Ireland- 4th most nanny state in EU

Muahahaha · 31-03-2016 01:11PM #1

Many living in Ireland feel we live in a nanny state. Now we have the research to back it up- Ireland ranks as 4th most restrictive when it comes to alcohol, cigarettes and food.

The country has the second most stringent rules on tobacco and is in third place when it comes to drink according to the survey of 28 European Union countries. Only Britain was deemed to have more strict laws on tobacco, while Finland and Sweden topped the league table on tough alcohol rules.
The Nanny State index was compiled by six European think-tanks and was spearheaded by the Institute of Economic Affairs (IEA), a UK-based organisation which is reported to have previously accepted funding from a tobacco company.
The survey resulted in "a league table of the worst places in the European Union to eat, drink, smoke and vape".

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/ireland-ranks-high-as-a-nanny-state-on-alcohol-34586510.html

While I see Sweden & Finland being nanny states because of genuine concern for their citizens I don't feel the same way about here. Our nanny statism arises directly because of successive governments using alcohol and cigaretttes as an easy revenue generator whilst other measures brought in (such as 10pm off licence closing) are nothing to do with public health but instead are just pandering to the vested interests of publicans.

Harry Palmr · 31-03-2016 01:17PM

Smoking levels have declined markedly in my lifetime, not as if that's a bad thing.

MacauDragon · 31-03-2016 01:19PM

Muahahaha wrote: »

Many living in Ireland feel we live in a nanny state. Now we have the research to back it up- Ireland ranks as 4th most restrictive when it comes to alcohol, cigarettes and food.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/ireland-ranks-high-as-a-nanny-state-on-alcohol-34586510.html

While I see Sweden & Finland being nanny states because of genuine concern for their citizens I don't feel the same way about here. Our nanny statism arises directly because of successive governments using alcohol and cigaretttes as an easy revenue generator whilst other measures brought in (such as 10pm off licence closing) are nothing to do with public health but instead are just pandering to the vested interests of publicans.

Good. Smokers and drinkers will be using the public health system to care for their smoking and drinking related illnesses. Let them pay up front.

El_Duderino 09 · 31-03-2016 01:21PM

Muahahaha wrote:

While I see Sweden & Finland being nanny states because of genuine concern for their citizens I don't feel the same way about here. Our nanny statism arises directly because of successive governments using alcohol and cigaretttes as an easy revenue generator whilst other measures brought in (such as 10pm off licence closing) are nothing to do with public health but instead are just pandering to the vested interests of publicans.

The government needs to maintain the revenue they have now. So imagine they weren't getting as much revenue from alcohol and cigarettes, where would you suggest they should raise the revenue instead?

People don't like change and they hate new taxes. It would be very difficult to get people to go along with raising revenue from other sources.

Also, why are food, cigarettes and alcohol the defining factors in measuring the nanny state?

dav3 · 31-03-2016 01:29PM

It depends on what people's definition of a "nanny state" is. Having a genuine concern for the health of the nation, putting certain laws and taxes in place now so we're not paying higher taxes in the future to sort out the mess, should be seen as a good thing in my opinion.

The Nanny State index was compiled by six European think-tanks and was spearheaded by the Institute of Economic Affairs (IEA), a UK-based organisation which is reported to have previously accepted funding from a tobacco company.

I'm sure there were other 'concerned' industries funding this report and index.

kupus · 31-03-2016 01:35PM

Nanny state. yup. it sure is. Anybody try to set up a business lately. you spend more time jumping thru all the hoops that gov magic up than concentrating on your business idea.
Health and safety is another buzz word for limiting your good selves from doing anything meaningful. unless you have bucket loads of cash behind your business idea.
you need a cert to work on your own house now.. you need a cert to drive a forklift. you need a cert to tow a car trailer. you need a cert for fire extingushers for your premises. you need this, you need that, you need blah blah blah.

......and they say ireland is the best lil country in the world to do business. I dare anyone of you say that to the smb sector business owner and see what the reply is.

PARlance · 31-03-2016 01:49PM

kupus wrote: »

Nanny state. yup. it sure is. Anybody try to set up a business lately. you spend more time jumping thru all the hoops that gov magic up than concentrating on your business idea.
Health and safety is another buzz word for limiting your good selves from doing anything meaningful. unless you have bucket loads of cash behind your business idea.
you need a cert to work on your own house now.. you need a cert to drive a forklift. you need a cert to tow a car trailer. you need a cert for fire extingushers for your premises. you need this, you need that, you need blah blah blah.

......and they say ireland is the best lil country in the world to do business. I dare anyone of you say that to the smb sector business owner and see what the reply is.

2 friends set up 2 separate businesses in the last 3 years. Both doing very well. Both were assisted greatly via some kind of start your own business scheme when they had lost their jobs. Neither had any red tape complaints.
Ireland is a great place to do business. Enterprise Ireland et al provide real support for those who have viable plans and the right attitude.

PARlance · 31-03-2016 01:55PM

dav3 wrote: »

It depends on what people's definition of a "nanny state" is. Having a genuine concern for the health of the nation, putting certain laws and taxes in place now so we're not paying higher taxes in the future to sort out the mess, should be seen as a good thing in my opinion.

Can't see the "Nanny State" in this study. NS to me is the State interfering unduly. The state has plenty of reason to act within each of these categories.

Minderbinder · 31-03-2016 01:56PM

PARlance wrote: »

2 friends set up 2 separate businesses in the last 3 years. Both doing very well. Both were assisted greatly via some kind of start your own business scheme when they had lost their jobs. Neither had any red tape complaints.
Ireland is a great place to do business. Enterprise Ireland et al provide real support for those who have viable plans and the right attitude.

It's a great place to set up a European Head Office. That's about it.

31-03-2016 01:59PM

Very surprised the UK is more "stringent" when it comes to tobacco, what have they done that we haven't? Allowing for currency fluctuations fags cost the same, they insisted on keeping tobacco advertising longer than anyone else, they still have 10-boxes.

PARlance · 31-03-2016 02:00PM

Minderbinder wrote: »

It's a great place to set up a European Head Office. That's about it.

European Head Office of whingers & begrudgers. If you can't set up a business in Ireland, you probably shouldn't be setting up a business.

K-9 · 31-03-2016 02:00PM

I smoke and drink, vaped in the past, don't feel oppressed by the Nanny state at all!

osarusan · 31-03-2016 02:02PM

As a think tank, it kind of nails your colours to the mast to actually use the term 'Nanny State'.

thattequilagirl · 31-03-2016 02:06PM

Minderbinder wrote: »

It's a great place to set up a European Head Office. That's about it.

Several friends of mine have set up local businesses in the past few years. One in particular is thriving.

El_Duderino 09 · 31-03-2016 02:19PM

Deleted User wrote:

Very surprised the UK is more "stringent" when it comes to tobacco, what have they done that we haven't? Allowing for currency fluctuations fags cost the same, they insisted on keeping tobacco advertising longer than anyone else, they still have 10-boxes.

They're bringing in plane packaging. All packs will be olive green with just the name of the brand and a health warning. Looks like a Big Tobacco publication to me.

zoobizoo · 31-03-2016 02:28PM

I have no problem with the state imposing stringent measures on tobacco.

Nothing worse than standing close to or behind a smoker when out for a walk... nothing to do with health, all to do with the smell.

The tobacco ban was very forward thinking at the time. Just think back to when you'd be sitting in a restaurant and the table next to you would spark up...

As for starting up a business, I started up three without any hassle.

Wibbs · 31-03-2016 02:52PM

osarusan wrote: »

As a think tank, it kind of nails your colours to the mast to actually use the term 'Nanny State'.

Yep more of the usual libertarian stuff fronting as "think tanks" funded over and under the table by vested interests. "Big" government is baaad, the Free market is god types. Just as daft as the Loony Left. If anything slightly worse if this was possible. At least the lefties consider wider community and seek to improve it, however naively. The only community that matters to the Libbers is their own, preferably gated one. If they ever started a party in Ireland it would be entitled Me Fein.

Though I would somewhat agree with Kupus when it comes to some of the rules and regs, especially for small businesses. Too many public sector types looking for a reason to be and piling on the paperwork. That said other EU countries can be worse for this. Germany for one, even Spain has its moments on this front.

31-03-2016 02:56PM

PARlance wrote: »

2 friends set up 2 separate businesses in the last 3 years. Both doing very well. Both were assisted greatly via some kind of start your own business scheme when they had lost their jobs. Neither had any red tape complaints.
Ireland is a great place to do business. Enterprise Ireland et al provide real support for those who have viable plans and the right attitude.

A friend of mine started his own business using that scheme through the social welfare.

However the downside is (and this is open to correction) - they help you out for.. the first two years (?), but if your business fails after this, then because you were technically self employed, you'd have a harder time to get social welfare.

Again -- open to correction.

Seems like a double edged sword, if so.

gramar · 31-03-2016 02:57PM

Don't get out of bed without wearing your hi-vis. In fact, you shouldn't have gotten into bed without it on.

Permabear · 31-03-2016 03:04PM

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HamsterFace · 31-03-2016 03:04PM

The people bitching and moaning about the nanny state tend to be the same people who cry loudest about their "entitlements"

31-03-2016 03:13PM

Deleted User wrote: »

A friend of mine started his own business using that scheme through the social welfare.

However the downside is (and this is open to correction) - they help you out for.. the first two years (?), but if your business fails after this, then because you were technically self employed, you'd have a harder time to get social welfare.

Again -- open to correction.

Seems like a double edged sword, if so.

Well not really, they're two separate issues.

El_Duderino 09 · 31-03-2016 03:15PM

Permabear wrote:

This post had been deleted.

It was proposed,then shelved then given the go ahead late last year. Australia piloted it in the last few years. The news from Australia is good in that they haven't prevented people from smoking but they have reduced the number of young people starting to smoking. Not good for tobacco producers but good for everybody else. As far as I know it is going ahead in the next few years. Plenty of time for tobacco lobby to change that though. The DUP were dead against it because they make tobacco products in one of their constituencies.

Brave move from the government to risk such a rich seem of tax revenue.

Permabear · 31-03-2016 03:16PM

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K-9 · 31-03-2016 03:21PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

It was proposed,then shelved then given the go ahead late last year. Australia piloted it in the last few years. The news from Australia is good in that they haven't prevented people from smoking but they have reduced the number of young people starting to smoking. Not good for tobacco producers but good for everybody else. As far as I know it is going ahead in the next few years. Plenty of time for tobacco lobby to change that though. The DUP were dead against it because they make tobacco products in one of their constituencies.

Brave move from the government to risk such a rich seem of tax revenue.

Indeed, it's aimed at teenagers not hardened smokers and appears to be going well. Big tobacco isn't happy of course, but that's a given.

Zillah · 31-03-2016 03:26PM

Maybe if we weren't so mindlessly destructive with ourselves we wouldn't need to be nannied so much? Smoking, drinking to excess, obesity - disincentive taxes don't have reason to exist if the population can behave like adults.

But, shure, go drink ten pints, get sick, eat two bags of chips with a bottle of coke, and try to convince everyone and yourself you had a great time, why not. Then complain about being fat.

dav3 · 31-03-2016 03:32PM

Our rating for 'Food' which is 2.3??? was because

The advertising of a wide range of food products is banned on children’s television

Bold Ireland, bold bold Ireland.

El_Duderino 09 · 31-03-2016 03:52PM

Permabear wrote:

This post had been deleted.

It appears to be a 'resesrch' piece with a narrow agenda, thinly veiled to gather support from people who feel oppressed fly the smoking laws. In fairness it worked as it got someone exorcised enough to start this thread. It's probably not going as the authors would have hoped though.

To give Big Government it's due, do others remember the fuss about how the smoking ban was totally unworkable, people wouldn't stand for it, making a farce of our freedoms etc .. You'd be hard pressed to find anyone who opposes it now. It was the right thing to do for society.

Permabear · 31-03-2016 04:03PM

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zoobizoo · 31-03-2016 04:04PM

Zillah wrote: »

But, shure, go drink ten pints, get sick, eat two bags of chips with a bottle of coke, and try to convince everyone and yourself you had a great time, why not. Then complain about being fat.

Or complain that you can't lose weight even though you do twenty mins walking a day

OldMrBrennan83 · 31-03-2016 04:05PM

This post has been deleted.

Ireland- 4th most nanny state in EU

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