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Shootings in Paris - MOD NOTE UPDATED - READ OP

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Comments

  • #6992
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    Calm down Warren Beatty. I have no problem with Muslims being "normal", I've met plenty of them. But according to doctrine, Muslim women should not date non Muslim men. That's all I'm saying.

    True, but when you think about the fact that catholics should only have sex (a) when married and (b) in a manner that can lead to reproductionyou can see that theres catholics and theres Catholics. I'd be surprised if she married him without him converting though, even if its just nominally.


  • #6993
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    Calm down Warren Beatty. I have no problem with Muslims being "normal", I've met plenty of them. But according to doctrine, Muslim women should not date non Muslim men. That's all I'm saying.

    By that logic, the same is true for Christian women, and Christian men, with non Christians. And Christians cannot remarry.

    Likewise, people who consider themselves Christian can also not be Christian if they...

    - Masturbate
    - Watch porn
    - Look at a woman with any form of lust
    - Braid their hair (don't worry, this counts for women only!)
    - Wear gold or pearl jewellery (yep, this is women only too!)
    - Wear expensive clothing (you guessed it... just the women)
    - Ever speak in church (goes without saying this only applies to the women folk!)

    ...to name a few. If we continue down this line of logic for everything said in the Bible and the Quran, there are likely very, very, very, very few Christians or Muslims in the world.


  • #6994
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,801 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    Billy86 wrote: »
    By that logic, the same is true for Christian women, and Christian men, with non Christians. And Christians cannot remarry.

    Likewise, people who consider themselves Christian can also not be Christian if they...

    - Masturbate
    - Watch porn
    - Look at a woman with any form of lust
    - Braid their hair (don't worry, this counts for women only!)
    - Wear gold or pearl jewellery (yep, this is women only too!)
    - Wear expensive clothing (you guessed it... just the women)
    - Ever speak in church (goes without saying this only applies to the women folk!)

    ...to name a few. If we continue down this line of logic for everything said in the Bible and the Quran, there are likely very, very, very, very few Christians or Muslims in the world.

    We can agree that all the creation myths are equally hysterical. And Christianity has overseen many an autrocity. Problem is, RIGHT NOW, a certain literal reading of Islam is giving carte blanche to a fair amount of fanatical muslims to attack non muslims and especially the wrong type of muslims. If Islam started in around the year 500, then in chronological terms, Islam is now approximately where Christianity was in around 1500 - a period of upheaval market by extreme violence. Islam needs to mellow. When I say Islam, I am not talking about Joe soap muslim next door, I'm talking about the fireyness of the doctrine.


  • #6995
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    We can agree that all the creation myths are equally hysterical. And Christianity has overseen many an autrocity. Problem is, RIGHT NOW, a certain literal reading of Islam is giving carte blanche to a fair amount of fanatical muslims to attack non muslims and especially the wrong type of muslims. If Islam started in around the year 500, then in chronological terms, Islam is now approximately where Christianity was in around 1500 - a period of upheaval market by extreme violence. Islam needs to mellow. When I say Islam, I am not talking about Joe soap muslim next door, I'm talking about the fireyness of the doctrine.
    I fully agree that religions, while they may have served a purpose before science could explain much of anything, are dated and silly. They do serve a good purpose in helping reform addicts, alcoholics, people with mis-spent youths etc, but if they magically disappeared and were forgotten about tomorrow morning the world would probably be a better place for it..

    The problem with your timeline theory is that it is not a 'one size fits all' progression, and many of the issues would still be there under a different guise in the event of religions magically ceasing to exist tomorrow. This is to do with a number of issues, some internal (dictators, human rights, etc) and some external (Western meddling, installing dictators, human rights, etc).

    Also, it is easy to say that Christianity is sitll going through a period of extreme violence, only we don't see it as much because the western (surprise, surprise, traditionally Christian) media decides to rarely, if ever, report on it. Most people reading this thread have probably never even heard of the Lords Resistance Army.


  • #6996
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,801 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    Youre almost proving my point. Look at the difference in scale. Lords Resistance Army (wiki says has a strength of 3,000) vs ISIS, Al Qaeda, Boko Haram, Taliban, Hezbollah etc etc. Christianity's period of popular violence is over. Islam's is not.


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  • #6997
    Snake Plisken
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,218 ✭✭✭✭Snake Plisken


    Billy86 wrote: »
    I fully agree that religions, while they may have served a purpose before science could explain much of anything, are dated and silly. They do serve a good purpose in helping reform addicts, alcoholics, people with mis-spent youths etc, but if they magically disappeared and were forgotten about tomorrow morning the world would probably be a better place for it..

    The problem with your timeline theory is that it is not a 'one size fits all' progression, and many of the issues would still be there under a different guise in the event of religions magically ceasing to exist tomorrow. This is to do with a number of issues, some internal (dictators, human rights, etc) and some external (Western meddling, installing dictators, human rights, etc).

    Also, it is easy to say that Christianity is sitll going through a period of extreme violence, only we don't see it as much because the western (surprise, surprise, traditionally Christian) media decides to rarely, if ever, report on it. Most people reading this thread have probably never even heard of the Lords Resistance Army.

    The usual rhetoric of a Muslim apologist, blame Christianity!


  • #6998
    JPNelsforearm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,147 ✭✭✭JPNelsforearm


    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cd6etfTW8AAbq3M.jpg


  • #6999
    questionmark?
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,085 ✭✭✭questionmark?


    Billy86 wrote: »
    Most people reading this thread have probably never even heard of the Lords Resistance Army.

    How many suicide bombings, mass shootings of innocent people across the globe and downing of airliners have the Lords Resistance Army done in the last 18 months?


  • #7000
    stoplooklisten
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,492 ✭✭✭stoplooklisten


    Billy86 wrote: »
    ... Most people reading this thread have probably never even heard of the Lords Resistance Army.

    Kongy 2010, Never Forget


  • #7001
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    questionmark? wrote: »
    How many suicide bombings, mass shootings of innocent people across the globe and downing of airliners have the Lords Resistance Army done in the last 18 months?

    How many of the 100,000+ that they have killed and 600,000+ that they have maimed and/or displaced, have you heard of being victims of Christian terrorism?


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  • #7002
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    Snake Plisken wrote: »
    The usual rhetoric of a Muslim apologist, blame Christianity!

    There's the usual rhetoric of a hypocrite and a bigot, ignore all the bad "your" people do but be sure to vilify "the other" for the same thing. Gotta make sure to dehumanise and differentiate that "other" at every opportunity, you know!

    Mod: Banned


  • #7003
    questionmark?
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,085 ✭✭✭questionmark?


    Billy86 wrote: »
    How many of the 100,000+ that they have killed and 600,000+ that they have maimed and/or displaced, have you heard of being victims of Christian terrorism?

    Evidence please if you mean Christian terrorism has killed those numbers.


  • #7004
    Jim Bob Scratcher
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,231 ✭✭✭Jim Bob Scratcher


    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/salah-abdeslam-who-is-the-gay-isis-fighter-who-fled-the-paris-attacks-in-november-a6939476.html

    I would have never thought he was gay.


  • #7005
    stoplooklisten
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,492 ✭✭✭stoplooklisten


    Jim Bob Scratcher wrote: »
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/salah-abdeslam-who-is-the-gay-isis-fighter-who-fled-the-paris-attacks-in-november-a6939476.html

    I would have never thought he was gay.

    Interesting twist in the tale alright

    The bartender of the club, told the Sunday Times: "We had him down as a rent boy, he was always hanging out with that kind of crowd".


  • #7006
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    Jim Bob Scratcher wrote: »
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/salah-abdeslam-who-is-the-gay-isis-fighter-who-fled-the-paris-attacks-in-november-a6939476.html

    I would have never thought he was gay.

    Cheers for that, I'm sure the same lads on here claiming a Muslim cannot go out with a non Muslim will be relieved to know that the Paris attacks were not Muslim!


  • #7007
    JPNelsforearm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,147 ✭✭✭JPNelsforearm


    They'll become more Belgian than the Belgians themselves!! Diversity is good, multiculturalism is desirable!!

    http://nos.nl/artikel/2093793-in-molenbeek-wist-iedereen-waar-abdeslam-was.html

    "126 days knew terror suspect Salah Abdeslam to stay out of sight. Not to leave for Syria or hiding in Morocco or Iraq, but to lead his life in the neighborhood where he grew up. The 26 year old was arrested yesterday Abdeslam within walking distance of his home.

    ......everyone knew in the Brussels municipality which was the most wanted man in Europe in the area. "Here in the district has always everybody knew that Salah was still here," says a woman journalist Douglas De Coninck. He was with friends the last few weeks have even walked on the street. "A month ago they still pass walk the police station just for fun.""

    "Extremists as he could and can function only because they are protected by a large network," he said this morning news show of AVROTROS. "First live there a lot of people who feel sympathy for Islamic extremism and secondly the Moroccan community always protects its own members."

    Within the community there is Omerta says Feet, referring to the code within the mafia members, but also outsiders, forbids to blow the whistle on what they see. "It amazes me in that nothing that this man could find cover as long.""


  • #7008
    JimmySnails
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 171 ✭✭JimmySnails


    Billy86 wrote: »
    Christianity is the reason why Christian extremism exists. It's their motivator. The true face of Christianity is extremism.

    I wouldn't want any Christian nuts moving here either. Anyway, can you define an extremist? Would you consider someone who wanted their country to be governed by a version of Sharia law to be an extremist? Someone who supports death for adultery and apostasy?


  • #7009
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    JimmySnails wrote: »
    I wouldn't want any Christian nuts moving here either. Anyway, can you define an extremist? Would you consider someone who wanted their country to be governed by a version of Sharia law to be an extremist? Someone who supports death for adultery and apostasy?

    Generally it would be someone who is willing to take up arms on an issue rather than discussing it, when challenged.


  • #7010
    JimmySnails
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 171 ✭✭JimmySnails


    Billy86 wrote: »
    Generally it would be someone who is willing to take up arms on an issue rather than discussing it, when challenged.

    Not really.
    a person who holds extreme political or religious views, especially one who advocates illegal, violent, or other extreme action.

    So someone who wants their country ruled by a version of Sharia law and who believes in death for adultery and apostasy is an extremist. Do you disagree with this?


  • #7011
    questionmark?
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,085 ✭✭✭questionmark?


    JPNelsforearm wrote: »
    They'll become more Belgian than the Belgians themselves!! Diversity is good, multiculturalism is desirable!!

    http://nos.nl/artikel/2093793-in-molenbeek-wist-iedereen-waar-abdeslam-was.html

    "126 days knew terror suspect Salah Abdeslam to stay out of sight. Not to leave for Syria or hiding in Morocco or Iraq, but to lead his life in the neighborhood where he grew up. The 26 year old was arrested yesterday Abdeslam within walking distance of his home.

    ......everyone knew in the Brussels municipality which was the most wanted man in Europe in the area. "Here in the district has always everybody knew that Salah was still here," says a woman journalist Douglas De Coninck. He was with friends the last few weeks have even walked on the street. "A month ago they still pass walk the police station just for fun.""

    "Extremists as he could and can function only because they are protected by a large network," he said this morning news show of AVROTROS. "First live there a lot of people who feel sympathy for Islamic extremism and secondly the Moroccan community always protects its own members."

    Within the community there is Omerta says Feet, referring to the code within the mafia members, but also outsiders, forbids to blow the whistle on what they see. "It amazes me in that nothing that this man could find cover as long.""

    Sounds like a 'community' that lives in Belgium that has no moral right to do so. If they identify as Moroccan rather than moroccan/Belgium and hide Europe's most wanted man from the local police force they have no right to live there. Oh wait, that's racism some will shout. I like travelling, and I do a fair bit of it, but the rule of when in Rome do as the Romans do applies anything else and you should feck off.


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  • #7012
    JimmySnails
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 171 ✭✭JimmySnails


    questionmark? wrote: »
    Sounds like a 'community' that lives in Belgium that has no moral right to do so. If they identify as Moroccan rather than moroccan/Belgium and hide Europe's most wanted man from the local police force they have no right to live there. Oh wait, that's racism some will shout. I like travelling, and I do a fair bit of it, but the rule of when in Rome do as the Romans do applies anything else and you should feck off.

    The Belgians and French oppressed them by giving them social housing, free healthcare, free education, language classes, an opportunity to earn multiples of what they would in their own utopias and welfare.


  • #7013
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    JimmySnails wrote: »
    Not really.



    So someone who wants their country ruled by a version of Sharia law and who believes in death for adultery and apostasy is an extremist. Do you disagree with this?

    Why do I get the funny feeling you're leading into a flawed poll...

    By the way, by that definition we've already got plenty of extremists and have done for a long, long time. We've done a great job spreading them to other countries, too.


  • #7014
    JimmySnails
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 171 ✭✭JimmySnails


    Billy86 wrote: »
    Why do I get the funny feeling you're leading into a flawed poll...

    By the way, by that definition we've already got plenty of extremists and have done for a long, long time.

    Would you define those who believe in the aforementioned as extremists? It's a simple question. I don't know any Irish person who believes in death for leaving the church or death for adultery. We abolished the death penalty too.


  • #7015
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    JimmySnails wrote: »
    Do you define those who believe in the aforementioned to be extremists? It's a simple question. I don't know any Irish person who believes in death for leaving the church or death for adultery. We abolished the death penalty too.
    Surely you're not trying to claim you've never heard of any Irish people who "holds extreme political or religious views, especially one who advocates illegal, violent, or other extreme action"


  • #7016
    Rezident
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,840 ✭✭✭Rezident


    At what point can you say a particular belief system is actually doing more harm than good and therefore needs to be curbed in civilised societies? Soon I think.


  • #7017
    JimmySnails
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 171 ✭✭JimmySnails


    Billy86 wrote: »
    Surely you're not trying to claim you've never heard of any Irish people who "holds extreme political or religious views, especially one who advocates illegal, violent, or other extreme action"

    Yes, we have extremists here. No need to import more.

    The global Muslim population stands at 1.6 billion. Some 1.1 billion of them believe that a version of Sharia law should rule. 750 million believe in death for adultery and 580 million believe in death for apostasy.

    The average Muslim is the very definition of an extremist.

    Full study - http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-overview/

    Before you claim bias, Pew are non partisan and don't take policy positions.


  • #7018
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    questionmark? wrote: »
    Sounds like a 'community' that lives in Belgium that has no moral right to do so. If they identify as Moroccan rather than moroccan/Belgium and hide Europe's most wanted man from the local police force they have no right to live there. Oh wait, that's racism some will shout. I like travelling, and I do a fair bit of it, but the rule of when in Rome do as the Romans do applies anything else and you should feck off.

    Not condoning those guys, but let's not pretend like the west has been adapting to local cultures the world over for the last few hundred years either, and indeed the Irish harboring terrorists in the USA and further for decades. It goes both ways.


  • #7019
    JimmySnails
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 171 ✭✭JimmySnails


    Billy86 wrote: »
    Not condoning those guys, but let's not pretend like the west has been adapting to local cultures the world over for the last few hundred years either, and indeed the Irish harboring terrorists in the USA and further for decades. It goes both ways.

    Sounds like you are condoning them. So this is all payback, is it?


  • #7020
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    JimmySnails wrote: »
    Sounds like you are condoning them. So this is all payback, is it?

    There was something about my explicitly saying I do not condone them and that it goes both ways, that would suggest I am not. You do know the definition of the word condone, I hope?


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  • #7021
    walshyn93
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,685 ✭✭✭walshyn93


    cournioni wrote: »
    My opinion is:

    Islam is bad and is a poisonous ideology. Christianity is bad and is a poisonous ideology.

    In general, religion is bad and poisonous.

    On the issue of Tommy Robinson, having listened to him, I can see many parallels with what he says and what the late Christopher Hitchens said about Islam in the past. The only difference being that Robinson never really denounced Christianity whereas Hitchens openly criticized Christianity, Islam and all other religious ideologies.

    Islam and Christianity are not equally bad. They never have been either.


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