Teenagers and driving...

CaraMay · 19-03-2016 11:07PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Suicide is possible...but did he actually rule out speed, drink, tiredness, simple error and so on? Surely there is a huge spectrum and very much depends on individual circumstance?

I think it mainly depends on the absence or presence of skid marks at the accident.

pablo128 · 19-03-2016 11:09PM

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

is it toned down for a reason? any near misses or close shaves or have you just adjusted as you have got older?

I was your stereotypical mad young driver. I used to drive the sh1te out of cars. I've had a few accidents, 2 of them serious head ons, one very serious. Lamp posts both times. I'm genuinely lucky to be still here. The seatbelts saved me both times. No airbags in most cars back then.(Or at least in the class of car I would drive then.)

Now I took it to extremes, but the point I'm trying to make is I had to learn from my mistakes. Off topic, but the biggest lesson I learned was never put cheap chinese ditchfinders on your car. They definitely contributed to one of my crashes.

circadian · 19-03-2016 11:16PM

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

Stupidly I suppose, but more times than not, I personally would think that a bunch of teenagers or under 25s that were out at that time of the morning and had crashed either had drink on them or were mucking about, or speeding and lost control of car, couldn't correct it and crashed it. I dunno maybe I shouldn't be thinking like that. Enough about me, what do others think?

If the drink is on you, then you're doing it wrong.

Andy From Sligo · 19-03-2016 11:25PM

when you go out in the morning and see round tyre marks on major junctions on the road or car parks you know that basically the young drivers have the run of the roads and it seems they are a law onto themselves and can do what they like in the middle of the night with no consequences whatsoever - I suppose if they are allowed to get away with it , I suppose they are going to carry on with it, because there is no chance of them being caught by the authorities (Garda/Traffic corps) or nipped in the bud. If their cars were seized and scrapped or they were taken off the roads when they do something like this it would soon stop - and I suppose when they are allowed to do this on a regular basis without being caught or facing consequences then I suppose they are just looking for the next adrenaline fix ... and so it carries on, taking more chances, until they end up nearly killing themselves and others ... and sometimes end up completing their missions.

19-03-2016 11:33PM

CaraMay wrote: »

I think it mainly depends on the absence or presence of skid marks at the accident.

When you said...

CaraMay wrote: »

I would assume a single car incident with no drink is suicide

Perhaps you should have clarified that you just meant single car accidents with no skid marks.

And even still, I would imagine there is huge room for considering that it wasn't suicide?

freshpopcorn · 20-03-2016 12:04AM

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

when you go out in the morning and see round tyre marks on major junctions on the road or car parks you know that basically the young drivers have the run of the roads and it seems they are a law onto themselves and can do what they like in the middle of the night with no consequences whatsoever - I suppose if they are allowed to get away with it , I suppose they are going to carry on with it, because there is no chance of them being caught by the authorities (Garda/Traffic corps) or nipped in the bud. If their cars were seized and scrapped or they were taken off the roads when they do something like this it would soon stop - and I suppose when they are allowed to do this on a regular basis without being caught or facing consequences then I suppose they are just looking for the next adrenaline fix ... and so it carries on, taking more chances, until they end up nearly killing themselves and others ... and sometimes end up completing their missions.

I can just speak from personal experience and the young people I've know who've being involved in fatal accidents weren't the guys doing handbrake turns and donuts.
They were drivers who never did anything dangerous on purpose and they crashed mainly to to lack of experience or distractions.

elstingeo · 20-03-2016 12:15AM

What's the point in thinking so deep about this? Two young lads have lost their lives. That means two mothers, father's, sisters and brothers won't be able to hug them tonight and before bed. Trying to understand the reasoning behind the tragedy is just silly curiosity, unless you have an idea of their style of driving or whatever then you may never know as anything else is gossip and hearsay.

I agree that a lot of younger drivers are in a high risk category etc but be aware that you may never find out the reason behind the crash unless more details are released. Rip and stay safe is all I can say..

the_syco · 20-03-2016 12:33AM

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Some of the "single vehicle accidents" are not accidents at all if you know what I mean

Straight road, single car, hits tree. It's usually marked as accident, to soften the blow on the family. If it were marked as suicide, I'd say suicide rates for rural counties would be a lot higher.

It'd also mean more funding to prevent suicide in those areas, but no numbers mean no money.

cowboyBuilder · 20-03-2016 12:44AM

Yep , I'm always suspicious when its a single vehicle collision, on a straight road, at 4AM ...

fatknacker · 20-03-2016 02:11AM

Valetta wrote: »

Why?

I think you're being very judgmental there, and very insensitive to the families of those you refer to.

Not a nice post, and most certainly not a nice trait to have.

What an odd thing to say.
Nothing wrong with assuming suicide. It's not shameful.

timthumbni · 20-03-2016 02:26AM

In Northern Ireland they are talking about bringing in a law that would prevent young drivers from having any more than one passenger in their car after 11pm.

I agree with this as young fellas in pArticular are a menace on the roads at night. I was bad myself and am thankful I didn't kill myself or others on the road.

Hate seeing road deaths reported on the tv. The vast majority are to do with speed and stupidity. Horrible.

TG1 · 20-03-2016 06:21AM

timthumbni wrote: »

In Northern Ireland they are talking about bringing in a law that would prevent young drivers from having any more than one passenger in their car after 11pm.

I agree with this as young fellas in pArticular are a menace on the roads at night. I was bad myself and am thankful I didn't kill myself or others on the road.

Hate seeing road deaths reported on the tv. The vast majority are to do with speed and stupidity. Horrible.

I spent a short time working with horses in donegal and I have to say I have never been so afraid to take a horse on the roads as I was up there, even in the middle of the day you got done up cars full of young lads tearing up and down the roads... I don't mean to generalise bit it was much more visible up there than it was in other counties I've worked in.

I can't understand the posters saying age isn't a factor. I really think age is the biggest factor at play in these things, it's not lack of experience or being a bad driver though, its just that young people don't realise how fragile life is, the thought that it could be over in one split second of bad judgement just doesn't occur to them.

timthumbni · 20-03-2016 06:34AM

TG1 wrote: »

I spent a short time working with horses in donegal and I have to say I have never been so afraid to take a horse on the roads as I was up there, even in the middle of the day you got done up cars full of young lads tearing up and down the roads... I don't mean to generalise bit it was much more visible up there than it was in other counties I've worked in.

I can't understand the posters saying age isn't a factor. I really think age is the biggest factor at play in these things, it's not lack of experience or being a bad driver though, its just that young people don't realise how fragile life is, the thought that it could be over in one split second of bad judgement just doesn't occur to them.

When I was a young cub I drove like a complete dick. I was a danger to myself and worse I was a danger to other innocent drivers. I thought I was aryton Senna when in reality I couldn't hv drove my finger up my arse..

Your point about not realising how fragile life is very good. I thought I was invincible when I was that age. Thank the Lord (and I'm an atheist) that I didn't kill myself or worse someone else.

Andy From Sligo · 20-03-2016 12:41PM

But don't the gards, traffic corps , rsa and other authorities realise (and they must do) that if you get these ones tearing here and there in the daytime with their souped up cars with no respect for other road users or themselves, hip it on the bud get them and their cars off the road then in the long run somewhere down the line they could potentially save somebody's life/lives be it the drivers themselves or some other innocent sods life. Why are they let to break the law tearing around with (sometimes) illegally modded vehicles, at illegal speeds, illegal dangerous driving when other drivers have to stick to the law at all times or face the penalties? Are they some kind of protected species? Are the authorities letting them get away with it so that they can get them one day on a higher charge that can stick in court? I just don't get it there is not a complete across the board penalties for all drivers on the road . You are alright to scream about in villages and towns acting like a Muppet driving dangerously and putting lives at risk, but because your young or a teenager or under the age of 25 your ok to do that.... or you can be older and have a lapse tax or not or drive a little over the white line, have a headlight out, stop on yellow box in the road, do 32mph in a 30mph speed limit and have the full penalties of the road acts thrown at you.

KERSPLAT! · 20-03-2016 12:48PM

Your whole post makes zero sense. Who lets them do all these things!?

If the guards catch someone speeding I assume they treat them the same and don't let them away with anything because of their age or car. To be honest I'd think that they would act even more harsh toward done up cars and boy racers.

You're posting a lot in this thread but making no sense from what I can see

pablo128 · 20-03-2016 01:29PM

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

But don't the gards, traffic corps , rsa and other authorities realise (and they must do) that if you get these ones tearing here and there in the daytime with their souped up cars with no respect for other road users or themselves, hip it on the bud get them and their cars off the road then in the long run somewhere down the line they could potentially save somebody's life/lives be it the drivers themselves or some other innocent sods life. Why are they let to break the law tearing around with (sometimes) illegally modded vehicles, at illegal speeds, illegal dangerous driving when other drivers have to stick to the law at all times or face the penalties? Are they some kind of protected species? Are the authorities letting them get away with it so that they can get them one day on a higher charge that can stick in court? I just don't get it there is not a complete across the board penalties for all drivers on the road . You are alright to scream about in villages and towns acting like a Muppet driving dangerously and putting lives at risk, but because your young or a teenager or under the age of 25 your ok to do that.... or you can be older and have a lapse tax or not or drive a little over the white line, have a headlight out, stop on yellow box in the road, do 32mph in a 30mph speed limit and have the full penalties of the road acts thrown at you.

I understand where you're coming from to an extent, though I think there's a hint of faux outrage. But look, we both know what the problem is. A lack of visible policing. I can't remember the last time I was stopped at a checkpoint, or breathalysed, or dipped for diesel. And I live in a busy area of Dublin. If I can drive unchecked and unhindered, a young lad in the back arse of Ballywherever stands little to no chance of being nabbed acting the boll1x.

SeanW · 20-03-2016 01:39PM

So much Orwellian, fascist and communist impotent rage in just a few posts, what have we stumbled into?

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Accident implies there is no one to blame or at fault.

Only if you have a poor command of the English language. http://www.dictionary.com/browse/accident?s=t
In the vast majority of contexts, the word "Accident" makes no reference whatsoever to fault or blame as this definition shows:

an undesirable or unfortunate happening that occurs unintentionally and usually results in harm, injury, damage, or loss; casualty; mishap:

and is synonymous with: mischance, misfortune, misadventure; contingency; disaster.

Your redefinition of "accident" sounds like an exercise in Newspeak. Perhaps I should report to the local re-education camp for ungoodthinkful thoughtcrime

The term accident is totally neutral, factual reference to an event. To be an accident, an event must only have had negative consequences and been un-intentional. Full stop.

lawlolawl wrote: »

Any time i've encountered someone deliberately acting the bollix on the road it has been a young lad/wan.

Gardai should be able to seize their cars and their license should be suspended

Already covered by dangerous driving legislation.

Also, ban modified cars from use on public because no one needs them to drive on public roads.

Seriously? "X is a self-indulgent luxury, it 'isn't needed' so lets ban it" I remember that line from the former Soviet Union. Ever watched Dr. Zhivago?

Seriously, what difference does it make if someone alters their car with alloys or similar visual enhancements, additional audio system equipment or engine tuning? I imagine any sane person would drive with greater, not lesser care after expending limited resources on such alterations. Even yobbish teenagers.

The road fatalities figure is so high because we have such a lax attitude to people being utter idiots on the road.

Road deaths have plummetted since the 1970s because of a trifecta of better cars, better roads including motorways and finally a much less tolerant attitude towards drink driving. I am convinced that a lot of the road deaths that remain are vehicular suicides - thus the real death toll from road accidents is considerably lower than the published statistics.

As to the subject of this thread, yes some kinds of yobbish behaviour are dangerous, but the facts clearly show that driving after 10 pints (as was routine in the '70s) is much more dangerous than doing donuts in a Tesco car park after midnight. Or speeding, or driving without an NCT or a number of other things. It's not even in the same ballpark.

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

Good idea, and a simple one as well. Can't see why it hasn't already been implemented. The only wans crying 'big brother society" will be the ones with something to hide!

Joseph Stalin, Goebbels etc broadly agree with this. As did some of the authority figures in George Orwells warning books like 1984.

"Those who fail to understand history ..."

Andy From Sligo · 20-03-2016 01:47PM

KERSPLAT! wrote: »

Your whole post makes zero sense. Who lets them do all these things!?

If the guards catch someone speeding I assume they treat them the same and don't let them away with anything because of their age or car. To be honest I'd think that they would act even more harsh toward done up cars and boy racers.

You're posting a lot in this thread but making no sense from what I can see

i can see what you mean ... but why are they not being caught and dealt with? - when we see road traffic offences in the paper and on the Internet why does it seem the older drivers convicted for offences of speeding, drink driving, driving dangerously - but we know that a lot of offences must be being caused every day on the roads by younger drivers? - I dunno why or know the reason why they are not being caught, its just my observation is all.

freshpopcorn · 20-03-2016 01:55PM

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

i can see what you mean ... but why are they not being caught and dealt with? - when we see road traffic offences in the paper and on the Internet why does it seem the older drivers convicted for offences of speeding, drink driving, driving dangerously - but we know that a lot of offences must be being caused every day on the roads by younger drivers? - I dunno why or know the reason why they are not being caught, its just my observation is all.

In my experience older people are far more likely to drink and drive than younger people.
The only people I know who'd being convicted of speeding in court are older people because they appealed it trying to get off and that's why there names were in the paper and talked about locally. I know plenty of young people who've got caught for speeding and they generally just accepted the points.
As for dangerous driving it's pretty mixed to be honest generally people gets charged with careless driving which wouldn't be considered as serious.

Andy From Sligo · 20-03-2016 01:57PM

I think people dying in road fatalities dont get the same shock factor and outrage these days as they used to get, and that might be part of the problem. I dont know if we hear of it so often that we are getting numb to it. But you will hear people say "Did you hear about the crash the other day, and they all lost their lives god bless em" ... "oh, did you get back onto Mary about that thing i wanted done by the way?" - just slipped into sentences almost giving the indication that its no big deal now and that people drive too fast like maniacs these days and sure its bound to happen, par for the course ...

Valetta · 20-03-2016 02:05PM

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

i can see what you mean ... but why are they not being caught and dealt with? - when we see road traffic offences in the paper and on the Internet why does it seem the older drivers convicted for offences of speeding, drink driving, driving dangerously - but we know that a lot of offences must be being caused every day on the roads by younger drivers? - I dunno why or know the reason why they are not being caught, its just my observation is all.

They are being caught. Just not all of them.

Go down to the courts any day of the week, and you will see dozens of young drivers up on all sorts of different charges.

freshpopcorn · 20-03-2016 02:14PM

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

I think people dying in road fatalities dont get the same shock factor and outrage these days as they used to get, and that might be part of the problem. I dont know if we hear of it so often that we are getting numb to it. But you will hear people say "Did you hear about the crash the other day, and they all lost their lives god bless em" ... "oh, did you get back onto Mary about that thing i wanted done by the way?" - just slipped into sentences almost giving the indication that its no big deal now and that people drive too fast like maniacs these days and sure its bound to happen, par for the course ...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_road_traffic_accidents_deaths_in_Republic_of_Ireland_by_year

I don't know was the shock factor there thirty or forty years ago either.
If I discuss this issue with my mother in her mid fifties she'd freely admit that when she was young people used be lethal and drive very fast.
If I discuss the same issue with my father in his sixties he'd let you to believe nobody died in road accidents when he was young and everybody drove around at five miles per hour.

20-03-2016 02:26PM

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

But don't the gards, traffic corps , rsa and other authorities realise (and they must do) that if you get these ones tearing here and there in the daytime with their souped up cars

Why are you picking on "souped up" (a phrase that's is meaningless) cars. You want to stop people who are interested in cars from modifying them etc, why? They are just an easy target for people on the anti-Young driver band wagon.

Take note that it's almost always normal cars you see involved in accidents, very very rarely do you see a modified car on the news when an accident is being reported, they are a total red herring.

There is no doubt that young peope act the maggot on the road and do dangers things but the type of car they are driving makes no difference.

scamalert · 20-03-2016 02:26PM

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

I think people dying in road fatalities dont get the same shock factor and outrage these days as they used to get, and that might be part of the problem. I dont know if we hear of it so often that we are getting numb to it. But you will hear people say "Did you hear about the crash the other day, and they all lost their lives god bless em" ... "oh, did you get back onto Mary about that thing i wanted done by the way?" - just slipped into sentences almost giving the indication that its no big deal now and that people drive too fast like maniacs these days and sure its bound to happen, par for the course ...

you speak a lot of trash really,what do you expect people to cry over every time theres a crash,do you worry about every news like that ? starving kids in africa-youd imagine people would be all over the place about it,what about china where ppl kills themselves to make your iphones.

Irish law system applies same to everyone,be it some farmer driving drunk from his local and ending up stopped or in a ditch or some young numb nuts doing doughnuts at 4pm and stopped by the guards or crashing themselves up.Its all down to mentality and being stupid no matter what age one is.

Theres already insane hikes in insurance costs for any young driver to fork out 2-3k,and you speak of modded cars when that crap is usually fart box fitted onto 1.4l car-also good point from Kasen Greasy Pension- youd be rare to see some evo 9 or something that has well over 200bph crashed,also according to your beliefs everyone are saints,yet any car can do well over 100mp/h and dont imagine people fork out cash to get v6 v8 or 3l cars to drive on motorway doing 120.

So to answer your question no one gets any shock factor its another tragedy for someone along another 100s that happen every day.

Galwayguy35 · 20-03-2016 02:38PM

Miya Ambitious Tablet wrote: »

Why are you picking on "souped up" (a phrase that's is meaningless) cars. You want to stop people who are interested in cars from modifying them etc, why? They are just an easy target for people on the anti-Young driver band wagon.

Take note that it's almost always normal cars you see involved in accidents, very very rarely do you see a modified car on the news when an accident is being reported, they are a total red herring.

There is no doubt that young peope act the maggot on the road and do dangers things but the type of car they are driving makes no difference.

Bit OT but it's not easy trying to get to sleep when some little sh1thead is tearing up and down the road with a noisy exhaust in a modified car that can be heard a mile away.

And next day the roads black from doing donoughts.

scamalert · 20-03-2016 04:16PM

seems term modified for some = performance
putting rocket launcher exhaust and removing back box,coupe type r stickers,and suspension to plow snow with added K&N air filter on some 1.4 should be called degradation,since it adds no performance in what would be considered car being modified.

Andy From Sligo · 20-03-2016 04:17PM

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Bit OT but it's not easy trying to get to sleep when some little sh1thead is tearing up and down the road with a noisy exhaust in a modified car that can be heard a mile away.

And next day the roads black from doing donoughts.

Is there any merit when I say that (and I havent read the rules on the road of this) that there must be a law on how noisy an exhaust can sound in decibels on a car. So if half my exhaust/silencers were hanging off and it was really loud near enough the decibels of a big bore exhaust of a modded car (better not say souped up car, might get into trouble :eek: ) - who would be likely to get pulled over by the gards for it and done.

Andy From Sligo · 20-03-2016 04:22PM

scamalert wrote: »

seems term modified for some = performance
putting rocket launcher exhaust and removing back box,coupe type r stickers,and suspension to plow snow with added K&N air filter on some 1.4 should be called degradation,since it adds no performance in what would be considered car being modified.

Makes me laugh some of these ones with underpowered modded cars with big bore exhausts and the boy racers (will say boy because i dont see that many girl racers) absolutely floor their accelerator to the floor to get anywhere - causing even more noise from their exhausts but when you look up and see what all the noise is about theres like this fab looking car with all skirts and lowered springs and its not even going that fast lol

Andy From Sligo · 20-03-2016 04:36PM

are there are still instances that if your caught speeding by a Garda ... but you know a Gard or someone down the station that 'will get you off' - does that carry on still go on today? - I know it used to go on not so long ago especially in rural areas , does it still go on these days?

freshpopcorn · 20-03-2016 04:46PM

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

are there are still instances that if your caught speeding by a Garda ... but you know a Gard or someone down the station that 'will get you off' - does that carry on still go on today? - I know it used to go on not so long ago especially in rural areas , does it still go on these days?

I've only ever heard of this happening with older people being caught drink driving.

Teenagers and driving...

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