what people expect from you. It's much easier this way than to get the passive-aggressive looks from those who want your seat.

RayM wrote:

If a bus or train is in danger of filling up, I'll stand regardless - preferably near the door. Anything to avoid the awkwardness of trying to decide if someone is old enough or pregnant enough to give up my seat for.

Sh1tbag OToole wrote:

Easier.to just sit down and 'fall asleep' straight away

I think ye have little to worry about.

I use public transport every day and wouldn't dream of standing if here's an available seat. If someone obviously needs a seat, I offer but it's rare and not worth worrying about. Definately not worth standing just to be on the safe side.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k · 15-04-2016 08:24AM

Neyite wrote: »

As soon as my child is old enough to stand holding on to a bar, then he will give up his seat too. Because he's able bodied, and its a kind thing to do.

We have to watch out for hidden disabilites though. You've said you'd sit in your seat and laugh if a child who could walk needed it but what if that child was January's child? I've met that little sweetie and you would not know she has physical difficulties. And a lot of people are like this. So If someone asked me for my seat, and seemed able bodied, I'd assume a hidden disability or that they are currently in some sort of pain.
Worst case scenario, I'm kind to a chancer. Meh. 5 stops down the line I'll get my seat back again.

...THAT I PUSHED OUT OF MY VAGINA WITHOUT PAIN RELIEF,. DID I MENTION THAT I HAD NO PAIN RELIEF ON POPPY? AND SHE IS TWELVE AND WE ARE DOING EXTENDED BREASTFEEDING AMINTIGREATALTOGETHER.

That hidden disability is a two way street though. I'm in my twenties. Don't look like there's anything wrong with me and most of the time there's not. But on occasion, i get bouts of sciatica. That itself is bad enough, but sometimes my back "locks" which means I can't move. I can't stand up straight, I can't sit up, I can't bend over. No matter what I do it feels like my legs are going to give way underneath me. It usually remedies itself once I get a needle in my bum and a Valium to relax the muscles but it's happened to me in work a few times. I need to get to the station to get home, but I can't get a taxi because I can't bend over, or get into the car. I'll get on the bus and when it eases up a little bit then I can sit down. If someone asked me to move for their child after all that I'd be snapping.

Though that said, nobody really wants to give seats anymore, even when clearly someone needs it more. Referring back to that incident on the bus, one evening I got on, it was the worst it has ever been. I was standing on the bus, trying to hold back tears (at this stage I wouldn't have been able to sit anyway so didn't need a seat) my back was completely spasming, i was really far from home, on a bus and panicking id miss my train all while I couldn't even stand up on my own.
Anytime I looked around the bus, it was just people who'd look away to avoid eyecontact. Half way through my trip, this lady came down the stairs of the bus, and asked me if I was okay. Only then did a man offer me his seat, which I thanked him for but declined as I couldn't actually sit.

I'm a regular ranter about public transport but to be fair, it's always the scumbags/junkies that I see on the luas that'll get up and offer women or old people their seats. It's very rare you'd see men do it, and young women would be after the scumbags.

One eyed Jack · 15-04-2016 09:32AM

I don't know if I'd say it's the norm, but I'm not so attached to a seat that I wouldn't give it up for a child. I'd always just offer anyway just to make things easier on the adult with the child. I dunno, me personally, I just wouldn't feel right about sitting there while I know I could have made someone's day just that little bit easier.

silverharp · 15-04-2016 09:39AM

No , if the kid is able to stand they stand , not something I have ever seen though. I'd see it as good practice for the kid.

syklops · 15-04-2016 09:43AM

You must be seriously strong or grip the bar like a vice grip. In a crash I would go flying and I'm 100 kilos.

Lollipops23 · 15-04-2016 10:08AM

I have MS and can often lack confidence on my feet if the bus is moving. I look perfectly healthy. I'll happily give up my seat for an elderly/pregnant person, but an able-bodied 12 year old can f**k right off if they think they're getting my seat.

I'll cheerfully explain my reasons if they ask, but it's never come up.

15-04-2016 10:10AM

If I see anyone - during the journey or in the hypothetical event of an accident on the journey - who I deem to be someone who would benefit from the seat more than I - then I will give it to them. Regardless of age - race - colour - size - or sex. I would not do it just because someone is a woman - or refrain from doing it just because someone is a child. It is a person by person choice - not a category choice - for me.

Neyite · 15-04-2016 10:12AM

Evelyn Short Pidgin wrote: »

If the parent wants to explain to me why their child should have a seat let them by all means and I will judge if its a good enough reason or not.

You'd judge if its a good enough reason or not? What a nasty attitude.
Why should anyone have to explain their personal medical information to a stranger on a packed bus? You want a doctors cert too?? What a sad and disgusting attitude to have towards others.

LexieOnRale wrote: »

That hidden disability is a two way street though. I'm in my twenties. Don't look like there's anything wrong with me and most of the time there's not. But on occasion, i get bouts of sciatica. That itself is bad enough, but sometimes my back "locks" which means I can't move. I can't stand up straight, I can't sit up, I can't bend over. No matter what I do it feels like my legs are going to give way underneath me. It usually remedies itself once I get a needle in my bum and a Valium to relax the muscles but it's happened to me in work a few times. I need to get to the station to get home, but I can't get a taxi because I can't bend over, or get into the car. I'll get on the bus and when it eases up a little bit then I can sit down. If someone asked me to move for their child after all that I'd be snapping.

If you asked me politely for my seat, I'd happily give it up. No need to explain a thing, just "would you mind giving me your seat, I've a medical condition" That's enough for me. If you were simply loaded down with bags, I'd offer you my seat.

Several family members have disabilities. Some are obvious, others are hidden. And I'd be very grateful if someone offered them any assistance when out and about. Even the most basic of tasks or trips could involve major effort on their part and leave them in pain and exhausted afterwards.

Kindness doesn't cost anything.

El_Duderino 09 · 15-04-2016 10:46AM

syklops wrote:

You must be seriously strong or grip the bar like a vice grip. In a crash I would go flying and I'm 100 kilos.

I couldn't help thinking this. It's hardly worth worrying about a crash like that. The best solution would be to install seat belts on busses because in a high speed crash, we're all in trouble. If you want to give up a seat for that reason, go ahead but I don't think it should be a generally accepted rule.

Neyite wrote:

You'd judge if its a good enough reason or not? What a nasty attitude. Why should anyone have to explain their personal medical information to a stranger on a packed bus? You want a doctors cert too?? What a sad and disgusting attitude to have towards others.

Neyite wrote:

If you asked me politely for my seat, I'd happily give it up. No need to explain a thing, just "would you mind giving me your seat, I've a medical condition" That's enough for me. If you were simply loaded down with bags, I'd offer you my seat.

A medical reason is good enough. I'm not a doctor so there's no point in me asking for details of the condition.

If you ask me for my seat because you have a medical condition, you can have the seat. If you just glare at people and don't ask fir the seat, then you're just being weird.

Maximus Alexander · 15-04-2016 11:01AM

Does anyone do the exact opposite?

You get on a bus and there are children in some of the seats, but you're bigger and stronger than them, so you just pick them up and move them out of the way and then sit down?

silverharp · 15-04-2016 11:03AM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

If you ask me for my seat because you have a medical condition, you can have the seat. If you just glare at people and don't ask fir the seat, then you're just being weird.

its the passive aggressive stuff which shouldn't be rewarded, its anti social

Keane2baMused · 15-04-2016 11:10AM

LexieOnRale wrote: »

Years ago a woman asked me to move from my seat on the luas for her grandchild. I said no.

If a child is on crutches, in a cast, or looks like they need to sit down then they can have my seat.
If they're being lazy spoilt asses then no they can't have my seat because I'm also a lazy ass.

I'd rather give my seat to someone who actually needs it, than to someone who's used to being pandered to.

Plenty of children (and adults) who have disabilities that are 'invisible' who need seats on PT. But sure once they 'look grand' they don't need it....

JustShon · 15-04-2016 11:11AM

Keane2baMused wrote: »

Plenty of children (and adults) who have disabilities that are 'invisible' who need seats on PT. But sure once they 'look grand' they don't need it....

At which point the person needing the seat should inform the seated person of the disability. Not just demand the seat with no reason.

IrishZeus · 15-04-2016 11:16AM

Not a chance I would automatically give up my seat for an older child, but would happily do so if I got the feeling that they needed or if a parent asked in such a way that it was clear the child wasn't just lazy. I've always given my seat up for someone who needs it - since I was 6 or 7 I'd say - whether it be some older/pregnant/disabled etc. Was the way I was raised and having kids of my own, they will be rasied the exact same when old enough.

My wife is currently 8.5 months pregnant and was using public transport every day, either bus or the green luas line. Once, and once only, was she offered a seat and this was on red luas line by a guy she openly admitted she would have considered a "scumbag" based on appearance.

I find it utterly disgraceful to see people avoiding looking at those who physically need a seat because they are too lazy to get off their arses for a few stops. In the last few months, I think the only time I have seen anyone offer a seat on the green luas was an elderly man giving it up to a pregnant women. I think he genuinely shamed the young lads/lasses sitting around him. Never been so tempted to tell a bunch of strangers that they should be ashamed of themselves.

Chivalry isn't dead. Yet.

Keane2baMused · 15-04-2016 11:17AM

Neyite wrote: »

As soon as my child is old enough to stand holding on to a bar, then he will give up his seat too. Because he's able bodied, and its a kind thing to do.

We have to watch out for hidden disabilites though. You've said you'd sit in your seat and laugh if a child who could walk needed it but what if that child was January's child? I've met that little sweetie and you would not know she has physical difficulties. And a lot of people are like this. So If someone asked me for my seat, and seemed able bodied, I'd assume a hidden disability or that they are currently in some sort of pain.
Worst case scenario, I'm kind to a chancer. Meh. 5 stops down the line I'll get my seat back again.

This. My child also has a so coined 'hidden disability'.

I know first hand what it's like to be on the receiving end of the looks, stares and mutters of that child needs manners put on him making all that racket and jumping around. The truth behind it is he has a spectrum disorder, balance and co-ordination problems and difficulty with fine and gross motor skills.

But he looks like a 'typical' child to everyone else. I have never asked nor expect a seat to be given to him if we are on public transport but for it to be offered is really really appreciated.

I would also always give up my seat for children his age and younger. To my mind I wouldn't let a child stand up in a car so why would I expect them to on a bus where they could be flung around the place if the driver breaks hard?!

Keane2baMused · 15-04-2016 11:19AM

JustShon wrote: »

At which point the person needing the seat should inform the seated person of the disability. Not just demand the seat with no reason.

So everyone has to make an announcement that they have a disability and need a seat?

Then if they do that it would/ could be classed as looking for special treatment so it's a no-win situation. Also who mentioned demanding anything?

15-04-2016 11:19AM

Neyite wrote: »

You'd judge if its a good enough reason or not? What a nasty attitude.
Why should anyone have to explain their personal medical information to a stranger on a packed bus? You want a doctors cert too?? What a sad and disgusting attitude to have towards others.

What's nasty about it? I have no time whatsoever for parents who think their little angel is too good to stand up and should be entitled to a seat, or any other special treatment in other areas of life. This mollycoddling kids is doing them no good whatsoever.

When I look at what I was doing at 8 or 10 years old compared to the wrapped in cottonwool life's of some kids nowadays I can only shake my head.

As for expaining, where are you going with needing a doctors cert.

Patent says, "hi would you mind if my son sits down he isn't feeling well or he isn't great on his feet" no problem.

Parent "my child is a child I don't want him standing can he have your seat" not a chance. Etc etc.

JustShon · 15-04-2016 11:22AM

Keane2baMused wrote: »

So everyone has to make an announcement that they have a disability and need a seat?

Then if they do that it would/ could be classed as looking for special treatment so it's a no-win situation. Also who mentioned demanding anything?

I'll counter your first question with a question of my own: Should I assume everyone who asks for my seat on public transport is disabled and not just an entitled pr1ck then?

I'd never personally class it as looking for special treatment, if you have a disability that makes it difficult, uncomfortable or outright impossible for you to remain standing on public transport I'll give up my seat every time.

Anyone who calls it "looking for special treatment" is a Grade A arsehole.

Edit: I'm not suggesting you announce the disability to the entire bus, but a simple "Excuse me, I / my child / my friend / this person here has *insert condition* and needs a seat, would you mind moving?"

Keane2baMused · 15-04-2016 11:25AM

JustShon wrote: »

IShould I assume everyone who asks for my seat on public transport is disabled and not just an entitled pr1ck then?

I'd never personally class it as looking for special treatment, if you have a disability that makes it difficult, uncomfortable or outright impossible for you to remain standing on public transport I'll give up my seat every time.

Anyone who calls it "looking for special treatment" is a Grade A arsehole.

So how do you come to the conclusion that they have a disability or just being as you say "an entitled pr1ck"?

Do you make an 'educated' guess based on how they look or do you ask them if they have a disability that means they need it?

One eyed Jack · 15-04-2016 11:27AM

Keane2baMused wrote: »

So everyone has to make an announcement that they have a disability and need a seat?

Then if they do that it would/ could be classed as looking for special treatment so it's a no-win situation. Also who mentioned demanding anything?

How can you honestly expect someone to be aware of a disability that is invisible? An announcement would help to make someone aware of something they can't see. They aren't being inconsiderate if they aren't aware that something should be considered.

It's looking for special treatment because of a medical condition, of course that's not the same as someone looking for special treatment for no reason.

JustShon · 15-04-2016 11:28AM

Keane2baMused wrote: »

So how do you come to the conclusion that they have a disability or just being as you say "an entitled pr1ck"?

Do you make an 'educated' guess based on how they look or do you ask them if they have a disability that means they need it?

That's the question I asked you. How do you tell? Should everyone always give up a seat on public transport when asked?

By all means ignore the rest of my post.

failinis · 15-04-2016 11:28AM

JustShon wrote: »

Edit: I'm not suggesting you announce the disability to the entire bus, but a simple "Excuse me, I / my child / my friend / this person here has *insert condition* and needs a seat, would you mind moving?"

I highly doubt most people with a hidden disability would love to even tell a perfect stranger what it is. And in many cases most people would not know the conditions anyway.
A "Excuse me I have a medical condition, please may I have a seat" should enough, unless you are judging if they are "sick enough".

JustShon · 15-04-2016 11:29AM

failinis wrote: »

I highly doubt most people with a hidden disability would love to even tell a perfect stranger what it is. And in many cases most people would not know the conditions anyway.
A "Excuse me I have a medical condition, please may I have a seat" should enough, unless you are judging if they are "sick enough".

Yeah sure, fair point. I'd give up my seat for "I have a medical condition" without pause.

failinis · 15-04-2016 11:32AM

JustShon wrote: »

Yeah sure, fair point. I'd give up my seat for "I have a medical condition" without pause.

I may have been pedantic, just your post I quoted suggested you needed to also know the condition so was wondering if it was actually needed.

El_Duderino 09 · 15-04-2016 11:33AM

Keane2baMused wrote:

I would also always give up my seat for children his age and younger. To my mind I wouldn't let a child stand up in a car so why would I expect them to on a bus where they could be flung around the place if the driver breaks hard?!

Would you encourage an adult to stand in a car? I guess you wouldn't. I wouldn't encourage anyone to not wear a seat belt in a car but it's not a big issue on a bus.

By all means give up your seat to stop the epaemic of children flying through bus windscreens, if you think it's necessary and it makes you feel better. Just as long as you don't expect everyone else to play along.

Keane2baMused · 15-04-2016 11:34AM

JustShon wrote: »

Edit: I'm not suggesting you announce the disability to the entire bus, but a simple "Excuse me, I / my child / my friend / this person here has *insert condition* and needs a seat, would you mind moving?"

I do get that but it's not as simple as that always. Many don't want to have to use the 'disability card'. Especially to a perfect stranger when they have no idea what their reaction will be.

Also the tendency for tolerance is towards those with obvious disabilities than those with less obvious ones such as autism.

People who have no experience with developmental disorders may just think they are just being 'self entitled. Now I don't believe such a diagnosis automatically grants the person a seat on a bus but I think common sense should prevail.

I rarely make it known my child has a disability unless I really need to. Nothing to do with hiding the fact but I want to give him as much independence as possible as he grows up and only take allowances where absolutely needed.

JustShon · 15-04-2016 11:34AM

failinis wrote: »

I may have been pedantic, just your post I quoted suggested you needed to also know the condition so was wondering if it was actually needed.

Not at all. I certainly didn't intend that anyway. I was just giving an example of how to politely approach someone about giving up their seat without "announcing it" as another poster put it.

I certainly wouldn't expect someone to give me their medical history.

El_Duderino 09 · 15-04-2016 11:38AM

Keane2baMused wrote:

So everyone has to make an announcement that they have a disability and need a seat?

I would suggest being tactful about it but definately using your words. The Irish approach of glaring and thinking nasty thoughts about the person for not giving up their seat, isn't very effective communication unfortunately.

As for looking for special treatment. I suppose it is looking for special treatment - due to special circumstances. Looking for special treatment without giving any information about circumstances is silly because humans aren't telepathic.

Is standing up for children on public transport now the norm?

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