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Shootings in Paris - MOD NOTE UPDATED - READ OP

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Comments

  • #7112
    walshyn93
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,685 ✭✭✭walshyn93


    KingBrian2 wrote: »
    It was silly the other day people going around hugging people as a way of making people love each other. That's not the way to heal intercommunity animosity. Foolish to believe gestures like hugging Muslims is a solution to the current terrorist threat. Infact they could be part of the problem as they are highlighting the stereotyping of Muslims as being associated with terrorism.

    They're highlighting how much this continent is ripe for the picking. It's just more motivation to push on. The weaker we appear the more they will feel victory is near.


  • #7113
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    walshyn93 wrote: »
    Ridiculously vague article.

    Name one difference of any consequence.

    This has to be one of the worst displays of intellectual dishonesty I've seen here, which is truly a fright to god.


  • #7114
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    walshyn93 wrote: »
    No. Transubstantiation. Immaculate Conception. Predestination. Many differences. Just like Shias and Sunnis. None that are of interest to those outside the religion.

    It shouldn't be hard for you to pick ONE example. You only need one to defeat the argument. It is far more arduous for me to go explain how 42 of them are essentially irrelevant to neutrals.

    The burden of proof is on you to prove the existence of a difference that satisfies the requirements I set at the beginning of this discussion.

    If I say something doesn't exist, the burden is on the person who asserts that it does to prove it.
    You made the statement, you have to back it up.

    The colour green doesn't exist, prove me wrong! Hint for anyone trying to prove this to me: I'll just say "that's not green" for every colour and piece of evidence you give me.

    See? It's a cowards approach to any argument, and you've shown it over and over by refusing to go through that list that you've been given multiple times.

    ---

    As for the Catholic/Protestant bit, you've moved those goalposts to much you can't even remember where they were in the first place. Let me refresh your memory...

    You said: You are not a mind reader. They [Muslims] say IS are wrong. You have no idea what they think.

    Nodin said: No, I'm not. You seem to be though.

    You said: You don't need to be able to read minds to understand the Koran, you just need to be able to read.

    Nodin said: If religion was that simple there would be no sects.

    You said: The sects don't disagree fundamentally on anything we would find important.

    Your justification that Muslims support IS is because they all have the same interpretation of the Koran and their religion. Your reasoning why they all have the same interpretation is because they have no differences that impact the west. So by extension, if Catholics and Protestants have no differences that would impact people outside of the Christian world, then they must all be the same too in Bible and religion.

    Unless you're just trying out your double standards again.


  • #7115
    jimgoose
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,205 ✭✭✭✭jimgoose


    Is there anything to be said for the idea of Navy SEAL types making Youtube videos of some of these people's parents in the Old-a Country being skinned alive while hanging upside-down by the ankles?


  • #7116
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    jimgoose wrote: »
    Is there anything to be said for the idea of Navy SEAL types making Youtube videos of some of these people's parents in the Old-a Country being skinned alive while hanging upside-down by the ankles?

    Thing is, nobody would like to see that more than the guys who recruit for IS.


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  • #7117
    jimgoose
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,205 ✭✭✭✭jimgoose


    Billy86 wrote: »
    Thing is, nobody would like to see that more than the guys who recruit for IS.

    Mmm. For a while, I suppose.


  • #7118
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    jimgoose wrote: »
    Mmm. For a while, I suppose.

    Nah, the longer it goes the bigger they (or their successor) get.


  • #7119
    jimgoose
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,205 ✭✭✭✭jimgoose


    Billy86 wrote: »
    Nah, the longer it goes the bigger they (or their successor) get.

    No, I don't think so. At this stage I'm starting to think some proper savagery might work wonders.


  • #7120
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    jimgoose wrote: »
    No, I don't think so. At this stage I'm starting to think some proper savagery might work wonders.
    Sure go grab yourself a gun then, and travle there to get going on these methods! They worked wonders for the Brits over here sure, after all!


  • #7121
    jimgoose
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,205 ✭✭✭✭jimgoose


    Billy86 wrote: »
    Sure go grab yourself a gun then, and travle there to get going on these methods! They worked wonders for the Brits over here sure, after all!

    The "Brits" were slaughtered over here and ended up deploying warships and Vickers machine-guns. Go over there yourself, and fill them with love and tolerance.


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  • #7122
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    jimgoose wrote: »
    The "Brits" were slaughtered over here and ended up deploying warships and Vickers machine-guns. Go over there yourself, and fill them with love and tolerance.
    Thanks for backing up my point, you can't kill an idea. I can make that point from where I am cheers. You just said like you wanted to see people's families skinned alive, I should have figured you didn't want to actually be the one doing it yourself, though.


  • #7123
    jimgoose
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,205 ✭✭✭✭jimgoose


    Billy86 wrote: »
    Thanks for backing up my point, you can't kill an idea. I can make that point from where I am cheers, you just said like you wanted to see people's families skinned alive. Should have figured you didn't want to actually be the one doing it yourself, though.

    And why would you necessarily "figure" that? And why can't you make that point over there, if I must?


  • #7124
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    jimgoose wrote: »
    And why would you necessarily "figure" that? And why can't you make that point over there, if I must?
    Because by saying 'go over there yourself' back at me, I figured you didn't want to. I mean you're big on talking about seeing the elderly skinned alive on youtube, but would you want to do it yourself or just see others get their hands dirty?


  • #7125
    jimgoose
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,205 ✭✭✭✭jimgoose


    Billy86 wrote: »
    Because by saying 'go over there yourself' back at me, I figured you didn't want to. I mean you're big on talking about seeing the elderly skinned alive on youtube, but would you want to do it yourself or just see others get their hands dirty?

    I have no interest whatsoever in seeing any such thing - I want certain other individuals to see it, though. And it wouldn't particularly bother me, no, if it scared the rats off the ship, as 'twere.


  • #7126
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    jimgoose wrote: »
    I have no interest whatsoever in seeing any such thing - I want certain other individuals to see it, though. And it wouldn't particularly bother me, no, if it scared the rats off the ship, as 'twere.
    That's the thing though, it only serves to radicalise more and more people - it's exactly what IS would love. Just look at Israel and Palestine, no matter what you do people will keep fighting back if you don't get them onside.


  • #7127
    jimgoose
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,205 ✭✭✭✭jimgoose


    Billy86 wrote: »
    That's the thing though, it only serves to radicalise more and more people - it's exactly what IS would love. Just look at Israel and Palestine, no matter what you do people will keep fighting back if you don't get them onside.

    IS certainly seem to "love" whatever it is we're supposed to be doing now. I just think it might be worth giving them something to get really "radicalised" about, and then seeing who sh1ts the bed first.


  • #7128
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    jimgoose wrote: »
    IS certainly seem to "love" whatever it is we're supposed to be doing now. I just think it might be worth giving them something to get really "radicalised" about, and then seeing who sh1ts the bed first.
    Well it would bring them plenty more members, so of course they would love it. It's pretty straight forward stuff.


  • #7129
    Boom_Bap
    Moderators, Music Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,740 Mod ✭✭✭✭Boom_Bap


    Lads, get this back to Paris please. It's gone way off radar.


  • #7130
    sryanbruen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,170 ✭✭✭✭sryanbruen


    Boom_Bap wrote: »
    Lads, get this back to Paris please. It's gone way off radar.

    What about the shootings in Brussels?

    Photography site - https://sryanbruenphoto.com/



  • #7131
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    sryanbruen wrote: »
    What about the shootings in Brussels?


    Here ye go.
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057575599


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  • #7132
    stoplooklisten
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,492 ✭✭✭stoplooklisten


    sryanbruen wrote: »
    What about the shootings in Brussels?

    The other thread is for Brussels, no connection between the two, no sireee


  • #7133
    Mesrine65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,949 ✭✭✭Mesrine65


    In order to fight terrorism one must employ terrorist tactics IMHO

    Many would argue that such tactics exacerbate rather than counter the terrorist threat...

    Military action can disrupt a terrorist group's operations temporarily, but it doesn't end the threat completely.

    Repression by the military in itself usually leads to short term victories, but tend to be unsuccessful in the long run (look at France's record with Indo-China & Algeria).

    Given the nature of operational counter-terrorism tasks, national military organizations don't generally have dedicated units whose sole responsibility is the prosecution of these tasks.

    Instead the counter-terrorism function is an element of the role of the military, allowing flexibility in their employment, with operations being undertaken in the domestic or international context.

    Small, specialized tactical units dedicated to the prevention of politically motivated violence through the use of modern techniques, covert actions & targeted killings need to be permitted as an extreme form of self-defense.

    The Australian Anti-Terrorism Act of 2005 included a "shoot-to-kill" clause, in 2006 the Israeli Supreme Court ruled "targeted killings were a permitted form of self-defense", although measures like these are controversial & have been criticized by civil libertarians/Islamic groups.

    Fighting fire with fire, all be it covert, seems to be the only way to defeating terrorism IMHO, maybe once enough damage has been done, the negotiation table will seem a little more inviting.


  • #7134
    wes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,749 ✭✭✭✭wes


    Mesrine65 wrote: »
    In order to beat terrorism one must employ terrorist tactics IMHO

    If you employ terrorist tactics yourself, you have not defeated terrorism, but rather increased it, and are now a terrorist yourself.


  • #7135
    Mesrine65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,949 ✭✭✭Mesrine65


    wes wrote: »
    If you employ terrorist tactics yourself, you have not defeated terrorism, but rather increased it, and are now a terrorist yourself.
    So be it...


  • #7136
    wes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,749 ✭✭✭✭wes


    Mesrine65 wrote: »
    So be it...

    Then, you end up being no better than the other guy, and someone should probably stop your sides terror campaign as well, seeing your side are now terrorists and all.

    I wonder if Al Qaeda and member of other terrorist groups, employ similar logic to defend there own blood thirsty atrocities? I think Anders Breivik taught along the same lines.......


  • #7137
    Mesrine65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,949 ✭✭✭Mesrine65


    wes wrote: »
    Then, you end up being no better than the other guy, and someone should probably stop your sides terror campaign as well, seeing your side are now terrorists and all.

    I wonder if Al Qaeda and member of other terrorist groups, employ similar logic to defend there own blood thirsty atrocities? I think Anders Breivik taught along the same lines.......
    The objective is to eliminate the enemy & prevent his resurgance, this cannot be achieved in a Geneva Convention, sanitized type of warfare unfortunately.

    Dirty tactics & unconventional covert warfare carried out by small tactical groups is the only way to achieve this goal.


  • #7138
    wes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,749 ✭✭✭✭wes


    Mesrine65 wrote: »
    The objective is to eliminate the enemy & prevent his resurgance, this cannot be achieved in a Geneva Convention, sanitized type of warfare unfortunately.

    Dirty tactics & unconventional covert warfare carried out by small tactical groups is the only way to achieve this goal.

    You mean like what has been going on for years? Extra-judical killings, torture, drone strikes, mass surveillance, human rights violations and extraordinary rendition etc have been going on for years and years now. The tactics of the War on Terror, have completely and utterly failed, and have in fact directly lead to the creation of the group currently attacking Europe, ISIS (literally created and lead by former Saddam Hussein Intelligence officers).

    Repeating the same failed tactics over and over again, even after they have made things worse, is the height of insanity imho.


  • #7139
    Mesrine65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,949 ✭✭✭Mesrine65


    wes wrote: »
    You mean like what has been going on for years? Extra-judical killings, torture, drone strikes, mass surveillance, human rights violations and extraordinary rendition etc have been going on for years and years now. The tactics of the War on Terror, have completely and utterly failed, and have in fact directly lead to the creation of the group currently attacking Europe, ISIS (literally created and lead by former Saddam Hussein Intelligence officers).

    Repeating the same failed tactics over and over again, even after they have made things worse, is the height of insanity imho.
    & I respect your opinion Wes, but what is the answer to defeating terrorism in your opinion?

    Maybe I spent to long in the military & it clouds my judgement, we were subject to ridiculous ROE in Rwanda where we couldn't fire unless fired upon & as a result, we had to watch while innocents were butchered with machetes...our hands were tied by military convention/law.

    One starts to ask oneself...WTF am I here for then? :confused:


  • #7140
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    Mesrine65 wrote: »
    The objective is to eliminate the enemy & prevent his resurgance, this cannot be achieved in a Geneva Convention, sanitized type of warfare unfortunately.

    Dirty tactics & unconventional covert warfare carried out by small tactical groups is the only way to achieve this goal.

    How do you kill an idea?


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  • #7141
    jimgoose
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,205 ✭✭✭✭jimgoose


    Billy86 wrote: »
    How do you kill an idea?

    There's no need to kill the idea. All you have to do is kill everyone who has that idea and is inclined to act on it. :D


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