US Student sentenced to 15 years hard labour in North Korea

Ice Maiden · 17-03-2016 03:25PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

4 Says who ?

Of course it is. The above is just being obtuse. All punishments there are far above the crime (read the post earlier about labour camps) - some of it could not even be logically called crime.
But I agree with you otherwise that he was stupid. Still feel sorry for the dope though.

Iwasfrozen · 17-03-2016 03:26PM

Ice Maiden wrote: »

Misuse of "we" is stupid. They have no choice but to support the regime ffs. What about people in camps? Oh hang on, are you just pretending to be stupid again?

We definition:
"used by a speaker to refer to himself or herself and one or more other people considered togethe"

If you have any more problems with the concept of "we" and "western world" let me know.

So your idea is to allow the suffering to continue? I suppose you would have supported allowing the Nazis to carry out the Holocaust?

Ice Maiden · 17-03-2016 03:26PM

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

We're the people killed in France last year by IS innocent? Or did they deserve to die because they "support the regime"?

He would say no of course.

How about the thousands of Palestine people killed by indiscriminate bombing by Israel?

May say yes.

My name is URL · 17-03-2016 03:26PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

We are the West. Are they innocent people if they support the regime?

It's easy to say 'we' should bomb a country back to the stone ages, when 'you' don't have to actually get involved or deal with the fallout.

Such an idiotic statement.

Can't say I'm surprised that you'd support the murder of civilians though, despite the bellyaching you indulge in regarding the murder of civilians in other conflicts.

B_Wayne · 17-03-2016 03:27PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

We are the West. Are they innocent people if they support the regime?

North Korean citizens have been brainwashed for over fifty years and been separated entirely from the outside world. Basically victims of a large scale cult. So yep, very much so innocent.

Iwasfrozen · 17-03-2016 03:27PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

1 why ?
2 How do you know ?
3 Again how do you know ?
4 Says who ?

Your defence of the North Korean regime is touching. You're a good useful idiot.

Ice Maiden · 17-03-2016 03:28PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

So your idea is to allow the suffering to continue?

Haha, laughable. Do explain to me how that is my idea. Utter trolling.

I suppose you would have supported allowing the Nazis to carry out the Holocaust?

Yes, of course you "suppose" that.

Iwasfrozen - some bombing good, other bombing bad.

Explain again the logic of bombing a whole load of innocent people for the actions of the regime they are forced to live under?

eeguy · 17-03-2016 03:29PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

We are the West. Are they innocent people if they support the regime?

Do they have a choice?

My name is URL · 17-03-2016 03:31PM

eeguy wrote: »

Do they have a choice?

Shur aren't they free to leave or revolt? /s

I think part of Iwasfrozen is still a bit frozen, mainly his brain

Iwasfrozen · 17-03-2016 03:32PM

Ice Maiden wrote: »

Haha, laughable. Do explain to me how that is my idea. Utter trolling.

Well you seem to be against western intervention to overthrow the regime. Would you rather wait until Kim is overthrown by Koreans, if ever? Because that won't be bloodless.

Yes, of course you "suppose" that.

Iwasfrozen - some bombing good, other bombing bad.

Explain again the logic of bombing a whole load of innocent people for the actions of the regime they are forced to live under?

Bomb the regime and support pro southern rebels on the inside to form an alternative government.

How do you think we should deal with North Korea?

darkpagandeath · 17-03-2016 03:36PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Your defence of the North Korean regime is touching. You're a good useful idiot.

Where did I do that now ? Care to answer the Questions ?

Ice Maiden · 17-03-2016 03:39PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Well you seem to be against western intervention to overthrow the regime.

I am against bombing a whole country into the stone age (your words) and cannot see how this would help innocent civilians. You are always complaining about bombing innocent civilians in certain contexts - but then you actually say "we" should bomb a country into the stone age. How laughable is that?

Shur they are not innocent anyway are they, if they support the regime? You tell me I wish to see the suffering continue (pitiful) yet you are the one who comes out with gems like that. Could not make it up.

Stop saying "we" by the way - it gives people credit for something they have not done. If there is one person who most certainly will not be doing any of the work, it is you.

Bomb the regime and support pro southern rebels on the inside to form an alternative government.

Well that makes a lot more sense than "Bomb the whole country into the stone age".

darkpagandeath · 17-03-2016 03:39PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Well you seem to be against western intervention to overthrow the regime. Would you rather wait until Kim is overthrown by Koreans, if ever? Because that won't be bloodless.

Bomb the regime and support pro southern rebels on the inside to form an alternative government.

How do you think we should deal with North Korea?

Ireland ? How would you imagine dealing with a mass indoctrinated population ? That are just as likely to murder you because the leader.

Iwasfrozen · 17-03-2016 03:41PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Where did I do that now ? Care to answer the Questions ?

Right here,

1. There shouldn't be propaganda posters in North Korean hotels.
1. Why?

4. His punishment was far above his crime.
4. Says who?

So don't disagree the NK has a right to put up propaganda posters in hotels and you don't disagree his sentence was overly harsh?

You're acting the maggot.

Dohnjoe · 17-03-2016 03:42PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

How do you think we should deal with North Korea?

Military attack is not an option. China would be unable to cope with the floods of North Korean refugees that would pour across the border, as such wouldn't support any attack, likewise regionally it would be very unpopular

The international community can just keep applying pressure in the hope that the regime cracks, folds or reforms

In the last few years, China has come on board more and more with sanctions and pressure. Since they control virtually all trade and 70% of gas to the country they can potentially make a long term difference

Skylinehead · 17-03-2016 03:43PM

Mod: Tone down the personal abuse lads

Iwasfrozen · 17-03-2016 03:45PM

Ice Maiden wrote: »

I am against bombing a whole country into the stone age (your words) and cannot see how this would help innocent civilians. You are always complaining about bombing innocent civilians in certain contexts - but then you actually say "we" should bomb a country into the stone age. How laughable is that?
Shur they are not innocent anyway are they, if they support the regime? You tell me I wish to see the suffering continue (pitiful) yet you are the one who comes out with gems like that. Could not make it up.
Stop saying "we" by the way - it gives people credit for something they have not done. If there is one person who most certainly will not be doing any of the work, it is you.

Well that makes a lot more sense than "Bomb the whole country into the stone age".

A slower, effective but morally dubious way to overthrow the regime would be to place a UN embargo on aid and trade, triggering another famine.

darkpagandeath · 17-03-2016 03:45PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Right here,

1. There shouldn't be propaganda posters in North Korean hotels.
1. Why?

4. His punishment was far above his crime.
4. Says who?

So don't disagree the NK has a right to put up propaganda posters in hotels and you don't disagree his sentence was overly harsh?

You're acting the maggot.

1. Who are we to say what should be in NK hotels ?

4. In an Irish context yes it is. But the guy went to a country that his own government advises not to. And they have laws.

Fail to see how any of that Supports NK.

Ice Maiden · 17-03-2016 03:46PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

You're acting the maggot.

I know - being obtuse, argumentative for the sake of it... it is a crap discussion strategy all right.

Nobody sane (or who is not inclined to be argumentative for the sake of it) agrees with the regime but whether you agree or not with state posters being in a hotel (all public buildings are state buildings there) they are there, and someone removing one is beyond belief stupid.
Of course the punishments are too harsh though.

Ice Maiden · 17-03-2016 03:51PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

1. Who are we to say what should be in NK hotels ?

4. In an Irish context yes it is. But the guy went to a country that his own government advises not to. And they have laws.

Fail to see how any of that Supports NK.

He knows that full well.

Iwasfrozen · 17-03-2016 03:52PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

1. Who are we to say what should be in NK hotels ?

4. In an Irish context yes it is. But the guy went to a country that his own government advises not to. And they have laws.

Fail to see how any of that Supports NK.

1. We are people North Korea would do better to emulate.
.
2. Like I said, overly harsh punishment.

Iwasfrozen · 17-03-2016 03:55PM

Ice Maiden wrote: »

I know - being obtuse, argumentative for the sake of it... it is a crap discussion strategy all right.

Nobody sane (or who is not inclined to be argumentative for the sake of it) agrees with the regime but whether you agree or not with state posters being in a hotel (all public buildings are state buildings there) they are there, and someone removing one is beyond belief stupid.
Of course the punishments are too harsh though.

North Korea is a vile repressive state guilty of numerous human rights abuses. Kim should be on trial in the Hague.

Debtocracy · 17-03-2016 03:55PM

If everyone who did something idiotic was sent for hard labour there’d be no idiots left on boards commenting about why such a sentence is deserving

darkpagandeath · 17-03-2016 03:55PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

1. We are people North Korea would do better to emulate.
.
2. Like I said, overly harsh punishment.

1. That they would Indeed.

2. I agree fully never said different. Simply pointing out not liking it will do nothing for the person involved.

Timberrrrrrrr · 17-03-2016 04:00PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

North Korea is a vile repressive state guilty of numerous human rights abuses. Kim should be on trial in the Hague.

So is Saudi Arabia and China yet i don't see you calling for them being bombed.

MarkAnthony · 17-03-2016 04:01PM

Apparently it's not that bad for him. A Journalist asked him if he was being badly treated and he said he couldn't complain...

I'll get my coat.

mikeym · 17-03-2016 04:01PM

He says some church group told him to take some propaganda.

Whatever happened to "Thou shall not steal".

He gets what he deserves .

Iwasfrozen · 17-03-2016 04:04PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

1. That they would Indeed.

2. I agree fully never said different. Simply pointing out not liking it will do nothing for the person involved.

Unfortunately I doubt there's anything that can be done without giving concessions to NK. It's a difficult place to be in for the Americans and I understand if people disagree but I don't think the US should make any concessions for his release.

As doing so will only streghten the regime and encourage them to arrest more Americans.

Iwasfrozen · 17-03-2016 04:05PM

mikeym wrote: »

He says some church group told him to take some propaganda.

Whatever happened to "Thou shall not steal".

He gets what he deserves .

He "confessed" that.

Ice Maiden · 17-03-2016 04:08PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

North Korea is a vile repressive state guilty of numerous human rights abuses. Kim should be on trial in the Hague.

Well obviously.

Debtocracy wrote: »

If everyone who did something idiotic was sent for hard labour there’d be no idiots left on boards commenting about why such a sentence is deserving

Ok you will always get the odd person trying to be edgy by saying "Lol no sympathy" but other than that, I do not think anyone has said it is "deserved" have they? Nobody deserves the sentences they hand out over there, but that does not mean they cannot always be avoided by foreigners (less so the poor feckers who have to live there).
Saying he was stupid to do something which he knew could result in a very harsh reprimand, is not the same as saying it is deserved. You can think both. My heart goes out to the poor guy but ffs what an idiotic thing he did. Simply curbing his own behaviour could have prevented this horrendous outcome for him and those close to him. No matter how much you disagree with a regime, you simply cannot stick two fingers up at it when visiting, if you do not want to be punished. As a woman, I obviously find Saudi Arabia repugnant but if I had to go there (and I would not choose to in a fit - but if I had to) I wouldn't be wearing a low-cut top or short skirt or knee-high boots, much as I think I should have the right to wear what the hell I want.

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Drunken teens invade cork

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/locals-vent-anger-after-200-teens-invade-cork-village-347446.html

Riots after super bowl

http://my.xfinity.com/slideshow/sports-topwinriots/5/

Pensioner beaten and mugged

http://www.echo.ie/tallaght/item/pensioner-beaten-with-hammer-and-mugged-in-afternoon-attack

Disabled girl gang raped

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=95129

I know how he debates but I genuinely think he means this country is a better place in which to live than NK is, and he is obviously right.

US Student sentenced to 15 years hard labour in North Korea

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