Luas thread (NOTE: You must read warning in post #1 - updated April 13)

cdebru wrote:

Dublin bus took over a year to find 100 drivers, and they have the full resources of a company that hasn't just sacked all its employees. It is a fantasy that you could hire 172 drivers in even a month, if they need Garda clearance, DB and BE drivers do not sure about Luas drivers add on at least another month.

Transdev don't have to sack anyone. If its got to the stage where Transdev won't offer anything better and the drivers won't back down its basically a case of who has the deepest pockets. My guess would be Transdev. There's limit to how many strike days each luas driver can afford.

I don't see anything wrong in the letter from whats been reported. Transdev seem to outlined their position and indicated the consequences. Whether the Luas drivers take heed remains to be seen

Nobody is fantasising about hiring drivers. I'd say its far from a fantasy but a detailed, costed, scored, risk-analysed , only-option-left-or-fold-up-tent, planned-to-the-nth degree option out of a few that are going to the board of Transdev.

The union seem willing to do the brinksmanship. Do you not think Transdev will have prepared for this, given the repeated rejection of reasonable offers ? Shame on you if you do not think all parties must work to a solution .

In that light I'd ask those advocating for the union position to say what compromises they might make to get this over the line ( hypothetically, of course ).

Grandeeod wrote: »

I've seen that scenario and its why the CIE brand is seen as absolute dirt by the public. I'm shocked that you even advocated such a scenario in these modern times. My own father was a shop steward with the original ITGWU. (the pre SIPTU union) CIE issues in the 70s/80s took priority over all others, while the likes of my father was left to rot in a small company on a crappy wage. Damn all support because he couldn't cause widespread chaos to the public/state.

I sat in an army truck while the great lads in CIE went on strike and drove passed my fathers pitiful picket that eventually amounted to nothing for him or the other workers. He worked for a small private firm. This current dispute makes him wretch.

Id feel for your father there on that its a really louay situation to have been stuck in. I certainly wouldnt pass a picket myself and stay away and its a pity your dad was left in such a weak position in his own dispute. Its also something that sucks as well for those people who definately deserve a better and fairer pay but are left in a completely handicapped and weak position to do something about it. I dont know why the cie lads you talk about would pass it tho what kind of company was it?

I dont advocate the scenario as such its not something that anyone would want to do but its the worst case scenario if strike breaking tactics or dirty tactics were to be used. Different if transdev walk away because it would mean the problem being passed to the government who helped create the situation. Its also something that I could only see as happening as the perfect $hitstorm scenario where it all kicks off because of someones arrogance or stupidity.

Gatling wrote: »

Transdev has around 87,000 staff on its books I get the feelings training and hiring staff might not be so difficult.

Simple case of redeployment current staff on their books that could fill the gaps if and when P45s get issued

okay. from where, and how would they re-deploy those staff, without potentially cutting services elsewhere? i doubt any cuts to tram services to help out dublin will be tolerated by the respective areas where transdev operate tram services.

tayto lover wrote: »

Some people don't seem able to see further than their noses on this.
It could well turn into a national transport strike if any rash decisions are made.
And nobody wants or needs that. This requires level headed discussion.

If they get what they want then we guarantee not just a national transport strike but an every monopoly strike - ESB, Air Traffic. Because you've just set the new normal as being a 20-40% pay rise in a 0 inflation if not minus inflation environment. So no. What we need is to set a line in the sand. If CIE employees want to sympathy strike so be it. We cannot have one part of society hold the rest to ransom.

Language. = phrasebook with top 10 phrases.
Existing contracts = existing drivers in breach of their contract by refusing work.
Geographical knowledge = seriously?? Two lines??
Different traffic laws. = seriously?? Tram signals are not the same as roads anyway - look at them.
Transit regulations = Like?
Travel costs = O'Learly will give free Ryanair flights for this
Rent = hotels for three months rather then forever costs
And probably lots of other stuff I haven't thought of = all of which are easily surmountable.

If they get what they want then we guarantee not just a national transport strike but an every monopoly strike - ESB, Air Traffic. Because you've just set the new normal as being a 20-40% pay rise in a 0 inflation if not minus inflation environment. So no. What we need is to set a line in the sand. If CIE employees want to sympathy strike so be it. We cannot have one part of society hold the rest to ransom.

This argument does not wash with union types; it is in fact seen as a positive rather than a negative. Do not attempt to waste your time in debating the actual reality because the ostriches bums are firmly in the air, the heads well stuck in the sand. L'Oreal "Because I'm worth it" in full swing.

Strike breaking and passing pickets is not illegal. Many would view it as Transdevs duty to keep the service running.

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Ones that have had their heads filled with Siptu nonsense?

I don't think Siptu were in charge of the selection process when the current drivers were hired. It stands to reason that 99% of the general population would behave in exactly the same way if they were in the same situation.