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Footballer Adam Johnson jailed for 6 years

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Comments

  • #32
    icecream99
    Closed Accounts Posts: 41 ✭icecream99


    I don't for one minute support Johnson or condone what he did.

    He sounds like an utter scumbag, repeatedly cheating on a girl who bore him their child and wanted to create a secure family unit.

    However, based on the evidence, and based on other sentences that other UK cases have given out, I think 6 years is disproportionate.

    It's quite different to kidnapping a pre-pubecesent child of the street.

    If it was my daughter, yes, I would want to strangle him.

    The girl was immature, and was the victim of manipulation by a mature adult.

    However, she is over the age of criminal responsibility. If she was in court as a defendant, she would have been expected to take responsibility for her actions. Yet in this case, where she is the victim, she is expected to take no responsibility for her actions, which include, partaking in 100s if not 1000s of messages, some of which were clearly suggestive ? I'm not blaming her whatsoever, but I think as a parent, you would be asking questions of your child.


  • #33
    armaghlad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,660 ✭✭✭armaghlad


    RayM wrote: »
    I do wonder about the mindset of those whose first instinct upon hearing about a man being jailed for sex with a child is to search for cases where the gender roles are reversed. It's almost as though they find inconsistency more offensive than child abuse.
    What's wrong with finding precedent?


  • #34
    Gatling
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    It kinda sounds harse but I've seen lighter sentences for actual child rape in the uk it's likely more to do with his footballer status that helped the case .

    Seems their was reports going back several weeks of a massive compensation claim due to be lodged which should never have been made public knowledge either .

    After the huge witch hunt over the last few years it was expected he would do 10 years
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




  • #35
    DareGod
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,298 ✭✭✭DareGod


    There is rarely any consistency in criminal punishments and jail sentences, and more often than not the punishment is unfair, be it too lenient or too harsh. That's an unfortunate fact of modern society.


  • #36
    Grayditch
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,347 ✭✭✭✭Grayditch


    Penny Tration wrote: »
    Er, I didn't change anything. He was found guilty of digitally penetrating her. which is why I said he groomed and penetrated her, rather than groom and have sex.

    Wow, didn't heard that part at all. My bad.


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  • #37
    DareGod
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,298 ✭✭✭DareGod


    RayM wrote: »
    I do wonder about the mindset of those whose first instinct upon hearing about a man being jailed for sex with a child is to search for cases where the gender roles are reversed. It's almost as though they find inconsistency more offensive than child abuse.

    Your final sentence there is no more than your own interpretation of it. I highly doubt that what you've said is ever actually the case.

    Back on topic, to respond to your initial point, it's actually quite an extremely important inconsistency that absolutely needs to be addressed, so that's probably why so many people address it straight away. Are you suggesting that such inconsistencies should be ignored? Why? What do you want these people to say about the child abuse, exactly? That part has already been dealt with in court.


  • #38
    osarusan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,816 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    DareGod wrote: »
    Are you suggesting that such inconsistencies should be ignored? Why?
    Your final sentence there is no more than your own interpretation of it. I highly doubt that what you've said is ever actually the case.


  • #39
    DareGod
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,298 ✭✭✭DareGod


    osarusan wrote: »
    Your final sentence there is no more than your own interpretation of it. I highly doubt that what you've said is ever actually the case.

    No, it was not an interpretation. At all.


  • #40
    osarusan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,816 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    Sorry, I didn't mean interpretation, I meant strawman.


  • #41
    sabat
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,896 ✭✭✭sabat


    RayM wrote: »
    I do wonder about the mindset of those whose first instinct upon hearing about a man being jailed for sex with a child is to search for cases where the gender roles are reversed. It's almost as though they find inconsistency more offensive than child abuse.

    But he didn't have sex with her and she wasn't really a child though-in much of Europe this wouldn't even be illegal. He's still a sleazy rat who deserved some type of sentence (maybe 2 years suspended or similar) but throwing him into the same category as actual paedophiles is unfair.


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  • #42
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 26,052 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    icecream99 wrote: »
    I don't for one minute support Johnson or condone what he did.

    He sounds like an utter scumbag, repeatedly cheating on a girl who bore him their child and wanted to create a secure family unit.

    However, based on the evidence, and based on other sentences that other UK cases have given out, I think 6 years is disproportionate.

    It's quite different to kidnapping a pre-pubecesent child of the street.

    If it was my daughter, yes, I would want to strangle him.

    The girl was immature, and was the victim of manipulation by a mature adult.

    However, she is over the age of criminal responsibility. If she was in court as a defendant, she would have been expected to take responsibility for her actions. Yet in this case, where she is the victim, she is expected to take no responsibility for her actions, which include, partaking in 100s if not 1000s of messages, some of which were clearly suggestive ? I'm not blaming her whatsoever, but I think as a parent, you would be asking questions of your child.

    I'm glad you're not blaming her, because she was 15 and he was the adult.

    That's why there's an age of consent, because people who are below it are sometimes prone to making stupid decisions they think they can handle, and the law recognises that and that's why it holds the adults accountable for grooming them - manipulating them into taking part in this kind of thing over time - and that's why even if she's over the age of criminal responsibility, she'd be tried as a juvenile if she comitted a crime.

    I'm sure you don't think she was responsible for him probably singling her out as probably being open to that manipulation and exploitation, and I'm sure in that light, you see her 'suggestive' messages as the actions of a manipulated minor.

    She doesn't need questions asked of her, she needs the adults around her to help her explore why she responded to predator.


  • #43
    Penny Tration
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,687 ✭✭✭✭Penny Tration


    sabat wrote: »
    But he didn't have sex with her and she wasn't really a child though-in much of Europe this wouldn't even be illegal. He's still a sleazy rat who deserved some type of sentence (maybe 2 years suspended or similar) but throwing him into the same category as actual paedophiles is unfair.

    She was 15. How is that "not really a child?"


  • #44
    Irishcrx
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,861 ✭✭✭Irishcrx


    At the end of the day he put himself in this situation and deserves the sentence , no doubt the courts are setting a precedent with the ruling as well as this has been a high profile case.

    What he did was groom an under age child , which he knew about and engage in sexual activity with her, in what manner I believe guilty or not nobody really knows but them. But the intent was there and he certainly would have had sex with the girl given the opportunity, he said as much in his messages.

    Boo Hoo for Johnson , he threw his family and career into the gutter by being a pervert.

    I wonder will he go to 'actual' jail though with common inmates or because of who he is will he be in a protected unit?


  • #45
    Little CuChulainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    ahnowbrowncow wrote: »
    Woman has sex with 11 year old and gets no jail time.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3295537/Attorney-General-review-sentence-babysitter-Jade-Hatt-21-sex-11-year-old-boy-spared-jail.html

    Johnson gets six years, didn't have sex with the 15 year old.

    Where's the consistency?

    From a follow up article
    her low IQ and very poor reasoning skills amounted to 'substantial mitigation', as did her remorse and admission of guilt.

    So the cases weren't similar really. There was also no grooming or pre meditation in the case you linked.


  • #46
    DareGod
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,298 ✭✭✭DareGod


    osarusan wrote: »
    Sorry, I didn't mean interpretation, I meant strawman.

    His was an opinion masquerading as a conclusion - a nonsense conclusion based on nothing, and it was important that that was pointed out.

    Mine was very obviously a question - a question which was based on his very own words.

    And he is also completely free to clarify.


  • #47
    sabat
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,896 ✭✭✭sabat


    Penny Tration wrote: »
    She was 15. How is that "not really a child?"

    A child is someone who hasn't reached puberty; 15 is an adolescent.


  • #48
    osarusan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,816 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    Little CuChulainn wrote: »
    From a follow up article



    So the cases weren't similar really. There was also no grooming or pre meditation in the case you linked.


    Regarding the low IQ bit, Johnson also had a doctor testify: "This is a man who, at the age of 28, is socially and psychologically immature."

    I'd imagine most people/their solicitors will play this card prior to sentencing.


  • #49
    ahnowbrowncow
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,590 ✭✭✭ahnowbrowncow


    RayM wrote: »
    I do wonder about the mindset of those whose first instinct upon hearing about a man being jailed for sex with a child is to search for cases where the gender roles are reversed. It's almost as though they find inconsistency more offensive than child abuse.

    So you agree that having sex with an 11 year old should be a non custodial sentence?

    I haven't been discussing any case where a man was jailed for having sex with a child.


  • #50
    RayM
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,973 ✭✭✭RayM


    DareGod wrote: »
    Are you suggesting that such inconsistencies should be ignored?

    I'm suggesting that on the topic of sexual assault, some men's priorities are fucked up... From the gender-role-reversal whataboutery, to the "actually, it wasn't rape" comments, to the suggestion that she wasn't "really" a child.
    sabat wrote:
    But he didn't have sex with her and she wasn't really a child though-in much of Europe this wouldn't even be illegal.

    He was found guilty of sexual activity with a child. Jesus wept.


  • #51
    Cathy.C
    Closed Accounts Posts: 637 ✭✭✭Cathy.C


    My thought would be in line with (the mostly wrong and seldom right) Katie Hopkins recently had to say on matter. Had the girl involved been a few years younger then that would be quite different but six years, for what amounted to brief sexual contact and which no force was used or implied, seems quite harsh to me. I wonder if he wasn't so successful would such a sentence have been felt suitable. I'm not so sure.


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  • #52
    icecream99
    Closed Accounts Posts: 41 ✭icecream99


    Candie wrote: »
    I'm glad you're not blaming her, because she was 15 and he was the adult.

    That's why there's an age of consent, because people who are below it are sometimes prone to making stupid decisions they think they can handle, and the law recognises that and that's why it holds the adults accountable for grooming them - manipulating them into taking part in this kind of thing over time - and that's why even if she's over the age of criminal responsibility, she'd be tried as a juvenile if she comitted a crime.

    I'm sure you don't think she was responsible for him probably singling her out as probably being open to that manipulation and exploitation, and I'm sure in that light, you see her 'suggestive' messages as the actions of a manipulated minor.

    She doesn't need questions asked of her, she needs the adults around her to help her explore why she responded to predator.

    Johnson was a class A A$$hole who deserves a custodial sentence. Even if she was 16 or 17, I would regard Johnson as a creeply, slimy, gross perverted predator with an unhealthy interest in girls far too young for a man of his age.

    However, does anybody really believe that 15 years and 364 days old, is any different from 16 years and 1 day old. Sometimes, people under an arbitrary age limit are capable of making decisions, and do know the difference between right, wrong and there is something not right about this.

    As I said, if it was my daughter, I would hurt him. However, if it was my daughter, who is younger than the girl in question, I would also be asking questions of her. Ultimately she knows what is right, what is wrong, and what is questionable.


  • #53
    sabat
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,896 ✭✭✭sabat


    RayM wrote: »

    He was found guilty of sexual activity with a child. Jesus wept.

    So you're saying that the hundreds of thousands of Irish men who've fingered a 15 year old are all paedophile rapists?


  • #54
    RayM
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,973 ✭✭✭RayM


    sabat wrote: »
    So you're saying that the hundreds of thousands of Irish men who've fingered a 15 year old are all paedophile rapists?

    So you're saying that it's perfectly ok for a millionaire footballer in his late 20s to put his finger in a 15-year-old's vagina?

    See, I can play this misrepresentation game too.


  • #55
    NIMAN
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,605 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    Although I have zero sympathy for him, it's hard to understand how a female teacher who had repeated intercourse with one of her 15 year old pupils got a suspended sentence.

    It must surely give Johnson something to base an appeal on.


  • #56
    Penny Tration
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,687 ✭✭✭✭Penny Tration


    sabat wrote: »
    So you're saying that the hundreds of thousands of Irish men who've fingered a 15 year old are all paedophile rapists?

    Why are you putting words in the poster's mouth. Adam Johnson isn't a paedophile or a rapist.

    But an adult man, much older than the 15 year old, is a nasty, creepy predator.


  • #57
    sabat
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,896 ✭✭✭sabat


    RayM wrote: »
    So you're saying that it's perfectly ok for a millionaire footballer in his late 20s to put his finger in a 15-year-old's vagina?

    See, I can play this misrepresentation game too.

    No. I even said he deserved a criminal conviction, albeit a lot shorter or suspended. He's clearly being made an example of.


  • #58
    jaykay74
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,608 ✭✭✭jaykay74


    icecream99 wrote: »

    However, does anybody really believe that 15 years and 364 days old, is any different from 16 years and 1 day old. Sometimes, people under an arbitrary age limit are capable of making decisions, and do know the difference between right, wrong and there is something not right about this.

    Was she just about to turn 16 in a few days ? I had heard she had only turned 15. My mistake I guess.


  • #59
    RayM
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,973 ✭✭✭RayM


    sabat wrote: »
    No. I even said he deserved a criminal conviction, albeit a lot shorter or suspended. He's clearly being made an example of.

    Oh, I must have deliberately misrepresented your post for the sole purpose of creating a crude caricature of your opinion. Sorry about that.


  • #60
    wakka12
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,786 ✭✭✭wakka12


    God such a moron. Obviously got much of a thrill out of being with a girl who's underage than anything else to do with it like her personality or looks etc..as if theres nobody over 16 he could have just been happy with and avoided all this ****. Or even waited the 6 months or so before she was legal

    Feel no sympathy for him


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  • #61
    icecream99
    Closed Accounts Posts: 41 ✭icecream99


    wakka12 wrote: »
    God such a moron. Obviously got much of a thrill out of being with a girl who's underage than anything else to do with it like her personality or looks etc..as if theres nobody over 16 he could have just been happy with and avoided all this ****. Or even waited the 6 months or so before she was legal

    Feel no sympathy for him

    Premiership footballer in a provincial northern town ? He was probably beating them off with a sh1tty stick. The " thrill of the chase " disappears.

    Perfect example is George Michael.

    Could have his way with beautiful women.

    Could have his way with hunky men.

    Instead, hung around dingy public toilets on B roads, waiting for paunchy middle aged truck drivers, and the illicit thrill of being " naughty ".


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