Shootings in Paris - MOD NOTE UPDATED - READ OP

Billy86 · 23-03-2016 05:00PM

jimgoose wrote: »

There's no need to kill the idea. All you have to do is kill everyone who has that idea and is inclined to act on it.

This plan is flawless, it's such a relief that people don't reproduce!!

m5ex9oqjawdg2i · 23-03-2016 05:03PM

Mesrine65 wrote: »

The objective is to eliminate the enemy & prevent his resurgance, this cannot be achieved in a Geneva Convention, sanitized type of warfare unfortunately.

Dirty tactics & unconventional covert warfare carried out by small tactical groups is the only way to achieve this goal.

So murder innocent civilians, women, children, peaceful people, people who want nothing to do with Daesh, or who are indifferent to the west. You want them blown to pieces in their beds while they sleep? In the streets while they go about their daily duties? Because that is exactly what is happening.

Terrorism to answer terrorism is absolutely not the way forward. That is a couple of steps back and I can't see it doing anything but worsen the situation.

Mesrine65 · 23-03-2016 05:12PM

Carlee Noisy Screenplay wrote: »

So murder innocent civilians, women, children, peaceful people, people who want nothing to do with Daesh, or who are indifferent to the west.

No, I am not suggesting anything of the sort, I'm talking about counter insurgency, surveillance, intelligence gathering & specific targeting of prime enemy combatants with small tactical teams being sent in to take them out, much like the way Bin Laden was taken out.

Daesh funding themselves with oil money...send in specialized units to destroy the source of income, much in the way the SAS harangued Rommel's troop with hit & run tactics & sabotage missions in the desert in WWII

wes · 23-03-2016 05:41PM

Mesrine65 wrote: »

& I respect your opinion Wes, but what is the answer to defeating terrorism in your opinion?

Maybe I spent to long in the military & it clouds my judgement, we were subject to ridiculous ROE in Rwanda where we couldn't fire unless fired upon & as a result, we had to watch while innocents were butchered with machetes...our hands were tied by military convention/law.

One starts to ask oneself...WTF am I here for then?

I have no idea, I just know that current tactics have failed miserably, and that it would make sense to look at went wrong with the so called war on terror, as clearly things have gotten far worse, then when it started in 2001.

For example, perhaps removing dictators regardless of how awful they are, is something that needs to be abandoned. Saddam was removed and Iraq went to hell, removing Ghaddifi and Libya seems like it may end up the same. Basically, learn from mistakes and don't repeat them.

I think continuing existing policies doesn't make sense.

Nodin · 23-03-2016 06:15PM

jimgoose wrote: »

There's no need to kill the idea. All you have to do is kill everyone who has that idea and is inclined to act on it.

That's grand, but they don't all go round with a t-shirt that says "I'm dyin to be a martyr" on it.

fed up sick and tired · 23-03-2016 06:29PM

Billy86 wrote: »

This plan is flawless, it's such a relief that people don't reproduce!!

I'd say you need a lot of 'relief'.

Billy86 · 23-03-2016 06:30PM

fed up sick and tired wrote: »

I'd say you need a lot of 'relief'.

Cheers for the personal attack, as witty as ever I see. Also a solid effort disproving my point - you can't kill an idea.

stoplooklisten · 23-03-2016 06:34PM

Billy86 wrote: »

Cheers for the personal attack, as witty as ever I see. Also a solid effort disproving my point - you can't kill an idea.

sure you can

"the idea that being gay is wrong"
"the idea that having slaves is normal"

both of the above are ideas that have killed off

Billy86 · 23-03-2016 06:38PM

stoplooklisten wrote: »

sure you can

"the idea that being gay is wrong"
"the idea that having slaves is normal"

both of the above are ideas that have killed off

You can't, and those ideas are good examples because they were not killed. Homophobia is still prevalent in society today, and slave ownership as well as indentured servitude still exist.

Surely you don't think homophobia and slavery no longer exist, and are no longer ideas?

Both are however more marginalised. So let me ask you this... was homophobia being the norm overcome by hacking and torturing every homophobe in the world to pieces? And was slavery being the norm overcome by butchering all the slave owners in the world, and their families as well?

Hitchens · 23-03-2016 06:47PM

there are areas of European cities which have become poisonous breeding grounds for radicalized Islamic terror.

the enemy is within, born and bred, ...........but alien to our mores

stoplooklisten · 23-03-2016 06:48PM

Billy86 wrote: »

You can't, and those ideas are good examples because they were not killed. Homophobia is still prevalent in society today, and slave ownership as well as indentured servitude still exist.

Surely you don't think homophobia and slavery no longer exist, and are no longer ideas?

Both are however more marginalised. So let me ask you this... was homophobia being the norm overcome by hacking and torturing every homophobe in the world to pieces? And was slavery being the norm overcome by butchering all the slave owners in the world, and their families as well?

condemnation by their immediate community, public outcry and shown the error of their ways has changed attitudes. Where's the condemnation from the community?

JPNelsforearm · 23-03-2016 06:52PM

Billy86 wrote: »

You can't, and those ideas are good examples because they were not killed. Homophobia is still prevalent in society today, and slave ownership as well as indentured servitude still exist.

Surely you don't think homophobia and slavery no longer exist, and are no longer ideas?

Both are however more marginalised. So let me ask you this... was homophobia being the norm overcome by hacking and torturing every homophobe in the world to pieces? And was slavery being the norm overcome by butchering all the slave owners in the world, and their families as well?

I'd say the 400k odd dead in the US civil war, the dead in the Barbary wars would say, yes, to some degree.

Nodin · 23-03-2016 06:56PM

Hitchens wrote: »

there are areas of European cities which have become poisonous breeding grounds for radicalized Islamic terror.

the enemy is within, born and bred, ...........but alien to our mores

Not at all worrying.

Billy86 · 23-03-2016 09:04PM

stoplooklisten wrote: »

condemnation by their immediate community, public outcry and shown the error of their ways has changed attitudes. Where's the condemnation from the community?

What, homophobes condemned other homophobes into no longer being homophobic? Or did slave owners condemn other slave owners about their slavery until they decided to free their slaves?

And once again, are you claiming homophobia and slavery no longer exist?

stoplooklisten · 23-03-2016 09:05PM

Billy86 wrote: »

What, homophobes condemned other homophobes into no longer being homophobic? Or did slave owners condemn other slave owners about their slavery until they decided to free their slaves?

And once again, are you claiming homophobia and slavery no longer exist?

Are you telling me you can openly and proudly be homophobic or a slave owner in Ireland and not be shunned by society?

Billy86 · 23-03-2016 09:06PM

JPNelsforearm wrote: »

I'd say the 400k odd dead in the US civil war, the dead in the Barbary wars would say, yes, to some degree.

I would say the fact that slavery exists still today, and did after the civil war would say, no, beyond a shadow of a doubt.

Homophobia and slavery are about as dead as you and I.

Billy86 · 23-03-2016 09:08PM

stoplooklisten wrote: »

Are you telling me you can openly and proudly be homophobic or a slave owner in Ireland and not be shunned by society?

I'm telling you the ideas and practices of homophobia and slavery are very much alive today. They were not killed, and claims they were are proven incorrect by... the very existence of homophobia and slavery.

stoplooklisten · 23-03-2016 09:09PM

Billy86 wrote: »

I'm telling you the ideas and practices of homophobia and slavery are very much alive today. They were not killed, and claims they were are proven incorrect by... the very existence of homophobia and slavery.

How many slaves do you own?

Billy86 · 23-03-2016 09:17PM

stoplooklisten wrote: »

How many slaves do you own?

How many terrorist attacks have you committed? I'd imagine they're a similar number.

Can we celebrate the killing of terrorism now?

fed up sick and tired · 23-03-2016 10:34PM

Billy86 wrote: »

I would say the fact that slavery exists still today, and did after the civil war would say, no, beyond a shadow of a doubt.

Homophobia and slavery are about as dead as you and I.

Depends on how you define 'idea'.

I say that the idea of slavery is dead.

In other words, the belief in it and acceptance of it as a legitimate aspiration, or social structure, or economic transaction is overwhelmingly rejected.

The fact that the phenomenon is experienced by misfortunate people, doesn't change that.

The revulsion that accompanies its exposition proves that as an idea it is dead.

Ally Dick · 23-03-2016 10:36PM

Do Ireland still allow US military flights to stopover at Shannon ?

JCX BXC · 23-03-2016 11:09PM

Ally Dick wrote: »

Do Ireland still allow US military flights to stopover at Shannon ?

Considering you're actually asking, I'd say your preparing for a rant.

Troops stop over in Shannon, unarmed. I can see ISIS having better targets than a relatively small airport in the sparsely populated West Of Ireland, which has an extremely lacking muslim population in comparison to the rest of europe.

If you wish to call conspiracy, go ahead, won't help anyone though.

Billy86 · 23-03-2016 11:48PM

fed up sick and tired wrote: »

Depends on how you define 'idea'.

I say that the idea of slavery is dead.

In other words, the belief in it and acceptance of it as a legitimate aspiration, or social structure, or economic transaction is overwhelmingly rejected.

The fact that the phenomenon is experienced by misfortunate people, doesn't change that.

The revulsion that accompanies its exposition proves that as an idea it is dead.

It still occurs more regularly than people would expect though, and thus it is not dead.

Someone posted a while back (abusestoilets I think) particular forms of military action are needed - and I filly agree - but you have to win over the hearts and minds of the everyday people in that area or any harsh actions (or even not so harsh ones) will be spun by IS to radicalise young Muslims.

The talk of torturing families and bombing the area to rubble, or even strong and dignified/fairer (EG not torture) military action on its own is exactly what IS want and plays directly into their hands on this front. Even if IS were to be eradicated, someone else would take their spot straight away, and if anything would be even more radical and closed off to talks.

Yeah_Right · 24-03-2016 02:08AM

^^^^
Talks!! You actually think talking to them will resolve this? I think that's deluded.

kupus · 24-03-2016 02:25AM

maybe we can have a circle of trust and talk about our feelings with them.

useful idiots indeed. Talking only plays into their hands. Because while your talking they are doing. Doing what is another question.

Billy86 · 24-03-2016 03:39AM

Yeah_Right wrote: »

^^^^
Talks!! You actually think talking to them will resolve this? I think that's deluded.

Hence why I said "even more".

JackieBauer · 24-03-2016 05:16AM

**** Syria and Iraq. Put armed forces in certain neighbourhoods in Paris, Brussels, Berlin, London, Birmingham, Bradford etc. etc for the foreseeable future. If the locals are innocent they might actually appreciate the added security. Time to get tough. Enough is enough! Unfortunately, I'm afraid we'll need another few of these attacks in the west before people get real.

BoatMad · 28-03-2016 12:32AM

JackieBauer wrote: »

**** Syria and Iraq. Put armed forces in certain neighbourhoods in Paris, Brussels, Berlin, London, Birmingham, Bradford etc. etc for the foreseeable future. If the locals are innocent they might actually appreciate the added security. Time to get tough. Enough is enough! Unfortunately, I'm afraid we'll need another few of these attacks in the west before people get real.

I personally think that if this continues or gets markedly worse, then Europe will see internment as an option. You simply cant deal with this stuff through conventional civil justice

fr336 · 28-03-2016 07:43PM

BoatMad wrote: »

I personally think that if this continues or gets markedly worse, then Europe will see internment as an option. You simply cant deal with this stuff through conventional civil justice

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

KingBrian2 · 28-03-2016 09:00PM

More deadly explosions this week in Iraq and Pakistan. This time a football match as they were giving out a trophy to the winning soccer team. More devastating attacks against innocent Muslims in their own countries without us worrying about terrorism at home Muslim countries are have it hard themselves.

Shootings in Paris - MOD NOTE UPDATED - READ OP

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