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building a sheep shed with the grant

  • 20-02-2016 03:48AM
    #1
    roosky
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,038 ✭✭✭


    Hi all,

    Im in the early stages of planning a shed for sheep.

    I want your opinions and ideas on things to do and pitt falls to avoid.

    My plan is a four bay double with plastic slats and a wide feed passage for lambing pens

    Also planning on deep tanks 8 ft to allow the possibility of housing cattle

    Anyone putting up a sheep shed to grant spec and if so can you give ideas of prices


«13

Comments

  • #2
    Jack180570
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 349 ✭✭Jack180570


    roosky wrote: »
    Hi all,

    Im in the early stages of planning a shed for sheep.

    I want your opinions and ideas on things to do and pitt falls to avoid.

    My plan is a four bay double with plastic slats and a wide feed passage for lambing pens

    Also planning on deep tanks 8 ft to allow the possibility of housing cattle

    Anyone putting up a sheep shed to grant spec and if so can you give ideas of prices

    Have applied for PP for a 70 x 70 sheep shed and will apply for a grant once planning comes through. No great idea on costs yet and still debating if I will get a contractor to erect or buy the shed precut from one of the steel suppliers and get a local contractor to erect it.
    Ours will be different to yours as it will be a loose shed with straw bed and 2 precast 1800 gal effluent tanks..
    Also planning a wide feed passage (in case we buy a diet feeder) and walk through meal feeders as pen dividers.
    We are in organic so need a lot of space in the pens (1.5m2/ewe)

    Currently feeding them in loose sheds with round bale feeders and letting them out for meal feeding

    Would welcome ideas from other sheep farmers and maybe a few pics of their sheds :-)


  • #3
    Username John
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,237 ✭✭✭Username John


    Jack180570 wrote: »
    Have applied for PP for a 70 x 70 sheep shed and will apply for a grant once planning comes through. No great idea on costs yet and still debating if I will get a contractor to erect or buy the shed precut from one of the steel suppliers and get a local contractor to erect it.
    Ours will be different to yours as it will be a loose shed with straw bed and 2 precast 1800 gal effluent tanks..
    Also planning a wide feed passage (in case we buy a diet feeder) and walk through meal feeders as pen dividers.
    We are in organic so need a lot of space in the pens (1.5m2/ewe)

    Currently feeding them in loose sheds with round bale feeders and letting them out for meal feeding

    Would welcome ideas from other sheep farmers and maybe a few pics of their sheds :-)

    Would they have any issues with their feet from going in and out?

    And is that sand or sawdust they're in the last pic?


  • #4
    Jack180570
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 349 ✭✭Jack180570


    Username John wrote: »
    Would they have any issues with their feet from going in and out?

    And is that sand or sawdust they're in the last pic?

    Feet are good so far, we stand them in bluestone footbath for about 5min every month or so but it is far from ideal feeding them outside.

    Bedded on sawdust over a 4-5inch layer of screenings from firewood which consists of a good amount of small firewood splinters and bark. Its great for drainage and keeps the bed dry, then top up with sawdust which is great too.

    We are out of the sawdust now and gone to straw and not finding it as good. A lot of it is down to how dry the silage/haylage is, very easy to keep good bed if dry and almost impossible if wet.


  • #5
    drive it
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 140 ✭✭drive it


    Jack180570 wrote: »
    Feet are good so far, we stand them in bluestone footbath for about 5min every month or so but it is far from ideal feeding them outside.

    Bedded on sawdust over a 4-5inch layer of screenings from firewood which consists of a good amount of small firewood splinters and bark. Its great for drainage and keeps the bed dry, then top up with sawdust which is great too.

    We are out of the sawdust now and gone to straw and not finding it as good. A lot of it is down to how dry the silage/haylage is, very easy to keep good bed if dry and almost impossible if wet.[

    How much bluestone to water do you mix?


  • #6
    drive it
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 140 ✭✭drive it


    Sorry to jump in on the thread but I am in the middle of planing a shed and was leaning to have a stone floor instead of a concrete one. Would you use less straw with a stone floor as there should be better soakage or is there any difference?


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  • #7
    Username John
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,237 ✭✭✭Username John


    drive it wrote: »
    Sorry to jump in on the thread but I am in the middle of planing a shed and was leaning to have a stone floor instead of a concrete one. Would you use less straw with a stone floor as there should be better soakage or is there any difference?

    We have a hardcore floor in the shed, I think it's better for soakage. Not sure you'd use less straw, you prob would but I like to have a good deep bed of straw...

    Is it allowed now to build sheds for animals without concrete floors? It's a definite no no for grant aided sheds I imagine?


  • #8
    farawaygrass
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,052 ✭✭✭farawaygrass


    Must be a bitch cleaning them out? Especially if a big shed


  • #9
    ganmo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,748 ✭✭✭ganmo


    We've 2 sheds one shed with a concrete floor and the other with a hard packed clay floor
    The concrete one is not much wetter than the other but it's way easier to clear out


  • #10
    Username John
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,237 ✭✭✭Username John


    farawaygrass wrote: »
    Must be a bitch cleaning them out? Especially if a big shed
    ganmo wrote: »
    We've 2 sheds one shed with a concrete floor and the other with a hard packed clay floor
    The concrete one is not much wetter than the other but it's way easier to clear out

    Shed either gets cleaned out by hand (its not a big shed) ;)

    Or contractor with bobcat and tine grab - which does a good enough job...

    To be honest, concrete would be a nicer job, but twould be fairly low down on the list of places to spend money (I'd prob add to the shed, before I'd put in a floor into it to be honest)


  • #11
    kk.man
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,101 ✭✭✭kk.man


    Username John wrote: »
    We have a hardcore floor in the shed, I think it's better for soakage. Not sure you'd use less straw, you prob would but I like to have a good deep bed of straw...

    Is it allowed now to build sheds for animals without concrete floors? It's a definite no no for grant aided sheds I imagine?

    Believe it or not Dept allow non concrete floors for sheep... Teagasc guy told me a few months back but you can't put cattle in them


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  • #12
    ganmo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,748 ✭✭✭ganmo


    Username John wrote: »
    Shed either gets cleaned out by hand (its not a big shed) ;)

    Or contractor with bobcat and tine grab - which does a good enough job...

    To be honest, concrete would be a nicer job, but twould be fairly low down on the list of places to spend money (I'd prob add to the shed, before I'd put in a floor into it to be honest)

    I'm like yourself, I'd like to see a concrete floor in the shed, but it'd be well down the list of preferences

    there's some straw in the corner of it that hasn't seen the light of day in a long time, there's a old beet pulper in there too that's seen better days


  • #13
    Cran
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,271 ✭✭✭Cran


    kk.man wrote: »
    Believe it or not Dept allow non concrete floors for sheep... Teagasc guy told me a few months back but you can't put cattle in them

    Really I thought was a cross compliance requirement now for all new buildings to have concrete? Would make tunnels cheap option still


  • #14
    Jack180570
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 349 ✭✭Jack180570


    drive it wrote: »
    Jack180570 wrote: »
    Feet are good so far, we stand them in bluestone footbath for about 5min every month or so but it is far from ideal feeding them outside.

    Bedded on sawdust over a 4-5inch layer of screenings from firewood which consists of a good amount of small firewood splinters and bark. Its great for drainage and keeps the bed dry, then top up with sawdust which is great too.

    We are out of the sawdust now and gone to straw and not finding it as good. A lot of it is down to how dry the silage/haylage is, very easy to keep good bed if dry and almost impossible if wet.[

    How much bluestone to water do you mix?

    Hi Drive it... only saw your post now...
    We mix 2kg of bluestone with 20ltrs of very hot water (c.80 deg C) from the stove in the 20ltr drums... half fill the drums and then add the 2kg... close and shake very well for 30 sec releasing the hot air about twice so as to make sure it doesnt burst...

    We have 3 plastic footbaths in the race and about 5 drums will do about 80 sheep...

    Very important that the bluestone is the pentahydrate (hope I spelled that correctly), as it is the easiest to dissolve... reading on the internet it seems that about half the bluestone used in footbath mixes is wasted because it is not properly dissolved, that is the first important thing..

    Second important thing we have found is that you have to stand them in the bath for about 5 min... previously we used to run them through the bath 5 or 6 times but it was almost useless...

    Only downside of using the bluestone is that it will rot the galv gates... a lot of farmers now use Zinc Sulphate as corrosion is not an issue with it.


  • #15
    Jack180570
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 349 ✭✭Jack180570


    roosky wrote: »
    Hi all,

    Im in the early stages of planning a shed for sheep.

    I want your opinions and ideas on things to do and pitt falls to avoid.

    My plan is a four bay double with plastic slats and a wide feed passage for lambing pens

    Also planning on deep tanks 8 ft to allow the possibility of housing cattle

    Anyone putting up a sheep shed to grant spec and if so can you give ideas of prices

    Hi Roosky... how are you getting on with planning the sheep shed? our planning is almost through for a 70W x 78L clearspan shed


  • #16
    roosky
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,038 ✭✭✭roosky


    Jack180570 wrote: »
    Hi Roosky... how are you getting on with planning the sheep shed? our planning is almost through for a 70W x 78L clearspan shed



    The planning is slow to be honest,

    I have been busy lambing so that has put a dampner on the shed side of things,

    I am now maybe considering just a concrete floor and allow the shed have other uses....maybe?

    Although the slats would be a hassle free low labour option


  • #17
    Username John
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,237 ✭✭✭Username John


    roosky wrote: »
    The planning is slow to be honest,

    I have been busy lambing so that has put a dampner on the shed side of things,

    I am now maybe considering just a concrete floor and allow the shed have other uses....maybe?

    Although the slats would be a hassle free low labour option

    How accessible / expensive is straw for you?


  • #18
    Jack180570
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 349 ✭✭Jack180570


    roosky wrote: »
    The planning is slow to be honest,

    I have been busy lambing so that has put a dampner on the shed side of things,

    I am now maybe considering just a concrete floor and allow the shed have other uses....maybe?

    Although the slats would be a hassle free low labour option

    Oh yes... lambing takes lots of time..
    What we are doing with the sheep shed is a clearspan with conc floor...
    I think that even if you didnt put in the conc floor at first but did go for the clearspan it would be a good priority as it gives lots of other options for use if its clearspan... you could come back later and put in the conc floor..

    Also just thinking about it, if you ever went for the organic scheme I think that slats are not favoured and if memory serves me right... the option to put straw down over the slats has been removed this year.

    Im not clear on how I will do the penning yet... is there much of a saving in making up ones own barriers versus buying the penning?


  • #19
    Username John
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,237 ✭✭✭Username John


    Jack180570 wrote: »
    Oh yes... lambing takes lots of time..
    What we are doing with the sheep shed is a clearspan with conc floor...
    I think that even if you didnt put in the conc floor at first but did go for the clearspan it would be a good priority as it gives lots of other options for use if its clearspan... you could come back later and put in the conc floor..

    Also just thinking about it, if you ever went for the organic scheme I think that slats are not favoured and if memory serves me right... the option to put straw down over the slats has been removed this year.

    Im not clear on how I will do the penning yet... is there much of a saving in making up ones own barriers versus buying the penning?

    Whats clearspan?

    I am not sure I am the right person to be commenting here, as I have only a little hobby flock... but sure I'll throw in my two cents... ;)

    I would have thought if you have dedicated lambing pens, then definitely home-making the sides, and then possibly buying a barrier / gate would be the best option?
    - It would be cheaper, to make yer own outa timber (I think 5ft gates are around 30 - 35euro are they?)
    - You could adapt them to suit your water needs (I am thinking of that sewer pipe for water)
    - You could use the front gates, when not lambing, to get more use out of them

    The only con I can think of is disease and timber? Would it be harder cleaned, and harbour nasties more?

    However - if like me, you are running a slap-dash kinda system, where you build lambing pens in the big pen, then would it make sense to have all 'proper' barriers / pens.
    - Where they all fit together properly
    - You can adapt / build / extend them as you want
    - Less hassle / weight, then trying to mess with timber gates and get a ewe and her lambs penned in

    But like I say - I am not really a proper farmer... Be interesting to see what the professionals think... :)


  • #20
    roosky
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,038 ✭✭✭roosky


    Username John wrote:
    How accessible / expensive is straw for you?


    Im in south leitrim so straw is about 25 to 30 euro for big bales.......prob a bit cheaper if bought a right time in bulk but transport is the big cost.........the bigger issue for me with straw is the extra labout as im part time


  • #21
    Jack180570
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 349 ✭✭Jack180570


    Username John wrote: »
    Whats clearspan?

    I am not sure I am the right person to be commenting here, as I have only a little hobby flock... but sure I'll throw in my two cents... ;)

    I would have thought if you have dedicated lambing pens, then definitely home-making the sides, and then possibly buying a barrier / gate would be the best option?
    - It would be cheaper, to make yer own outa timber (I think 5ft gates are around 30 - 35euro are they?)
    - You could adapt them to suit your water needs (I am thinking of that sewer pipe for water)
    - You could use the front gates, when not lambing, to get more use out of them

    The only con I can think of is disease and timber? Would it be harder cleaned, and harbour nasties more?

    However - if like me, you are running a slap-dash kinda system, where you build lambing pens in the big pen, then would it make sense to have all 'proper' barriers / pens.
    - Where they all fit together properly
    - You can adapt / build / extend them as you want
    - Less hassle / weight, then trying to mess with timber gates and get a ewe and her lambs penned in

    But like I say - I am not really a proper farmer... Be interesting to see what the professionals think... :)

    Thank for the feedback John and I think your are being far too modest :-)

    Clearspan is what we call a portal frame shed (no poles in the middle of the shed, just at the two sides and ends).

    The new shed is going to be located in the upper yard (about 500m away from the lower yard where the lambing shed/pens are.

    Our current system is that we house the ewes around xmas and then let them to grass a few days before they lamb.
    As they lamb we bring in the ewe and lamb(s) into the lambing shed for a day or two and then let them back out to different paddocks based on the no and sex of the lambs they had (sngl EL's - sngl RL's - twin EL's & mixed cpls - twin RL's)... Its a bit awkward and probably more work than it needs to be but we dont have the housing at the moment to do otherwise.

    I want to keep my options open on other uses for the shed which is why its a clearspan and also no permanent penning.

    What im thinking of doing is either drilling the conc floor to take galv pipes or putting steel pipes in the concrete that I can put in say a 1" blueband pipe.
    I could then tie gates to the BB pipes and these could serve as the two sides of the feed passage.
    Water could be supplied in standard plastic troughs.
    Pens could either be divided with walkthrough feeders or
    go down the road of a diet feeder and this would eliminate the need for walk through troughs and just use gates.... but then would there be an issue with overfeeding singles (or underfeeding doubles)?
    Bedding with straw using a strawchopper to blow in the straw?

    Is anyone using a diet feeder to feed sheep?
    How is it working?


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  • #22
    Username John
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,237 ✭✭✭Username John


    Jack180570 wrote: »
    Thank for the feedback John and I think your are being far too modest :-)

    Clearspan is what we call a portal frame shed (no poles in the middle of the shed, just at the two sides and ends).

    The new shed is going to be located in the upper yard (about 500m away from the lower yard where the lambing shed/pens are.

    Our current system is that we house the ewes around xmas and then let them to grass a few days before they lamb.
    As they lamb we bring in the ewe and lamb(s) into the lambing shed for a day or two and then let them back out to different paddocks based on the no and sex of the lambs they had (sngl EL's - sngl RL's - twin EL's & mixed cpls - twin RL's)... Its a bit awkward and probably more work than it needs to be but we dont have the housing at the moment to do otherwise.

    I want to keep my options open on other uses for the shed which is why its a clearspan and also no permanent penning.

    What im thinking of doing is either drilling the conc floor to take galv pipes or putting steel pipes in the concrete that I can put in say a 1" blueband pipe.
    I could then tie gates to the BB pipes and these could serve as the two sides of the feed passage.
    Water could be supplied in standard plastic troughs.
    Pens could either be divided with walkthrough feeders or
    go down the road of a diet feeder and this would eliminate the need for walk through troughs and just use gates.... but then would there be an issue with overfeeding singles (or underfeeding doubles)?
    Bedding with straw using a strawchopper to blow in the straw?

    Is anyone using a diet feeder to feed sheep?
    How is it working?

    Why build the shed away from the current lambing shed?
    Would you not use the current shed then - and move all lamb in operations to the new shed?

    This is a simple question I think - but if you are straw bedding, and feeding on a passage - how do you rise up the feeding space where the ewes stick their heads out - as the straw rises under them?
    Or do you clear out the space in front of the feed passage to never allow the straw to build up very high?

    Could the cost of a diet feeder be justified for sheep?
    I guess it depends on numbers, but you'd want a lot I would have thought...


  • #23
    serfspup
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 208 ✭✭serfspup


    how many sheep are you housing?

    diet feeder.JPG


  • #24
    Username John
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,237 ✭✭✭Username John


    serfspup wrote: »
    how many sheep are you housing?

    diet feeder.JPG

    I hear those old type Keenans can be tough on the body... :)


  • #25
    serfspup
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 208 ✭✭serfspup


    but they run on porridge and coffee so are 'low carbon' save a fortune on gym fees,as long as the oil is changed regularly not that severe on the body and very easy on the pocket.:) pulling the silage out of the bale the hardest part,feeding 350 a day handy enough


  • #26
    Jack180570
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 349 ✭✭Jack180570


    Username John wrote: »
    Why build the shed away from the current lambing shed?
    Would you not use the current shed then - and move all lamb in operations to the new shed?

    This is a simple question I think - but if you are straw bedding, and feeding on a passage - how do you rise up the feeding space where the ewes stick their heads out - as the straw rises under them?
    Or do you clear out the space in front of the feed passage to never allow the straw to build up very high?

    Could the cost of a diet feeder be justified for sheep?
    I guess it depends on numbers, but you'd want a lot I would have thought...

    Thanks again John... more thought provoking stuff...

    The initial/current plan for the new shed is that we will just winter the sheep in it for the pre-lambing period (Jan-Mar) and then lamb outside as we do now, bring them in one by one as they lamb. Its just with the lousy weather of the past few days I was beginning to wonder if it would be easier to lamb them indoors? but then again that as its problems too with trying to figure out who lambed what etc... I guess there are advantages and disadvantages to both systems.

    Regarding the location of the shed. I want/need to have it in the upper yard as it will have another purpose when the sheep are not being wintered in it.

    Regarding the bedding... its probably going to be a base of woodchip/cleanings/bark, topped up with sawdust and when the sawdust runs out it will be straw which will not be cleaned out until the sheep are let out, so the issue of a rising bed in the pens is real... had not thought of that....

    Based on that then my other option is to feed them like I did this year with round/square feeders for bales of haylage...
    Going with this option then it means I will need the walk through feeders for meals... will have to look at 'clip-on' meal feeders for the central passage which could be raised as the bedding builds up...

    I have a bit of thinking to do!


  • #27
    Jack180570
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 349 ✭✭Jack180570


    serfspup wrote: »
    how many sheep are you housing?

    diet feeder.JPG

    Have around 210/220 ewes and around 120 hoggets/yearlings


  • #28
    Jack180570
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 349 ✭✭Jack180570


    serfspup wrote: »
    but they run on porridge and coffee so are 'low carbon' save a fortune on gym fees,as long as the oil is changed regularly not that severe on the body and very easy on the pocket.:) pulling the silage out of the bale the hardest part,feeding 350 a day handy enough

    brilliant :D
    How many hours is it taking to feed silage and meals, and to keep them bedded? this year it was taking me 4-5hrs a day to look after the 350 (215 ewes + 135 yearlings)... looking for a way to make it easier!


  • #29
    Jack180570
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 349 ✭✭Jack180570


    roosky wrote: »
    Im in south leitrim so straw is about 25 to 30 euro for big bales.......prob a bit cheaper if bought a right time in bulk but transport is the big cost.........the bigger issue for me with straw is the extra labout as im part time

    Straw this year was 17e/bale delivered which I thought was not expensive...
    In West Limerick so not too far from the grain country of Cork so supply should not be an issue


  • #30
    rangler1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,497 ✭✭✭rangler1


    Jack180570 wrote: »
    brilliant :D
    How many hours is it taking to feed silage and meals, and to keep them bedded? this year it was taking me 4-5hrs a day to look after the 350 (215 ewes + 135 yearlings)... looking for a way to make it easier!

    Haven't fed silage/hay to sheep for ten years,
    If they're bedded every day, a pound of 15%p ration/day is enough to replace the silage.....a bit more expensive but a lot less work.
    Takes less than two hours/day here to feed and bed 500 ewes


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  • #31
    serfspup
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 208 ✭✭serfspup


    Jack180570 wrote: »
    brilliant :D
    How many hours is it taking to feed silage and meals, and to keep them bedded? this year it was taking me 4-5hrs a day to look after the 350 (215 ewes + 135 yearlings)... looking for a way to make it easier!

    meal is feed in minutes,45min to an hour for silage twice a day inc cutting blocks/bale,straw every 5days depending on weather foot bath ewes at the same time
    4-4-16 015.JPG


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