?Experimental project ?Haptic steering assist

oledaveoh · 10-03-2016 04:19PM #1

Hey everyone, hope this doesn't break any rules of the group but I was looking to see if anyone was interested in taking a look at a project Im working on that's nearing prototype completion.

It's essentially a haptic steering kit ( embedding vibrating motors to handle bars to help direct you to a destination ) which connects to a mapping app which is essentially the brains.
Looking to garner some discussion and valuable feedback from passionate bikers. Mainly around some design choices. May even send out some test kits to beta test ( no concrete promises on this just yet )
I think this would be most useful for city bikers.

Anyway, reach out to me here or through message and I will invite you to the Facebook group for more.

Cheers
Dave

bazermc · 10-03-2016 09:46PM

You what?

stecleary · 11-03-2016 12:14AM

bazermc wrote: »

You what?

Simply put... Handle bars that link to an app and vibrate to tell you to turn left or right.

Cee-Jay-Cee · 11-03-2016 12:28AM

stecleary wrote: »

Simply put... Handle bars that link to an app and vibrate to tell you to turn left or right.

So this app is on a cyclists phone I presume? The same phone on which they could install a navigation app or simply use google map/directions if they were somewhere they weren't sure of???

I would think I'd be quite safe in saying there would be zero interest in such a navigation aid. People can use their phones and secondly the vibrating handlebars require power which means having to charge them every so often....not happening me thinks.

68 lost souls · 11-03-2016 01:33AM

Differentiating vibrations from General road vibrations would be challenging and competing with Garmin devices and the likes would be very tough but saying that I have taken several wrong turns even using my garmin 310 due to scale issues and multiple turns within a 200-500m distance

mossym · 11-03-2016 07:56AM

68 lost souls wrote: »

Differentiating vibrations from General road vibrations would be challenging and competing with Garmin devices and the likes would be very tough but saying that I have taken several wrong turns even using my garmin 310 due to scale issues and multiple turns within a 200-500m distance

those errors are down to the gps inaccuracies, gps on the phone cna suffer the same issues, and as a result this proposed system is as likely to feed you false indications as anything else.

also, having been involved in haptic technologies for mobiles for a few years, i know the issues involved, and i cannot see this being a success on a bike. why use haptics? its full of problems you have to overcome. why not just put a unit with a red led for left and a green for right, either on the handlebars or on the front of the helmet where the rider can see it. same result, much less hassle

Lumen · 11-03-2016 09:33AM

If you put the haptics on the saddle you might generate more enthusiasm from the majority of the population.

Merrion · 11-03-2016 09:40AM

How about - Bluetooth connected cycling glasses with rudimentary head-up display?

mossym · 11-03-2016 09:50AM

Merrion wrote: »

How about - Bluetooth connected cycling glasses with rudimentary head-up display?

like these?
http://www.reconinstruments.com/products/jet/

outfox · 11-03-2016 09:51AM

Come on guys. Let's give the guys some ideas. The level of R&D in this country is way too low. Who knows - the idea might be picked up by some other sector. We might all make millions out of it.
Having said that, I agree that haptic on a bike is probably not ideal. The red/green lights, suggested above may be better. Or a beep.

CramCycle · 11-03-2016 10:21AM

Or an earphone in one ear with google maps turned on your phone?

Fian · 11-03-2016 10:35AM

I notice you say you think it is suitable for city biking, does this mean you only intend to fit to flat handlebars?

I agree with previous posters that haptic feedback is not ideal for biking, because we are getting road vibrations through the handlebars constantly. If you design something with a large enough amplitude to overcome that and ensure it is not drowned out it will be irritating and it would also run down batteries quickly.

PaddyFagan · 11-03-2016 10:44AM

Another thought (again not convinced that the handlebars will work with the road buzz) - but how about a wristband with a vibrate? I've been wearing a fitbit for the last couple of months - I noticed that the buzz when my phone rings is very clear - even when I'm doing things and wouldn't notice my phone itself vibrating.

Paddy

Thud · 11-03-2016 11:03AM

mossym wrote: »

why not just put a unit with a red led for left and a green for right, either on the handlebars or on the front of the helmet where the rider can see it. same result, much less hassle

few of thos available already

https://www.smarthalo.bike/

http://hammerhead.io/

https://beeline.co/

http://coolpile.com/gadgets-magazine/schwinn-cyclenav-get-gps-navigation-bike

mossym · 11-03-2016 11:06AM

Thud wrote: »

few of thos available already

https://www.smarthalo.bike/

http://hammerhead.io/

https://beeline.co/

http://coolpile.com/gadgets-magazine/schwinn-cyclenav-get-gps-navigation-bike

knew it was a good idea

. given that, i don't see what a haptic version brings except more failure points and additional problems

CramCycle · 13-03-2016 08:14PM

mossym wrote: »

knew it was a good idea . given that, i don't see what a haptic version brings except more failure points and additional problems

+1 haptic feedback kicking in at the same time as a cross wind on a bend, instant wipe out. This just is not a good idea. To be felt over road buzz it would have to have enough feedback to be a risk.

mossym · 14-03-2016 08:39AM

CramCycle wrote: »

To be felt over road buzz it would have to have enough feedback to be a risk.

agreed. also, haptic actuators tend to targeted at a small area. the bigger an area you try to get them to cover, the harder it is to get them to work effectively. there is no point having a system like this if the user misses the cue because they were in the drops rather than on the hoods.

and then the bar is a single piece, so how do you stop the left hand feeling the right hand side, which would make it very difficult to distinguish from road buzz as you said.

Peterx · 14-03-2016 10:22AM

mossym wrote: »

agreed. also, haptic actuators tend to targeted at a small area. the bigger an area you try to get them to cover, the harder it is to get them to work effectively. there is no point having a system like this if the user misses the cue because they were in the drops rather than on the hoods.

and then the bar is a single piece, so how do you stop the left hand feeling the right hand side, which would make it very difficult to distinguish from road buzz as you said.

ahh now you can't have it both ways. If he can't feel a top mounted vibration on the drops how can he feel it over on the other side of the bars?

It's a project that might be happier in an environment with less built in vibration - perhaps as someone already suggested two rings or bracelets mounted on the user as opposed to the bike.

sconhome · 14-03-2016 10:33AM

Wire contacts into the bar tape on each side.

If a right turn is coming up a small shock is felt in the right hand forcing you to lift off and make a hand signal, similar for left hand. 2 birds, 1 stone.

mossym · 14-03-2016 10:34AM

Peterx wrote: »

ahh now you can't have it both ways. If he can't feel a top mounted vibration on the drops how can he feel it over on the other side of the bars?

that's my point, if you make it strong enough to make it detectable whether in drops or hoods how do you stop it transmitting to the other side. and if you keep it localized then the rider hand position becomes a problem

not asking to have it both ways. pointing out that addressing one issue with haptics often causes another . was a problem with smaller items like phones, let alone handlebars

mossym · 14-03-2016 11:29AM

sconhome wrote: »

Wire contacts into the bar tape on each side.

If a right turn is coming up a small shock is felt in the right hand forcing you to lift off and make a hand signal, similar for left hand. 2 birds, 1 stone.

i think you may have strayed outside what could legitimately be described as haptics though..:)

'68 Fastback · 14-03-2016 02:08PM

What about a set of grips for dublin bikes that shock the rider when they go through a red light?

mossym · 24-03-2016 01:26PM

would find this much more interesting

https://speedx.com/en/pc/sf.html

would still have doubt's over it.

Zen0 · 24-03-2016 01:36PM

mossym wrote: »

would find this much more interesting

https://speedx.com/en/pc/sf.html

would still have doubt's over it.

Only comes in one length. Well that rules out most road bike users instantly. So much for knowing your market.

mossym · 24-03-2016 02:09PM

Zen0 wrote: »

Only comes in one length. Well that rules out most road bike users instantly. So much for knowing your market.

easy enough to scale the length after they make some money i guess. launch in one size, keep costs low until you see interest level. i can't think of any reason you couldn't at least make 90, 100 and 110 mm versions of it, which should address most

PaulieC · 24-03-2016 02:32PM

mossym wrote: »

easy enough to scale the length after they make some money i guess. launch in one size, keep costs low until you see interest level. i can't think of any reason you couldn't at least make 90, 100 and 110 mm versions of it, which should address most

That's all very well, but how would you charge it ? Lots of USB shenanigans...

mossym · 24-03-2016 02:37PM

PaulieC wrote: »

That's all very well, but how would you charge it ? Lots of USB shenanigans...

same way you charge Di2? charging issue is the same for every solution in this thread

in posting the product i meant more the idea than this specific incarnation in case anyone thinks i am promoting this product.

but if you are going to have a few things needing power, lights, computer, the idea of putting a single battery into a stem and only having to charge that one thing makes a lot of sense. better than running separate charging cables for everything

?Experimental project ?Haptic steering assist

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