Do Atheists have different funerals to religious people?

Mark Tapley · 31-03-2016 12:43AM

Asaiah wrote: »

Clearly you exist. I think my entire message has been lost on you. I believe that atheists are people whose hearts are closed to God, but that God exists, they are merely so closed that they cannot entertain the thought. Is it so hard to understand that a Christian could believe this?

You may not agree and that's fine, I totally respect your belief.

Your belief in this nonsense is hard for me to fathom . In the real world I avoid discussions of belief in Gods as the truth is I don't respect them . At the same time I have no wish to cause upset to friends and family. I allow myself to be frank on Internet fora as people have freely entered a discussion. I bear no ill will towards to you but think your beliefs are childish.

Asaiah · 31-03-2016 12:44AM

Zen65 wrote: »

Well, that's a much clearer explanation of what you meant than what you actually said, so I think that's cleared up.

Of course, atheists have a similar belief about christians. We believe that god does not exist, but that christians cannot see this because their minds are too closed to see beyond what their parents told them. It's no coincidence that ninety-something-percent of religious people have the same beliefs as their parents.

In the main, atheists do respect religious people, but we do not respect their beliefs because they demand that logical thought be suspended. I think all atheists would agree that we should all be free to believe whatever we want about the existence or non-existence of gods.

I agree with that sentiment. Although I feel you are expressing a naive opinion on Christians believing in God because of conditioning.

My father is a full on Atheist, my Mother is a non practising but spiritual person. no one ever pushed it on me. I was an atheist for years before finding my faith, I am an engineer who deals in logical operations for a living, and do so at a senior level in my career. I see no contradictions between a logical, ordered universe and God.

To keep on topic, I agree with many here , that a funeral is about the mourners, and whatever helps ease their pain. Be it secular or religious.

wokingvoter · 31-03-2016 12:47AM

Turtle_ wrote: »

I've had to plan an atheist funeral. We had a humanist MC who basically linked all the different parts, and was really good for ideas and suggestions about things to put in the funeral.

People read poetry and explained how it linked to the deceased, people from all aspects of their life talked about how they came to know each other and shared memories of times spent together, shared what they would miss now that they were gone. Music was played and we had lots of photos of the person down through the years on show. There was also an opportunity for anyone who wanted to to stand up and say a few words.

It was so personal. People shared in our collective grief and took comfort from the stories everyone told. We all got to know them a bit better.

I've been to a lot of religious funerals, too. Many have been very personal, but many have also been quite impersonal and focused on dogma and scripture. Some of it is also left at the mercy of the priest and how much tailoring he permits...

So yes, atheists have funerals and they can be great.

My ultra conservative rift wing Catholic mother at nearly 82 has planned her funeral with us and it will be strictly impersonal and dominated by dogma because that's what she wants.
She's not the only one either.
Amongst devout Catholics there's a swing away from personalised, modified, "cookie cutter " funerals, ( "one for everyone in the audience " prayers of the faithful, decks of cards and suchlike being presented at the Offetory Procession, long emotional eulogies by family members, from the alter) and a swing back to more traditional Irish Catholic funeral, which was probably a more holy sacred affair altogether

wokingvoter · 31-03-2016 12:50AM

pgj2015 wrote: »

I don't want to talk about my deceased friend anymore if you don't mind, you probably had to be there really but it was like the priest was shaming him for taking his life, there wasn't much compassion for what he went through before he died.

my family have their faith but they would want me to have whatever funeral I wanted, they wouldn't care if I have an atheist send off, and even if they did care, its not up to them.

I'm sorry your friend died and I won't upset you by asking any more about it.

Mark Tapley · 31-03-2016 12:52AM

ThatGeekGirl wrote: »

I like your wording on this, I guess I just thought it was a sad thought that nothing matters at all. My thoughts would be along that lines that even if you are a strict athiest (have no beliefs in anything at all, as opposed to simply being non-religious) you could find some reasoning or quality to your existence, even if simply another living being in the biosphere (is that the right term?) of life on our planet.

Interesting thoughts on this I don't know what I can catagorise myself as I fall somewhere between athiest, humanist and agnostic but I was brought up catholic until I was 18.

This is what I would think - that you can find some meaning somewhere even just of your own ideals

Atheists are individuals, there is no code of practice. Other heathens might disagree with me. We live in a troubled world but I find a lot to appreciate. Biosphere isn't a term I've used but yes to meet a fellow being and share and love can fell like a transcendent experience.

Lyaiera · 31-03-2016 12:57AM

wokingvoter wrote: »

A family in the town where I am are getting ready for their 5 year olds months mind
The idea that her dead child is safe and healthy and happy in heaven has kept the child's mother going over these last few weeks
The months mind will further reinforce that comforting feeling
She'll be surrounded again by the whole parish all there to support her

Do they worry that their five year old is suffering unimaginable pain in hell?

blackbird 49 · 31-03-2016 12:59AM

What I hate about funerals is the way the priest talks about the deceased as if he knew them ( yes some will personally but a lot not) I myself have made sure they know what I would like at my funeral and definely no church involved, when talking to people about this they look at me as if I have two heads, I often think people's thinking in this country is if your not "Catholic" your a nobody and this is from people who are usually two faced f**kets

wokingvoter · 31-03-2016 01:00AM

Lyaiera wrote: »

Do they worry that their five year old is suffering unimaginable pain in hell?

Why would they think that?

wokingvoter · 31-03-2016 01:05AM

blackbird 49 wrote: »

What I hate about funerals is the way the priest talks about the deceased as if he knew them ( yes some will personally but a lot not) I myself have made sure they know what I would like at my funeral and definely no church involved, when talking to people about this they look at me as if I have two heads, I often think people's thinking in this country is if your not "Catholic" your a nobody and this is from people who are usually two faced f**kets

If the priest didn't know the deceased, and even if he did, he'll have had a chat with the bereaved to get a general picture of the type of person they were, or more accurately, how the bereaved felt about he or she
The bereaved expect to hear the priest speak about the deceased
It might as well be something comforting to them
I'd have thought that was fairly obvious?

feargale · 31-03-2016 01:08AM

pgj2015 wrote: »

I was baptized catholic but do not believe in god, and never go to mass, if I get married it will not be in a church, If I have kids they won't be baptized. also I don't want a priest talking at my funeral so can you bypass the whole church funeral bit most people seem to go through?

My first experience of a humanist funeral was at Mount Jerome recently. As others have said, the talk was about the deceased. We were treated to some of the deceased's favourite music and literature. The congregation was mixed, I would say at a guess more believers than non-believers. The ceremony took place in the on-site Protestanr church. I don't know if it is still in use as a Protestant church or not. At the end the deceased was rolled away on a conveyor belt for cremation. It was impressive.
The local Church of Ireland rector where I live assures me he will make his church available for any kind of funeral, atheist, Bahai, Baptist etc.. I guess it's at his discretion. It doesn't follow that a colleague of his will be equally accomodating.
Incidentally I have also been at a CofI funeral service conducted in a Catholic church.

Lyaiera · 31-03-2016 01:11AM

wokingvoter wrote: »

Why would they think that?

If you can presuppose that your child got in heaven, then it's equally possible that they're suffering in hell. God is supposedly a being that we can't imagine. I wouldn't want to presume he does something one way or another.

Maybe the five year old worshiped Santa?

feargale · 31-03-2016 01:12AM

blackbird 49 wrote: »

What I hate about funerals is the way the priest talks about the deceased as if he knew them ( yes some will personally but a lot not) I myself have made sure they know what I would like at my funeral and definely no church involved, when talking to people about this they look at me as if I have two heads, I often think people's thinking in this country is if your not "Catholic" your a nobody and this is from people who are usually two faced f**kets

That's a very broad generalisation. There are bigoted Catholics and bigoted Protestanta and bigoted Atheists. I've fallen foul of all three. But there are decent reasonable people to be found everywhere too.

murpho999 · 31-03-2016 01:13AM

wokingvoter wrote: »

I'm sure you know that it's not obligatory for you to attend any religious ceremonies at all
It looks as if you haven't been to too many "months minds" if you don't mind me saying
A family in the town where I am are getting ready for their 5 year olds months mind
The idea that her dead child is safe and healthy and happy in heaven has kept the child's mother going over these last few weeks
The months mind will further reinforce that comforting feeling
She'll be surrounded again by the whole parish all there to support her
Wether you like it or not religious ceremonies surrounding death and bereavement are a comfort to millions of people all over the world every day.
You can pretend to yourself that it's , what did you say, social conditioning? And of course your entitled to your opinion about the subject
But faith in God is s very real thing for many millions

You are quite right that as an adult I do not attend church services. I only go to church for funerals and weddings out of respect for the concerned people.

Very sorry to hear about a child dying but I find it bizzare that they would get solace from a religious ceremony and think that God is keeping their dead child safe and healthy(?) instead of asking why their all powerful God allows children to die in the first place.

I don''t think it's really the religion that provides the support needed but the community itself and people around them and Athiests don't have to miss out on that.
I also stand by my viewpoint that the majority of people who use religion do so out of social and cultural norms rather than really consciously choosing to be so.
Catholic control of schools in Ireland is a major factor in this too.

ThatGeekGirl · 31-03-2016 01:16AM

wokingvoter wrote: »

If the priest didn't know the deceased, and even if he did, he'll have had a chat with the bereaved to get a general picture of the type of person they were, or more accurately, how the bereaved felt about he or she
The bereaved expect to hear the priest speak about the deceased
It might as well be something comforting to them
I'd have thought that was fairly obvious?

Generally speaking yes this should be the case but not always. I was at a funeral about 6 months ago where it was very clear that the priest had no idea who the deceased was and made very generalised statements which turned out to be a complete misinterpretation of who the person was. The family privately said this afterwards in conversation outside, that they felt they were at someone else's funeral but it was not like they could stand up in the middle of it and correct the priest. The point I am making is that in the majority of funerals, the priest will probably do a good job but don't expect that to always be the case.

feargale · 31-03-2016 01:18AM

murpho999 wrote: »

You are quite right that as an adult I do not attend church services. I only go to church for funerals and weddings out of respect for the concerned people.

Very sorry to hear about a child dying but I find it bizzare that they would get solace from a religious ceremony and think that God is keeping their dead child safe and healthy(?) instead of asking why their all powerful God allows children to die in the first place.

I don''t think it's really the religion that provides the support needed but the community itself and people around them and Athiests don't have to miss out on that.

That's grand, isn't it? Each to their own. But if others take consolation from something we don't believe in, why f--k around with it?

wokingvoter · 31-03-2016 01:18AM

Lyaiera wrote: »

If you can presuppose that your child got in heaven, then it's equally possible that they're suffering in hell. God is supposedly a being that we can't imagine. I wouldn't want to presume he does something one way or another.

Maybe the five year old worshiped Santa?

How miserably unhappy do you need to be to want to go and suggest to the heartbroken bereaved mother of a dead 5 year old that her precious child is roaring in hell?
And God is not "supposedly " a being that we can't imagine ? Where did you get that idea?

feargale · 31-03-2016 01:20AM

ThatGeekGirl wrote: »

Generally speaking yes this should be the case but not always. I was at a funeral about 6 months ago where it was very clear that the priest had no idea who the deceased was and made very generalised statements which turned out to be a complete misinterpretation of who the person was. The family privately said this afterwards in conversation outside, that they felt they were at someone else's funeral but it was not like they could stand up in the middle of it and correct the priest. The point I am making is that in the majority of funerals, the priest will probably do a good job but don't expect that to always be the case.

Quite. People mess up and make mistakes sometimes. Judge f--k up in court sometimes but nobody would offer that as a reason to abolish the justice system.

legocrazy505 · 31-03-2016 01:20AM

murpho999 wrote: »

You are quite right that as an adult I do not attend church services. I only go to church for funerals and weddings out of respect for the concerned people.

Very sorry to hear about a child dying but I find it bizzare that they would get solace from a religious ceremony and think that God is keeping their dead child safe and healthy(?) instead of asking why their all powerful God allows children to die in the first place.

I don''t think it's really the religion that provides the support needed but the community itself and people around them and Athiests don't have to miss out on that.

The answer I get anyway from a lot of people is that things like the death of a child are just "His plan". That just seems to be how the brain rationalises this for some people.
Definitely agree that the community is a great thing in the grief process. I was at my grandfather's funeral and had to do a reading for the mass but honestly the actual mass part I didn't feel connected to the whole thing. What really hits you is when the congregation queue to say their condolences at the end, I think that it's the human element of the funeral that really is the driving force behind it and it's definitely what helps the family heal.

murpho999 · 31-03-2016 01:25AM

feargale wrote: »

That's grand, isn't it? Each to their own. But if others take consolation from something we don't believe in, why f--k around with it?

I just think people should really think about it and really understand what it is that gives them the comfort rather than blindly following as is often the case.

ThatGeekGirl · 31-03-2016 01:26AM

feargale wrote: »

Quite. People mess up and make mistakes sometimes. Judge f--k up in court sometimes but nobody would offer that as a reason to abolish the justice system.

I wouldn't suggest abolishing a religious funeral based on some priests' actions - my comment was in response to the comment made that implied all priests act one and the same.

wokingvoter · 31-03-2016 01:28AM

murpho999 wrote: »

You are quite right that as an adult I do not attend church services. I only go to church for funerals and weddings out of respect for the concerned people.

Very sorry to hear about a child dying but I find it bizzare that they would get solace from a religious ceremony and think that God is keeping their dead child safe and healthy(?) instead of asking why their all powerful God allows children to die in the first place.

I don''t think it's really the religion that provides the support needed but the community itself and people around them and Athiests don't have to miss out on that.
I also stand by my viewpoint that the majority of people who use religion do so out of social and cultural norms rather than really consciously choosing to be so.
Catholic control of schools in Ireland is a major factor in this too.

You might find it bizarre, and your entitled to that, as I am entitled to find equally bizarre your head scratching over how bereaved people glean comfort from their faith.
In this case this huge extended family have great faith in God. Maybe not each individual family member, but they would be fairly observant Catholics.

feargale · 31-03-2016 01:30AM

Lyaiera wrote: »

If you can presuppose that your child got in heaven, then it's equally possible that they're suffering in hell. God is supposedly a being that we can't imagine. I wouldn't want to presume he does something one way or another.

Maybe the five year old worshiped Santa?

I would find it very disturbing that anyone might suggest to parents that their 5 year old child was burning in hell? Are you aware of that having happened? If I were a committed practising Catholic I think I would talk to someone about it, the bishop or maybe the police. I thought it was a cornerstone of Catholicism that anyone under a certain age couldn't go to hell even if they wanted to.

Yes we all worshipped Santa at an age. I read some on boards suggesting we should spill the beans to the kids about him. What do you think?

feargale · 31-03-2016 01:33AM

ThatGeekGirl wrote: »

I wouldn't suggest abolishing a religious funeral based on some priests' actions - my comment was in response to the comment made that implied all priests act one and the same.

Don't misunderstand me. I was in sympathy with your previous post.

wokingvoter · 31-03-2016 01:34AM

murpho999 wrote: »

I just think people should really think about it and really understand what it is that gives them the comfort rather than blindly following as is often the case.

Some greater minds then yours and mine, some very clever people, scientists and doctors and philosophers, have really thought about it and come to the conclusion that God is real. I wouldn't consider them to be "blindly following " would you?
Even if people are "blindly following " why do you want to take that comfort away from them?

9de5q7tsr8u2im · 31-03-2016 01:36AM

So many sadacts here talking about the prospect of having your funeral non religious, it's going to be a massive regret!

ThatGeekGirl · 31-03-2016 01:36AM

feargale wrote: »

...anyone under a certain age couldn't go to hell even if they wanted to...

eh sorry to burst your bubble but that is not true. The catholic church have had a long history of deciding who was worthy or not, including who could be buried where. I have extended family who only a generation back received nasty responses from the church with regards to still birth babies, telling them that their babies would never make it to heaven and had to be buried away from the family plot.

legocrazy505 · 31-03-2016 01:38AM

LuckyDude12 wrote: »

So many sadacts here talking about the prospect of having your funeral non religious, it's going to be a massive regret!

Ah yes a burden for the rest of my life after it...oh wait I'll be dead anyway.

feargale · 31-03-2016 01:39AM

ThatGeekGirl wrote: »

eh sorry to burst your bubble but that is not true. The catholic church have had a long history of deciding who was worthy or not, including who could be buried where. I have extended family who only a generation back received nasty responses from the church with regards to still birth babies, telling them that their babies would never make it to heaven and had to be buried away from the family plot.

True, Limbo and all that, but I never heard of a baby going to hell. Did they not close down Limbo?

Mark Tapley · 31-03-2016 01:41AM

LuckyDude12 wrote: »

So many sadacts here talking about the prospect of having your funeral non religious, it's going to be a massive regret!

Corpses having regrets how does that work?

wokingvoter · 31-03-2016 01:42AM

feargale wrote: »

I would find it very disturbing that anyone might suggest to parents that their 5 year old child was burning in hell? Are you aware of that having happened? If I were a committed practising Catholic I think I would talk to someone about it, the bishop or maybe the police. I thought it was a cornerstone of Catholicism that anyone under a certain age couldn't go to hell even if they wanted to.

Yes we all worshipped Santa at an age. I read some on boards suggesting we should spill the beans to the kids about him. What do you think?

Lyaeira feels so strongly opposed to bereaved parents gleaning comfort from faith that he or she would like it pointed out to them that their child might just as easily be in hell. Suffering.
Because they have no right to that comfort, probably, or something
It hasn't come back to explain so we don't know why.
I agree with you that it's so disturbing as to raise a red flag about the poster
Of course it's a cornerstone of Catholiscm that a small child has gone straight to Heaven

Do Atheists have different funerals to religious people?

Comments