Shootings in Paris - MOD NOTE UPDATED - READ OP

suicide_circus

^^^look like a load of "yoofs" looking for an excuse for mischief

stefanovich

turnikett1 wrote: »

Instead, we'd have some other terrorist organization fighting in the name of some other extremist ideology. Do you really not see the links between western colonization, exploitation, bombings and radical terrorists? The mere fact that Islam exists doesn't mean it's inevitable that terrorist groups exist too. It's an Abrahamic religion which is no different or any less violent and repressive as Christianity or Judaism. The difference is that Christians and to an extent Jews control the world, and that Muslims are the ones who've had to suffer. I'm obviously not defending ISIS but I think it's silly to simply declare "Islam is the root of terrorism. No Islam, no problem". If in another world the Islamic world had become the world's colonizing industrial technological power, and Europe's nations and people were colonized and exploited, then you would equally see impoverished disgruntled Europeans clinging onto some pan-Christian identity, committing acts of terrorism in

I know what you are getting at but the reality is that a violent and expansionist version of Islam is being promoted and supported by a large number of Muslims worldwide. That is the reality on the ground. To somehow lessen the blame attributed to ISIS because the west treated the Arab world badly is nonsense.

Look at Saudi Arabia. Nice wealthy Arab state implementing Sharia, accepting none of its muslim refugee brothers, funding ISIS. Controlling oil prices worldwide.

stoplooklisten

suicide_circus wrote: »

^^^look like a load of "yoofs" looking for an excuse for mischief

What are they supposed to look like?

suicide_circus

stoplooklisten wrote: »

What are they supposed to look like?

I don't think they're representative of your average Belgian Muslim.

Nodin

stefanovich wrote: »

How progressive of them. Condemning ISIS. How many are still okay with stoning people to death, chopping off people's hands for theft, subjugation of women? How many support Shariah?

In your first link they are Sufis who in your average Muslim's eyes are not real Muslims.

And behold, the prophecy was fulfilled, the goalposts shifted, the justification for bigotry kept going.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=99110977&postcount=6958
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=99111001&postcount=6960

JPNelsforearm

suicide_circus wrote: »

I don't think they're representative of your average Belgian Muslim.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/11/15/how-belgium-became-a-terrorism-hotbed.html


"The number of jihadists, put into context, becomes quite alarming. “This number means that out of Belgium’s Muslim population of about 640,000 individuals, there is roughly one per 1,260 who has been involved in jihad in Syria and Iraq. At this point Belgium is, per capita, by far the European nation contributing the most to the foreign element in the Syrian war.”

stefanovich

Nodin wrote: »

And behold, the prophecy was fulfilled, the goalposts shifted, the justification for bigotry kept going.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=99110977&postcount=6958
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=99111001&postcount=6960

No, most of the links you posted were unreliable or unbelievable.

Just how does your support for Islam and its ideology exist in your mind alongside your liberal pro gay pro choice outlook?

suicide_circus

cournioni wrote: »

My opinion is:

Islam is bad and is a poisonous ideology. Christianity is bad and is a poisonous ideology.

In general, religion is bad and poisonous.

On the issue of Tommy Robinson, having listened to him, I can see many parallels with what he says and what the late Christopher Hitchens said about Islam in the past. The only difference being that Robinson never really denounced Christianity whereas Hitchens openly criticized Christianity, Islam and all other religious ideologies.

Well if Belgium didn't want a jihadi issue they shouldn't have forced so many Arab families to move there, any forced them to live in the same areas, and forced them to abandon their heritage, and denied them all rights and social services, and bombed Iraq for oil.........oh. wait.

Nodin

stefanovich wrote: »

No, most of the links you posted were unreliable or unbelievable...................

.....sad. Predictable though. Its why I rarely bother anymore.

stefanovich wrote:

Just how does your support for Islam and its ideology exist in your mind
alongside your liberal pro gay pro choice outlook?

To distil it down to its most basic - People can believe whatever crap they want up to a point, as long as they don't fuck with the rest of us or annoy me with it.

lazza14

Nodin wrote: »

.....sad. Predictable though. Its why I rarely bother anymore.



To distil it down to its most basic - People can believe whatever crap they want up to a point, as long as they don't fuck with the rest of us or annoy me with it.

But Islam ideology will do just that ...

Nodin

lazza14 wrote: »

But Islam ideology will do just that ...

No, it won't. Extremists will want to, because that's what extremists do.

AudreyHepburn

cournioni wrote: »

My opinion is:

Islam is bad and is a poisonous ideology. Christianity is bad and is a poisonous ideology.

In general, religion is bad and poisonous.

On the issue of Tommy Robinson, having listened to him, I can see many parallels with what he says and what the late Christopher Hitchens said about Islam in the past. The only difference being that Robinson never really denounced Christianity whereas Hitchens openly criticized Christianity, Islam and all other religious ideologies.

The religion isn't the problem....the extremists who twist and warp them for their own evil purposes are.

And I am glad to see yet another such extremist off the streets. I hope Salah Abdeslam never sees the light of day again.

Jack Killian

stefanovich wrote: »

IN your third link they quote the Koran.


I like the convenient "unjustly". I reckon the definition of just killing is quite wide.

On the other hand the Christians have a blanket "though shalt not kill" to which they arbitrarily add "unless the f**ker touches my daughter / robs my car", etc.

Jack Killian

lazza14 wrote: »

But Islam ideology will do just that ...

Hmmm

Good Friday closing Problems getting school places Magdalene laundries The eighth amendment

fed up sick and tired

turnikett1 wrote: »

Islam is the root of terrorism.

I didn't say that.

But I do say that Islam is the root of Islamic terrorism.

We have a character here who wants to dispute that.

suicide_circus

Jack Killian wrote: »

Hmmm

Good Friday closing Problems getting school places Magdalene laundries The eighth amendment

Ah yes, the Magdalene laundries, the whataboutery merchant's calling card.

Seriously, comparing that list to ISIS? Scarlet for ye.

Nodin

suicide_circus wrote: »

Ah yes, the Magdalene laundries, the whataboutery merchant's calling card.

Seriously, comparing that list to ISIS? Scarlet for ye.

He didn't.

Harry Palmr

Just keep shooting the ****ers when they turn up

511

Nodin wrote: »

No, it won't. Extremists will want to, because that's what extremists do.

Islam is the reason why Islam extremism exists. It's their motivator. The true face of Islam is extremism.

Why else are there violent passages in the Qur'an, did Muhammad just add them for the drama, to make Islam look for interesting?

Nodin

511 wrote: »

Islam is the reason why Islam extremism exists. It's their motivator. The true face of Islam is extremism.

Why else are there violent passages in the Qur'an, did Muhammad just add them for the drama, to make Islam look for interesting?

If that's the case why aren't they all at it? Or are you using your years of Islamic scholarship to make a religious judgement on the righteousness of the IS philosophy?

suicide_circus

Nodin wrote: »

He didn't.

Oh

511

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

The religion isn't the problem....the extremists who twist and warp them for their own evil purposes are.

Wrong. It is the problem. The behaviour of ISIS isn't much different from the first Muslims. You'd know this if you actually read up on the history of Islam and Muhammad instead of mindlessly apologising for a religion.

The reason why homosexuality is forbidden in the Islamic world is because the Qur'an clearly forbids it: https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Islam_and_Homosexuality

http://www.missionislam.com/knowledge/homosexuality.htm

Yeah, the religion isn't the problem! The dozens of homophobic quotes are just there for the dramatics! Religion would be boring if it didn't encourage its followers to kill homosexuals!

Give me a break.

511

Nodin wrote: »

If that's the case why aren't they all at it?

Because humans are not all mindless drones, they are capable of independent thought. Obviously. Religious people like to pick and choose which parts of their they like to believe in depending on their own personal views and level of intelligence.

It's similar to the way most Christians in the West know Creationism is bullshít, but they still refuse to question the legitimacy of their entire faith for a variety of reasons, but there's a much higher percentage of secular Christians than secular Muslims, so that why extremism far more common in Islam.

The Sunni Muslims who come out with fallacious arguments such as "ISIS are not real Muslims", and the who haven't studied Qur'an and the Hadith thoroughly seeing as the difference between ISIS and and the first Muslims are superficial.

Or are you using your years of Islamic scholarship to make a religious judgement on the righteousness of the IS philosophy?

I know a lot more about the religion than you, that's for certain.

questionmark?

suicide_circus wrote: »

^^^look like a load of "yoofs" looking for an excuse for mischief

That wasnt just your 'yoofs' though was it they were angry over one thing and that is the cheek of the police to arrest one of their own in 'their' area. If they are against the police and supporting a murderer from ISIS then I don't think it's beyond reason to export them back to wherever they came from but I'm sure someone will scream racism. (Awaits their Belgium nationals response even though they never have and never will identify as such).

Nodin

511 wrote: »

Because (.........)for certain.

So - according to you - IS have islam right and all the other muslims are wrong. Hmmmmm.

Billy86

stefanovich wrote: »

The glaring difference is that a significant minority of muslims are the crazy type and the rest don't condemn them.

Unlike all the condemnations of the Lords Resistance Army we keep hearing from all Christian corners down the years?

Billy86

suicide_circus wrote: »

Billy, if she was a GOOD Muslim, this convenient Bosnian girl who suits your argument so well, wouldn't have gone near you.

I love how the concept of someone Muslim being a normal person is such a mind f**k for some on here. And you wonder why people view you lot as narrow minded, ignorant bigots without much of a clue about the world. :pac:

Fact is she is Muslim. Fact is her family is too. Her dad would have a good reason to have a grudge against Christians - he was in the Balkan War. But he doesn't. Amazing as this might be to hear, some people don't look for reasons to identify someone else as an 'other' and hate them. That this seems to incomprehensible to the likes of you, walshy, AlekSmart, etc does nothing but show your own uninformed and ignorant prejudices for what they are.

I also went out with another Muslim girl from Libya briefly. Her dad was from there, and they lived there until she was a 8 or 9 or so. Her mam was Irish and Catholic... and the only one in the house who didn't observe Ramadan. Oh yeah, and you'd find most of her friends in the Dragon of all places. What a crazy world, eh!?

Billy86

walshyn93 wrote: »

You're just using sarcasm as a cloak to avoid scrutiny of your opinions. You seem to struggle with the notion that others can read between the lines.

No, you really are struggling. I'll make it easier for you.

Nodin's comment was sarcastic.

(there's your hint)






(here's another)

Nodin wrote: »

Dear Billy,

Thank you for your missive. I did indeed intend the former proposition.

Yours in Christ,
Nodin.

Billy86

511 wrote: »

Islam is the reason why Islam extremism exists. It's their motivator. The true face of Islam is extremism.

Why else are there violent passages in the Qur'an, did Muhammad just add them for the drama, to make Islam look for interesting?

Christianity is the reason why Christian extremism exists. It's their motivator. The true face of Christianity is extremism.

Why else are there violent passages in the Bible, did God just add them for the drama, to make Islam look for interesting?

suicide_circus

Billy86 wrote: »

I love how the concept of someone Muslim being a normal person is such a mind f**k for some on here. And you wonder why people view you lot as narrow minded, ignorant bigots without much of a clue about the world. :pac:

Fact is she is Muslim. Fact is her family is too. Her dad would have a good reason to have a grudge against Christians - he was in the Balkan War. But he doesn't. Amazing as this might be to hear, some people don't look for reasons to identify someone else as an 'other' and hate them. That this seems to incomprehensible to the likes of you, walshy, AlekSmart, etc does nothing but show your own uninformed and ignorant prejudices for what they are.

I also went out with another Muslim girl from Libya briefly. Her dad was from there, and they lived there until she was a 8 or 9 or so. Her mam was Irish and Catholic... and the only one in the house who didn't observe Ramadan. Oh yeah, and you'd find most of her friends in the Dragon of all places. What a crazy world, eh!?

Calm down Warren Beatty. I have no problem with Muslims being "normal", I've met plenty of them. But according to doctrine, Muslim women should not date non Muslim men. That's all I'm saying.