building a sheep shed with the grant

drive it

"Our current system is that we house the ewes around xmas and then let them to grass a few days before they lamb.
As they lamb we bring in the ewe and lamb(s) into the lambing shed for a day or two and then let them back out to different paddocks"

How do you find letting them out before they lamb do you have any problems with the change of diet just before they lamb as if all goes well I'll have a shed up this year and was going to try the same

Username John

Why would you have ewes in, then let them out for lambing, and then bring them in again?
It seems like a lot of extra work, at a busy time of year. And also added risk where you cant keep as good an eye on them if there was any issues during lambing?

Lambing out I can understand - if they were out all the time, as it reduces the need for sheds. But if you're having to house them beforehand anyways, then you have the additional cost of sheds anyways... and bringing them in afterwards means you have the overhead of pens and using shed space.

So - what are the benefits of doing this?

rangler1

Username John wrote: »

Why would you have ewes in, then let them out for lambing, and then bring them in again?
It seems like a lot of extra work, at a busy time of year. And also added risk where you cant keep as good an eye on them if there was any issues during lambing?

Lambing out I can understand - if they were out all the time, as it reduces the need for sheds. But if you're having to have them beforehand anyways, then you have the additional cost of sheds anyways... and bringing them in afterwards means you have the overhead of pens and using shed space.

So - what are the benefits of doing this?

A few years ago, i considered outdoor lambing...........for all of two minutes. :rolleyes:

Username John

Jack180570 wrote: »

Based on that then my other option is to feed them like I did this year with round/square feeders for bales of haylage...
Going with this option then it means I will need the walk through feeders for meals... will have to look at 'clip-on' meal feeders for the central passage which could be raised as the bedding builds up...

I have a bit of thinking to do!

I don't know much about diet feeders, or times to feed silage - but I would have thought that feeding silage in feeders as you do, and using the central passage for lambing pens would be the best use of space?
But
- Losing the central passage - would this cause issues for you for bedding ewes (getting in with a round bale of straw) I would have thought not, as however you get in with silage, you could get in with straw. But just thinking out loud moreso...
- I don't know how this stacks up for time to do the daily jobs when lambing?

Jack180570 wrote: »

then let them back out to different paddocks based on the no and sex of the lambs they had (sngl EL's - sngl RL's - twin EL's & mixed cpls - twin RL's)... Its a bit awkward and probably more work than it needs to be but we dont have the housing at the moment to do otherwise.

Why do you have so many groups? Why keep the Ram lambs and Ewe lambs seperate, etc?

Username John

I was thinking about this, and this is what I'd do - fairly similar to Jacks plan really...

Concrete foor, put in pipes in floor to make 15 x 15 pens - but put in holes every 13ft, then 2ft, then 13ft, then 2ft...
Get some welder lad, to make a number of 'ends' that would slot into these holes

These ends would have a ']' type shape on 3 sides, and the ability to hang a small gate on the fourth side... hard to explain see attached pic...

The idea would be that there would be holes in the ground at 13ft, then 2ft, then 13ft, 2ft, etc...
These ends would go into the holes
Into the ] on one side would go 13ft long 2x5 planks
4 13ft planks would be the feed face
- Start with one plank on the bottom, and then a space for the ewes head, and then other two planks up higher
- The planks would be held i plae with bolts at each end
- The holes in the ] would allow the planks to be moved up or down - if the straw got higher
- The holes would also allow the pen setup top be changed if it was going to be used to just hold ewes and lambs (or if you wanted to lose the feed face)
Into the other U, at 90deg would go more planks, to make an L shape, to bring the pen back to the wall
- You could set this as a feed face, or just a pen
The other side of the end or upright, would be to hang a small 2ft gate, alowing access in and out of the pen
- Or, it would be left open, if the empty 2 ft was to be used as walk through trough
Cut a wide swer pipe in half, to make the troughs for the feed face
Get the welder lad to make brackets to hang the trough off - these should hang off the planks
- This would be fine for feeding ration, but not sure how much support a trough would need if holding silage - might have to throw a concrete block of two under it every now and then...

In theory, you could make a 13 x 15 pen, or a 28 x 15 pen... (or maybe 13ft deep pens, to keep all the timber the same length)
you could build it to whatever size you wanted...
They should be easy enough to take up and easy to store when the shed is cleaned out...
You would imagine they should be cheap enough, as its mainly planks, the main expense would be the uprights and the small gates - but if you were half handy, you might be able to do these yourself...?

That's just my thinkings... am sure someone will come along and post a link to a much better system, but thats what come into my head there overnight...

It could be a bollox of a job too, with a lot of messing and setup and changing... hard to know

Tis easy to see I have little to be doing too today isnt it...

sheepfarmer92

Hi I have experience using a keenan for feeding sheep, its grand for big numbers (1200 ewes) indoors on pit silage but I don't think it would make life any easier for a flock of 200 to 300 ewes only complicate things instead, its not any quicker than feeding bales but you can save a fair bit on feed space once you keep it to them ad lib, we were giving them about 6 inches each feedspace, you need to keep a close eye on ewes and very important to separate thinner ewes and fatterewes, we find theres less prolapse with the ewes fed tmr and less twin lamb but it takes a lot of management to get them started on it. In short if your looking to save time more than anything else, a diet feeder is an expensive wheelbarrow!

ganmo

I've seen sheep been fed with a straw blower

Green farmer

I've a old open plan shed. No internal walls. Steel frame structure. Put in a concrete floor. Then use ordinary 5ft penning gates to pen them whatever way takes my fancy. after lambing is finished all dismantled and penning used outside. Can also make a contral feed passage whenever the mood takes me. Also have a few of these 5ft gates ( in pic ) that go well with feed passage option. At moment feeding silage in ring feeders. Just open pens and drop bale.

serfspup

Green farmer wrote: »

I've a old open plan shed. No internal walls. Steel frame structure. Put in a concrete floor. Then use ordinary 5ft penning gates to pen them whatever way takes my fancy. after lambing is finished all dismantled and penning used outside. Can also make a contral feed passage whenever the mood takes me. Also have a few of these 5ft gates ( in pic ) that go well with feed passage option. At moment feeding silage in ring feeders. Just open pens and drop bale.

do you ever have a problem with mould on bales?

the_blue_oval

rangler1 wrote: »

Haven't fed silage/hay to sheep for ten years,
If they're bedded every day, a pound of 15%p ration/day is enough to replace the silage.....a bit more expensive but a lot less work.
Takes less than two hours/day here to feed and bed 500 ewes

How many bales would you use between feeding and bedding?

Do you just keep a good fresh bed under them and let them eat the bedding or do you put the straw in front of feed barrier and use whatever they don't eat as bedding then?

Green farmer

serfspup wrote: »

do you ever have a problem with mould on bales?

Very little , spend the bit extra on double wrap, also drop it on a pallet, to keep it up off ground

rangler1

the_blue_oval wrote: »

How many bales would you use between feeding and bedding?

Do you just keep a good fresh bed under them and let them eat the bedding or do you put the straw in front of feed barrier and use whatever they don't eat as bedding then?

We just bed them, they get clever and eat as much as they can when it's thrown in before it gets dirty, i give one round 4 by 4 bale straw to 200 ewes per day

Green farmer

rangler1 wrote: »

We just bed them, they get clever and eat as much as they can when it's thrown in before it gets dirty, i give one round 4 by 4 bale straw to 200 ewes per day

Slightly off topic, but just in from lambing sheds here. They started 10th March and I've been in the sheds since. Hopefully going to close it down at the weekend, I'm wrecked. how do you manage to do it every year rangler ? Lambing them two or three seperate groups over a prolonged period. ? Next year I'm going to leave ram in for 3 weeks only .

roosky

Green farmer wrote: »

Next year I'm going to leave ram in for 3 weeks only .

I think we have all thought this in early April but in October or November your mind says " a late lamb is better than no lamb"

rangler1

Green farmer wrote: »

Slightly off topic, but just in from lambing sheds here. They started 10th March and I've been in the sheds since. Hopefully going to close it down at the weekend, I'm wrecked. how do you manage to do it every year rangler ? Lambing them two or three seperate groups over a prolonged period. ? Next year I'm going to leave ram in for 3 weeks only .

,

You'd be shattered alright, it's important to get enough sleep , OH is a big help, we do shifts here at night, so when I'm off, I can really switch off.
We couldn't manage them if they were lambing together, often saw all the individual pens full this year with nly a third of the ewes lambing at a time.
So prolonged though it is ,it;s the only way it's practical..
It's probably harder for you if you have to be working all the time......I know here that three hours is as long as you can leave them at a time....some job on your own

ganmo

roosky wrote: »

I think we have all thought this in early April but in October or November your mind says " a late lamb is better than no lamb"

We've often had June lambs and they're a right pain. This year we took out the Rams so by my reckoning our last lambs will be late May at the latest

sea12

. ? Next year I'm going to leave ram in for 3 weeks only .[/quote]

i left them in for 5 weeks this year and had more empties than expected. Make sure you have enough ram power if you are going for the 3 weeks.

Still a few left here. You'd be tired as your doing the day job as well and it catches up. Hoping they will finish this weekend and I can go for a few pints.

Green farmer

[quote="sea12;99373499
Still a few left here. You'd be tired as your doing the day job as well and it catches up. Hoping they will finish this weekend and I can go for a few pints.[/quote]


The other thing that's dawning on me as I sit in a cold shed watching them, is the ones that take longer then 3 weeks to go in lamb are Likely to be less fertile ones and are more likely giving singles . If cull prices are high, €100 for a few extra empties seems very tempting next January.

Username John

Green farmer wrote: »

The other thing that's dawning on me as I sit in a cold shed watching them, is the ones that take longer then 3 weeks to go in lamb are Likely to be less fertile ones and are more likely giving singles . If cull prices are high, €100 for a few extra empties seems very tempting next January.

Last year - I left the ram in 3 weeks, this year for 4. But this year all lambed in 15 days - which was great. (Last year they went the full 3 weeks to lamb)
Planning to go back to 3 weeks next year - easy today now though

I use a teaser for 2 weeks beforehand as well... Scan at Christmas, any ewes not in young sold fat in Feb.
EDIT: Think I got 120 for the one ewe I sent off this year...

This year no ewe lambs went in young, so kept the majority of them. I'll try ewe lambs with the ram again this year - but at the same time, I like leaving lambs go to hog before putting em with the ram...

It's hard to know which is better...
I can over winter ewe lambs cheap enough on stubble, but it's the spring grass they'd eat with the ewes that would be the most expensive cost for me... Having all ewes, (rather than ewes and ewe lambs) would suit me better, just from an ease of management perspective.
But it's hard to know, as you do have to carry em for the first year then...

I suspect it will be a mix of both - put the ewe lambs with the ram, but keep the ones that don't go in young, rather than sell fat. See how that works out for me...

AntrimGlens

Righto looking to pick all your brains here and all viewpoints welcome. I'm going building myself a sheep house as recent developments basically mean that i'm getting outa the ewes and going back to rearing hoggets and drystock. Had a fairly bad run at lambing because ewes were neglected in the run up to lambing with me being away with work and other commitments, resulting in too many ewes housed for the housing i had.

Now i know you'll all say don't be going to the expense of building a house to run drystock and i know that point only too well, I'm still fighting with myself over that point, but i've a man pricing a house for me at the minute based on the one attached. At the minute all i intend to get him to price up is the steelwork and provide the roof and side cladding. I can do most of the fitting out, blockwork, plastering myself and the brother to keep costs down.

so I'm looking at 90ft long and 50ft wide. 10ft passage in the middle, with a strip of concrete along one side for handling, foot bathing etc. So that would make 40 left for dividing into pens or feeding space for meal on both sides of the pens. The plan would be to leave at least 5 ft concrete strip to the rear wall just for ease of moving sheep around the house or for storing meal or straw etc.

I plan to run around 150-180 ewe lambs bought in aug/sept and sell again in August. They would be clipped when bought and run over the fields until october, then moved to the hill until Christmas and then housed until March, simply for ease of management for the Shepherd (me) and to do them right. There is still a margin in running them for a year and i still plan to keep sheep for another twenty years or so, therefore i might aswell bite the bullet now and have a house for the next twenty years. Now this house will be near the dwelling house and not in among other farm buildings so a greenfield site so to speak.

I have other handling facilities which are still going to still be the ones used from May to December, the sheep would only be in the fields near the shed for the month of April to eat down silage ground, so no real need for full purpose built race etc, just enough to handle them and footbath them, and for a days shearing.

So my questions are:
Should i make the concrete strip 8 or 10 ft along the length of one wall?
Should i go with 10ft wide concrete strip, 15ft wide pen, 10 ft passage, 15ft pen, Or 8ft wide strip, 12ft pen, 10ft passage, 15ft wide pen, 5ft concrete strip?

At the minute i don't intend putting in galvanised feed rails or anything like the picture, probably insert a few sleeves into the ground and put in some wooden posts with some d-rail for feed barriers or something like that. Probably not use walk through troughs either, just split pens using existing hurdles if i need to split them on condition score etc.
Bedded on straw and fed round bales from the passage, but hopefully purchase a straw /silage chopper at some point in the future.
Ideally i'm wanting to construct something fairly flexible as i may be able to rear turkeys in it for the other 8/9 months of the year on contract but also if i decide or the children wish to go back into keeping ewes then it's still suitable for that purpose. This is solely a building that is to be designed to make time spent with sheep easier to handle and check day or night, as i may not be out to feed them until 9 at night or 6 in the morning. I've looked at the tunnels and i don't think it would give me the flexibility for other uses, or animals.

All input appreciated and apologies for the long post.

rangler1

AntrimGlens wrote: »

Righto looking to pick all your brains here and all viewpoints welcome. I'm going building myself a sheep house as recent developments basically mean that i'm getting outa the ewes and going back to rearing hoggets and drystock. Had a fairly bad run at lambing because ewes were neglected in the run up to lambing with me being away with work and other commitments, resulting in too many ewes housed for the housing i had.

Now i know you'll all say don't be going to the expense of building a house to run drystock and i know that point only too well, I'm still fighting with myself over that point, but i've a man pricing a house for me at the minute based on the one attached. At the minute all i intend to get him to price up is the steelwork and provide the roof and side cladding. I can do most of the fitting out, blockwork, plastering myself and the brother to keep costs down.

so I'm looking at 90ft long and 50ft wide. 10ft passage in the middle, with a strip of concrete along one side for handling, foot bathing etc. So that would make 40 left for dividing into pens or feeding space for meal on both sides of the pens. The plan would be to leave at least 5 ft concrete strip to the rear wall just for ease of moving sheep around the house or for storing meal or straw etc.

I plan to run around 150-180 ewe lambs bought in aug/sept and sell again in August. They would be clipped when bought and run over the fields until october, then moved to the hill until Christmas and then housed until March, simply for ease of management for the Shepherd (me) and to do them right. There is still a margin in running them for a year and i still plan to keep sheep for another twenty years or so, therefore i might aswell bite the bullet now and have a house for the next twenty years. Now this house will be near the dwelling house and not in among other farm buildings so a greenfield site so to speak.

I have other handling facilities which are still going to still be the ones used from May to December, the sheep would only be in the fields near the shed for the month of April to eat down silage ground, so no real need for full purpose built race etc, just enough to handle them and footbath them, and for a days shearing.

So my questions are:
Should i make the concrete strip 8 or 10 ft along the length of one wall?
Should i go with 10ft wide concrete strip, 15ft wide pen, 10 ft passage, 15ft pen, Or 8ft wide strip, 12ft pen, 10ft passage, 15ft wide pen, 5ft concrete strip?

At the minute i don't intend putting in galvanised feed rails or anything like the picture, probably insert a few sleeves into the ground and put in some wooden posts with some d-rail for feed barriers or something like that. Probably not use walk through troughs either, just split pens using existing hurdles if i need to split them on condition score etc.
Bedded on straw and fed round bales from the passage, but hopefully purchase a straw /silage chopper at some point in the future.
Ideally i'm wanting to construct something fairly flexible as i may be able to rear turkeys in it for the other 8/9 months of the year on contract but also if i decide or the children wish to go back into keeping ewes then it's still suitable for that purpose. This is solely a building that is to be designed to make time spent with sheep easier to handle and check day or night, as i may not be out to feed them until 9 at night or 6 in the morning. I've looked at the tunnels and i don't think it would give me the flexibility for other uses, or animals.

All input appreciated and apologies for the long post.

Feeding passage will only feed approx 60 on each side if you feeding meal, so you'll need feed barriers on the 5ft strip at the back as well. It's a bit hectic on your own feeding each side, walk through troughs are easier in that case

Green farmer

Ive an old shed, similiar steel framed in size to what your talking about. Doing it up over a number of years. I've opted to concrete the whole floor. Doing a bay every year or two.( fair clean and comfort for walking on) Using ordinary sheep penning gates for group pens with the sheeted ones for central feed passage. Driving machinery up middle is no issue but along side walls are alot more difficult unless ends left open and enough height clearance.

serfspup

this layout feeds 240 adult ewes .pens totally adjustable for variable numbers/type/feeding regime.
walk through troughs 16ft free standing units therefore shed can be cleared and adapted for alternative uses.

AntrimGlens

Serfspup is there no central passage? Do you feed silage in the walk through troughs? Wheelbarrow it into them?

serfspup

yes it is far easier than trying to fork it into 2ft trough from a central passage which is a waste of space and money.

very easy shed to work & easy on sheep

see pictures in photo thread

Jack180570

drive it wrote: »

"Our current system is that we house the ewes around xmas and then let them to grass a few days before they lamb.
As they lamb we bring in the ewe and lamb(s) into the lambing shed for a day or two and then let them back out to different paddocks"

How do you find letting them out before they lamb do you have any problems with the change of diet just before they lamb as if all goes well I'll have a shed up this year and was going to try the same

Sorry for delay replying...
No problems with the change of diet and the other upside is that we stop feeding meals when they are left out to grass.. there is a bit of work in our system but we find it good...
Was reading since about the Teagasc hill farm in Leenane and they lamb using more or less the same system

Jack180570

Username John wrote: »

Why would you have ewes in, then let them out for lambing, and then bring them in again?
It seems like a lot of extra work, at a busy time of year. And also added risk where you cant keep as good an eye on them if there was any issues during lambing?

Lambing out I can understand - if they were out all the time, as it reduces the need for sheds. But if you're having to house them beforehand anyways, then you have the additional cost of sheds anyways... and bringing them in afterwards means you have the overhead of pens and using shed space.

So - what are the benefits of doing this?

Thanks John... you are exercising my brain on this ! :-)

We house the ewes pre lambing because we would not be able to feed them all outside without destroying the fields.

We then lamb them outside because we don't have the space inside and we get to stop feeding meals and silage

We bring them back in after lambing outside so:
1. we can make sure the lamb takes to the ewe
2. we check the ewe for defects and mark to cull if required
3. we EID tag, weigh, taildock and mark the lamb(s)
4. we get to group the ewe and lamb(s) into different bunches and this for instance makes it easier when we begin to move the sheep to the hill as the first group are the ewes with single ewe lambs so no drafting required at that stage

Thats the explanation... not sure if its the best use of time/resources etc... only consolation is that the Teagasc farm in Leenane is managed on a similar system... difference with them is that the green ground and hill is in the one place... mine are 60 miles apart so not as easy moving the sheep

Jack180570

Username John wrote: »

I don't know much about diet feeders, or times to feed silage - but I would have thought that feeding silage in feeders as you do, and using the central passage for lambing pens would be the best use of space?
But
- Losing the central passage - would this cause issues for you for bedding ewes (getting in with a round bale of straw) I would have thought not, as however you get in with silage, you could get in with straw. But just thinking out loud moreso...
- I don't know how this stacks up for time to do the daily jobs when lambing?


Why do you have so many groups? Why keep the Ram lambs and Ewe lambs seperate, etc?

Thanks again John and again apologies for the delay replying...
I think the diet feeder is a step too far at the moment. Also I think I will stick with lambing them out again next year as I dont want to make too many changes because at least I know the current system works.

For feeding them silage in I am thinking of a building silage feeders like the square ones that would be at the front of the pens by the feeding passage that I could drop in the round bales from the feeding passage without making the passage massively wide and loosing too much space... need to do a bit of testing with the teleporter to see what works.

Thinking about the amount of groups of ewes and lambs I have... yes I think I have too many... thinking about it all I need are 3....
1. Ewes with single ewe lambs (0-21 days old)
2. Rest of the ewes and lambs (0-21 days old)
3. Late lambing group (all ewes and lambs that lambe after 21 days)

The logic of keeping the ewes with the single ewe lambs separate is that they will be going to the hill 6 wks before the rest of them

The logic of having a late lambing group is that I can vaccinate and manage this main group better and easier as the spread in age is not too much

Jack180570

Username John wrote: »

I was thinking about this, and this is what I'd do - fairly similar to Jacks plan really...

Concrete foor, put in pipes in floor to make 15 x 15 pens - but put in holes every 13ft, then 2ft, then 13ft, then 2ft...
Get some welder lad, to make a number of 'ends' that would slot into these holes

These ends would have a ']' type shape on 3 sides, and the ability to hang a small gate on the fourth side... hard to explain see attached pic...

The idea would be that there would be holes in the ground at 13ft, then 2ft, then 13ft, 2ft, etc...
These ends would go into the holes
Into the ] on one side would go 13ft long 2x5 planks
4 13ft planks would be the feed face
- Start with one plank on the bottom, and then a space for the ewes head, and then other two planks up higher
- The planks would be held i plae with bolts at each end
- The holes in the ] would allow the planks to be moved up or down - if the straw got higher
- The holes would also allow the pen setup top be changed if it was going to be used to just hold ewes and lambs (or if you wanted to lose the feed face)
Into the other U, at 90deg would go more planks, to make an L shape, to bring the pen back to the wall
- You could set this as a feed face, or just a pen
The other side of the end or upright, would be to hang a small 2ft gate, alowing access in and out of the pen
- Or, it would be left open, if the empty 2 ft was to be used as walk through trough
Cut a wide swer pipe in half, to make the troughs for the feed face
Get the welder lad to make brackets to hang the trough off - these should hang off the planks
- This would be fine for feeding ration, but not sure how much support a trough would need if holding silage - might have to throw a concrete block of two under it every now and then...

In theory, you could make a 13 x 15 pen, or a 28 x 15 pen... (or maybe 13ft deep pens, to keep all the timber the same length)
you could build it to whatever size you wanted...
They should be easy enough to take up and easy to store when the shed is cleaned out...
You would imagine they should be cheap enough, as its mainly planks, the main expense would be the uprights and the small gates - but if you were half handy, you might be able to do these yourself...?

That's just my thinkings... am sure someone will come along and post a link to a much better system, but thats what come into my head there overnight...

It could be a bollox of a job too, with a lot of messing and setup and changing... hard to know

Tis easy to see I have little to be doing too today isnt it...

Thanks John... going to have to spend a bit of time trying to figure out this one... Planning came through earlier this week and waiting on final detailed drawings of the shed to start the pricing...
Talking to one shed erector today and he suggested that it might be best to buy the kit shed as the new regs on the welding is making it expensive for supply and erect jobs... dont know..
Also I am pretty sure that I will have two different lads doing the conc work and erecting the shed... will concentrate on the shed part now and when Im closer to building will focus more on the internal layout

Jack180570

sheepfarmer92 wrote: »

Hi I have experience using a keenan for feeding sheep, its grand for big numbers (1200 ewes) indoors on pit silage but I don't think it would make life any easier for a flock of 200 to 300 ewes only complicate things instead, its not any quicker than feeding bales but you can save a fair bit on feed space once you keep it to them ad lib, we were giving them about 6 inches each feedspace, you need to keep a close eye on ewes and very important to separate thinner ewes and fatterewes, we find theres less prolapse with the ewes fed tmr and less twin lamb but it takes a lot of management to get them started on it. In short if your looking to save time more than anything else, a diet feeder is an expensive wheelbarrow!

Thanks sheepfarmer.... going to take your advice on this one :-)