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Guidance for Dentists on using Social Media

  • 29-03-2016 08:21PM
    #1
    Hillmanhunter1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 332 ✭✭


    I see that the General Dental Council in the UK has published thoughtful guidance for dentists on using social media:
    https://www.gdc-uk.org/Dentalprofessionals/Standards/Documents/Guidance%20on%20using%20social%20media%20(Sept%202013).pdf

    Isn't it time that the Irish Dental Council also considered this question?

    The Codes of Practice on their website seem wholly oblivious of the spread of social media over the past decade or so. This must leave many Irish dentists feeling unsure what the boundaries of acceptable and appropriate comment are, a burden they should not have to bear.

    I feel a letter coming on!


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Comments

  • #2
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    Hillmanhunter1 wrote: »
    I see that the General Dental Council in the UK has published thoughtful guidance for dentists on using social media:
    https://www.gdc-uk.org/Dentalprofessionals/Standards/Documents/Guidance%20on%20using%20social%20media%20(Sept%202013).pdf

    Isn't it time that the Irish Dental Council also considered this question?

    The Codes of Practice on their website seem wholly oblivious of the spread of social media over the past decade or so. This must leave many Irish dentists feeling unsure what the boundaries of acceptable and appropriate comment are, a burden they should not have to bear.

    I feel a letter coming on!

    No letter necessary.

    The article relates to patient confidentiality, not to discussing dental problems on social media. In other words, dentists cannot post details of their patients on social media. I suspect you don't understand the article and misinterpreted it to imply that dentists cannot discuss any treatments on social media.

    There are no degrees of patient confidentiality, it is enshrined in our code of conduct and applies in all forms of communication, not just social media/the Internet.


  • #3
    Oral Surgeon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,235 ✭✭✭Oral Surgeon


    Would you write a letter to the dental council about this??!!

    You must have nothing better to be doing!!

    Hillmanhunter1 wrote: »
    I see that the General Dental Council in the UK has published thoughtful guidance for dentists on using social media:
    https://www.gdc-uk.org/Dentalprofessionals/Standards/Documents/Guidance%20on%20using%20social%20media%20(Sept%202013).pdf

    Isn't it time that the Irish Dental Council also considered this question?

    The Codes of Practice on their website seem wholly oblivious of the spread of social media over the past decade or so. This must leave many Irish dentists feeling unsure what the boundaries of acceptable and appropriate comment are, a burden they should not have to bear.

    I feel a letter coming on!


  • #4
    Hillmanhunter1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 332 ✭✭Hillmanhunter1


    I think that there is something to be said for updating guidelines for professional conduct periodically to reflect the changing nature of society generally, and in this case, social media specifically.

    My parents rarely use social media, I do quite a bit, my children seem to do nothing else! Clearly it is the way of the future, and with more and more professionals giving professional opinions on social media, guidelines from their industry or regulatory bodies would seem appropriate.


  • #5
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    Hillmanhunter1 wrote: »
    I think that there is something to be said for updating guidelines for professional conduct periodically to reflect the changing nature of society generally, and in this case, social media specifically.

    My parents rarely use social media, I do quite a bit, my children seem to do nothing else! Clearly it is the way of the future, and with more and more professionals giving professional opinions on social media, guidelines from their industry or regulatory bodies would seem appropriate.

    Confidentiality is a simple concept, no matter what the medium. What the generations of your famaily do is a poor analogy to use as you are not bound by Dr/patient confidentiality.


  • #6
    Hillmanhunter1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 332 ✭✭Hillmanhunter1


    davo10 wrote: »
    Confidentiality is a simple concept, no matter what the medium. What the generations of your famaily do is a poor analogy to use as you are not bound by Dr/patient confidentiality.

    I am happy to take it as a given that none of the dentists who post on this forum would breach patient confidentiality.

    What I am suggesting might be useful is some guidelines on "the boundaries of acceptable and appropriate comment" where dentists post, as dentists, on public forums.


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  • #7
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    Hillmanhunter1 wrote: »
    I am happy to take it as a given that none of the dentists who post on this forum would breach patient confidentiality.

    What I am suggesting might be useful is some guidelines on "the boundaries of acceptable and appropriate comment" where dentists post, as dentists, on public forums.

    I suspect that what you are saying is "I don't like what you posted so I'm going to write a letter to the dental council" . Drive on. The dental council have an article on their website about choosing dentists abroad, I'm sure they would find your account of having to return for treatment at your expense, interesting to say the least.

    Nothing wrong with commenting on or rebutting your posts, you put them in the public domain inviting replies.


  • #8
    Oral Surgeon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,235 ✭✭✭Oral Surgeon


    So you want to censor the educated and experienced opinion of the people working in that profession but you as a happy patient (and I still can't understand why!!) are free to give all the bad advice you like!!
    Hillmanhunter1 wrote: »
    I think that there is something to be said for updating guidelines for professional conduct periodically to reflect the changing nature of society generally, and in this case, social media specifically.

    My parents rarely use social media, I do quite a bit, my children seem to do nothing else! Clearly it is the way of the future, and with more and more professionals giving professional opinions on social media, guidelines from their industry or regulatory bodies would seem appropriate.


  • #9
    Hillmanhunter1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 332 ✭✭Hillmanhunter1


    Oral Surgeon wrote: »
    So you want to censor the educated and experienced opinion of the people working in that profession but you as a happy patient (and I still can't understand why!!) are free to give all the bad advice you like!!

    If you think that if the Dental Council was to establish guidelines on the "boundaries of acceptable and appropriate comment" it would be tantamount to censoring your opinions, then it must follow that at least some of your opinions (and the posts that flow from those opinions) lie outside where you think those boundaries might be set.

    Railing about the fact that dentistry is regulated while consumers of dental services are not is just plain odd.

    Finally, I don't give dental advice. I am neither qualified not authorised to do so. I give information about the positive experiences that I have had, and if anyone contacts me privately I tell them who I went to, and I tell them to do their own research.


  • #10
    btkm8unsl0w5r4
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,251 ✭✭✭btkm8unsl0w5r4


    I dont understand your motivation. But the fact that if give me opportunity to link to your original threads here

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showt...p?t=2056526627

    that will give the outside observer context to whats going on here and the motivations, is good for everyone. I think the fact that the dentists are so happy to re-link, and back-link your thread is a real annoyance to you. I am also happy for anyone who views your experiences as positive to follow in your footsteps should they so desire.

    As for you link for social media, I think given the content of the above thread its your preferred dental providers that would best be served buy some ethics and honesty in their dealing with the public. BTW is an important differentiation between the public and patients. A dentists ethical obligation to the public is limited, but the obligations to patients are more strict. Also so long as you are truthful you will always be fine, its just that the truth doesn't suit everyone.


  • #11
    Big_G
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,589 ✭✭✭Big_G


    Personally I don't think any reply is necessary, but I will anyway. To suggest guidelines are necessary is also to suggest that dentists comments on social media are problematic or would have the potential to become problematic in the future. What you are asking for is guidelines about free speech and expression of opinion. If that existed, the internet wouldn't exist and neither would social media.

    Any guidelines issued would only be an extension of the already existing guidelines about professional conduct, which are sufficient.

    Furthermore, any of the dentists posting here would express the exact same opinions to their patients, one-to-one, and non-anonymously on a daily basis. Any guidelines seeking to limit the expression of these opinions on social media would prevent a dentist doing their jobs.


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  • #12
    Hillmanhunter1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 332 ✭✭Hillmanhunter1


    The world would be very dull place if we all agreed on everything!

    Personally I think that where dentists post on public forums about issues such as soccer, motor cars and relationships they are entitled to free speech, but where they post on a dental issues forum, wearing their dentists hat, then their contributions should be consistent with the professional conduct standards of their profession, and that does mean and should mean that they do not enjoy unqualified free speech in those circumstances.

    To be fair, I don't think any of the other posters have disagreed with this, but the question remains as to whether guidelines issued prior to the explosion in social media usage remain fit for purpose in todays world.


  • #13
    Oral Surgeon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,235 ✭✭✭Oral Surgeon


    Everyone is entitled to their opinion, my opinion is that yours makes no sense!!
    Hillmanhunter1 wrote: »
    The world would be very dull place if we all agreed on everything!

    Personally I think that where dentists post on public forums about issues such as soccer, motor cars and relationships they are entitled to free speech, but where they post on a dental issues forum, wearing their dentists hat, then their contributions should be consistent with the professional conduct standards of their profession, and that does mean and should mean that they do not enjoy unqualified free speech in those circumstances.

    To be fair, I don't think any of the other posters have disagreed with this, but the question remains as to whether guidelines issued prior to the explosion in social media usage remain fit for purpose in todays world.


  • #14
    Hillmanhunter1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 332 ✭✭Hillmanhunter1


    Oral Surgeon wrote: »
    Everyone is entitled to their opinion, my opinion is that yours makes no sense!!

    Were you by any chance absent the day they did Ethics101?


  • #15
    btkm8unsl0w5r4
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,251 ✭✭✭btkm8unsl0w5r4


    Hillmanhunter were you not giving out about the straw man argument and the ad hominid attack yesterday? This very thread is your attempt not to refute what the dentists are saying about your opinions but their very right to disagree with you and the manner in which they do it.

    We get this from time to time. One chap started copying and pasting bits from the dental act cause he didn't like when the unpaid dentists on the forum, talking in general to people who are not their patients said things that were true. I find it is only those without a code of ethics that use other peoples ethics as a weapon against them.

    Being ethical is standing up to the dung pushing and telling the person shoveling it to stop even if it means throwing a bit back. Its not allowing yourself to be burning in it and then wondering why the room smells. Social media is just a publishing forum, however the anonymity does allow for certain individuals to feel their opinion carried equal or more weight than that of others.

    I think that the restraint of the dentists on the forum is nothing short of astonishing, in the time since your current latest resurfacing the other dentists have helped a number of people with actual dental issues and made a number of good opinion posts.


  • #16
    Oral Surgeon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,235 ✭✭✭Oral Surgeon


    Hillmanhunter1 wrote: »
    Were you by any chance absent the day they did Ethics101?

    What's unethical about my post? You need to grow up HH.


  • #17
    Hillmanhunter1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 332 ✭✭Hillmanhunter1


    Freya Nutty Peanut wrote: »
    Hillmanhunter were you not giving out about the straw man argument and the ad hominid attack yesterday? This very thread is your attempt not to refute what the dentists are saying about your opinions but their very right to disagree with you and the manner in which they do it.

    We get this from time to time. One chap started copying and pasting bits from the dental act cause he didn't like when the unpaid dentists on the forum, talking in general to people who are not their patients said things that were true. I find it is only those without a code of ethics that use other peoples ethics as a weapon against them.

    Being ethical is standing up to the dung pushing and telling the person shoveling it to stop even if it means throwing a bit back. Its not allowing yourself to be burning in it and then wondering why the room smells. Social media is just a publishing forum, however the anonymity does allow for certain individuals to feel their opinion carried equal or more weight than that of others.

    I think that the restraint of the dentists on the forum is nothing short of astonishing, in the time since your current latest resurfacing the other dentists have helped a number of people with actual dental issues and made a number of good opinion posts.

    I suggested that the contributions of dentists should be consistent with the professional conduct standards of their profession. I also think this should be addressed by way of Guidance from the regulator. He is entitled to disagree with me, and I will defend his right to be wrong, but what he said was that my opinion "makes no sense".

    I don't know who Oral Surgeon is, but I am operating on the assumption that he is a dentist. He is entitled to hold the opinion that dentists should not have to adhere to the professional conduct standards of their profession when posting on message boards, but I think that is unethical, and I suspect so do you.


  • #18
    Hillmanhunter1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 332 ✭✭Hillmanhunter1


    Oral Surgeon wrote: »
    What's unethical about my post? You need to grow up HH.

    See my response to fitzgeme.


  • #19
    uck51js9zml2yt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,252 ✭✭✭✭uck51js9zml2yt


    Hillmanhunter1 wrote: »
    I suggested that the contributions of dentists should be consistent with the professional conduct standards of their profession. I also think this should be addressed by way of Guidance from the regulator. He is entitled to disagree with me, and I will defend his right to be wrong, but what he said was that my opinion "makes no sense".

    I don't know who Oral Surgeon is, but I am operating on the assumption that he is a dentist. He is entitled to hold the opinion that dentists should not have to adhere to the professional conduct standards of their profession when posting on message boards, but I think that is unethical, and I suspect so do you.

    The dentists here are anonymous and replying to posters queries which are also anonymous.
    Saying they can't post is like saying a fitness instructor can't post and give advice.
    Its general advice based on their collective experience.
    The only issue I see is that you don't like them exposing the failure you say was a success!

    I'm not a dentist. I have gone to denstists abroad as had my wife who has had crowns done. But as she is home for 2 months a year, she has time to get things done from a known source unlike tourist dentistry to unknown clinics.


  • #20
    Hillmanhunter1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 332 ✭✭Hillmanhunter1


    Maddison Broad Toothpaste wrote: »
    The dentists here are anonymous and replying to posters queries which are also anonymous.
    Saying they can't post is like saying a fitness instructor can't post and give advice.
    Its general advice based on their collective experience.
    The only issue I see is that you don't like them exposing the failure you say was a success!

    I'm not a dentist. I have gone to denstists abroad as had my wife who has had crowns done. But as she is home for 2 months a year, she has time to get things done from a known source unlike tourist dentistry to unknown clinics.

    Nobody has suggested that dentists can't post, I certainly haven't. The board would of course be much poorer without them. At the risk of repeating myself, I have only suggested that when posting with their dentist hats on their contributions should be consistent with the professional conduct standards of their profession, and that perhaps guidance in this regard would be helpful.


  • #21
    uck51js9zml2yt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,252 ✭✭✭✭uck51js9zml2yt


    Hillmanhunter1 wrote: »
    The world would be very dull place if we all agreed on everything!

    Personally I think that where dentists post on public forums about issues such as soccer, motor cars and relationships they are entitled to free speech, but where they post on a dental issues forum, wearing their dentists hat, then their contributions should be consistent with the professional conduct standards of their profession, and that does mean and should mean that they do not enjoy unqualified free speech in those circumstances.

    To be fair, I don't think any of the other posters have disagreed with this, but the question remains as to whether guidelines issued prior to the explosion in social media usage remain fit for purpose in todays world.

    Perhaps some examples of their supposed breaches would help :)


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  • #22
    hardCopy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,969 ✭✭✭hardCopy


    Who would the new code be designed to help or protect?


  • #23
    Hillmanhunter1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 332 ✭✭Hillmanhunter1


    hardCopy wrote: »
    Who would the new code be designed to help or protect?

    The Dental Council is the regulatory body, and they already have Codes of Practice in place. The purpose of all statutory regulators is consumer protection.

    I cant see who the members are however, four months after taking office they haven't managed to update their own website - doesn't augur well!
    http://www.dentalcouncil.ie/membership.php


  • #24
    Big_G
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,589 ✭✭✭Big_G


    Hillmanhunter1 wrote: »
    The world would be very dull place if we all agreed on everything!

    Personally I think that where dentists post on public forums about issues such as soccer, motor cars and relationships they are entitled to free speech, but where they post on a dental issues forum, wearing their dentists hat, then their contributions should be consistent with the professional conduct standards of their profession, and that does mean and should mean that they do not enjoy unqualified free speech in those circumstances.

    To be fair, I don't think any of the other posters have disagreed with this, but the question remains as to whether guidelines issued prior to the explosion in social media usage remain fit for purpose in todays world.

    The answer is yes. Unless you can identify any problems with dentists postings at the moment.


  • #25
    btkm8unsl0w5r4
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,251 ✭✭✭btkm8unsl0w5r4


    Hillmanhunter...I admire your moxy but best to go back into hibernation again for a while. Please do resurrect your thread with an update in the summer, a thread like that should never die.


  • #26
    Oral Surgeon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,235 ✭✭✭Oral Surgeon


    Hillmanhunter1 wrote: »
    Were you by any chance absent the day they did Ethics101?

    A timely article...
    http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/coping-no-actually-you-don-t-have-a-right-to-your-own-opinion-1.2585827

    I like this bit especially,
    Most importantly, stating “Well I have a right to my opinion” during a dispute is a public declaration that you have lost that dispute and have no defences left. Only when we cannot justify what we are saying with good reasons any more do we use that phrase. It is a way of refusing to consider someone else’s better-informed perspective, a way of hanging on to our initial view despite it being disproven. It is a way of saying “I can utter whatever I want whether or not it is justifiable or true, and you can’t disrespect it”.


    If you are going to express an opinion, make it an informed one.


  • #27
    Hillmanhunter1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 332 ✭✭Hillmanhunter1


    Oral Surgeon wrote: »
    A timely article...
    http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/coping-no-actually-you-don-t-have-a-right-to-your-own-opinion-1.2585827

    I like this bit especially,
    Most importantly, stating “Well I have a right to my opinion” during a dispute is a public declaration that you have lost that dispute and have no defences left. Only when we cannot justify what we are saying with good reasons any more do we use that phrase. It is a way of refusing to consider someone else’s better-informed perspective, a way of hanging on to our initial view despite it being disproven. It is a way of saying “I can utter whatever I want whether or not it is justifiable or true, and you can’t disrespect it”.


    If you are going to express an opinion, make it an informed one.

    This is an opinion piece, and in my opinion Laura Kennedy is just plain wrong!

    We are all entitled to our opinions, and to the right to form our own opinions. In this democratic age I think however that some people believe that this translates into "all opinions are equal", and that is where the nonsense creeps in.

    You might be of the opinion that the earth is flat. I hold that you have the right to have that opinion, but I might also hold that you are as daft as a brush.


  • #28
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,151 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Hillmanhunter1 wrote: »
    This is an opinion piece, and in my opinion Laura Kennedy is just plain wrong!

    We are all entitled to our opinions, and to the right to form our own opinions. In this democratic age I think however that some people believe that this translates into "all opinions are equal", and that is where the nonsense creeps in.

    You might be of the opinion that the earth is flat. I hold that you have the right to have that opinion, but I might also hold that you are as daft as a brush.

    you still havent explained why the existing code of ethics is not sufficient.


  • #29
    Hillmanhunter1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 332 ✭✭Hillmanhunter1


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    you still havent explained why the existing code of ethics is not sufficient.

    The only thing I can find on the Dental Council website is this:
    "Your use of social media (such as Facebook, Twitter and so on) should be responsible and
    discreet. Indiscretion in the use of social media is not acceptable and could leave you
    liable to fitness to practise proceedings."
    And it is not clear to me that this applies to anything more than the personal Facebook, Twitter etc. pages of dentists.
    I think that where dentists are anonymously moderating a public forum, and stating that they are dentists, then the relevant regulator should give guidance and perhaps even monitor that activity.


  • #30
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,151 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Hillmanhunter1 wrote: »
    The only thing I can find on the Dental Council website is this:
    "Your use of social media (such as Facebook, Twitter and so on) should be responsible and
    discreet. Indiscretion in the use of social media is not acceptable and could leave you
    liable to fitness to practise proceedings."
    And it is not clear to me that this applies to anything more than the personal Facebook, Twitter etc. pages of dentists.
    I think that where dentists are anonymously moderating a public forum, and stating that they are dentists, then the relevant regulator should give guidance and perhaps even monitor that activity.


    you dont think "and so on" includes other social media like for instance boards.ie? does it need to exclusively list every form of social media?

    You seem to have a problem with information posted by dentists here. if you think any of them have broken their code of ethics in their posting here then feel free to report them to the dental council. As for suggestion that the dental council "monitor social media", well, if you cant see how ridiculous that is then i will bid you adieu.


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  • #31
    Big_G
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,589 ✭✭✭Big_G


    Hillmanhunter1 wrote: »
    The only thing I can find on the Dental Council website is this:
    "Your use of social media (such as Facebook, Twitter and so on) should be responsible and
    discreet. Indiscretion in the use of social media is not acceptable and could leave you
    liable to fitness to practise proceedings."
    And it is not clear to me that this applies to anything more than the personal Facebook, Twitter etc. pages of dentists.
    I think that where dentists are anonymously moderating a public forum, and stating that they are dentists, then the relevant regulator should give guidance and perhaps even monitor that activity.

    Because you are unhappy or disagree with what we are saying and you have not had success complaining to our moderators in the past you want the dental council to row in. What makes you think they will be on your side? What makes you think they will come down and tell us that we can't offer free information to people on the internet? Your view is that our opinions are invalid because A) we have a vested interest in people not going abroad and B) because you had what you view as a good experience.
    To answer A) the number of people travelling abroad is tiny, Eastern European clinics setting up here have been closed because they cannot afford to run a business in this country at their prices or worse have had dentists struck off due to poor performance. Some dentists can keep their doors open fixing the poor quality work done abroad. B) N=1 is hardly a sizeable sample, not to mention significantly lacking in objectivity. It is understandable for you to criticize anyone that does not agree with your world view. It isn't, however, fair to call our professionalism in to question.


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