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Shootings in Paris - MOD NOTE UPDATED - READ OP

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Comments

  • #6842
    My name is URL
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,563 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    I wonder if this guy will be treated as a terrorist, or charged with same

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35093799

    Can anyone come up with a legit reason why he shouldn't be?


  • #6843
    The Randy Riverbeast
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,770 ✭✭✭The Randy Riverbeast


    My name is URL wrote: »
    I wonder if this guy will be treated as a terrorist, or charged with same

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35093799

    Can anyone come up with a legit reason why he shouldn't be?

    Would someone supporting ISIS call is Daesh?

    He'll will probably be labeled a nut job and everyone will forget this happened in a week or they will still be claiming it actually happened and its a conspiracy by the mainstream media.


  • #6844
    JimmySnails
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 171 ✭✭JimmySnails


    The Eagles of Death Metal performed again in Paris last night to honour the victims and to finish their set - they started the concert by performing "Paris s'éveille". Clips are on youtube. Very emotional stuff.


  • #6845
    stoplooklisten
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,492 ✭✭✭stoplooklisten


    Hunt for Paris massacre jihadists after shootout in Brussels: Three police officers injured and gunman on run following anti-terror raid

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3493389/Police-officer-shot-anti-terror-raid-house-Brussels-hunt-Paris-massacre-suspects.html#ixzz42zHrLBWe
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

    and they're off


  • #6846
    walshyn93
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,685 ✭✭✭walshyn93


    FatherTed wrote: »
    I've thought all along all this IS stuff and previously Al-Qaeda is down to people living sh*t lives in a crap place with no prospects. They see people in the west living relatively good lives(compared to themselves anyway) and they cannot obtain that. And that goes for people likes these guys from Paris and Brussels who were involved in the Paris attacks. If they all had good jobs and a good life they wouldn't even have the time to get all worked up about IS. Is my view too simplistic on this?

    The 9/11 bombers all had college degrees. Some of them could fly planes. Poverty is not the reason. When it comes down to it and you eliminate all the possibilities the only common denominator is Islam.


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  • #6847
    TheHillOfDoom
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 794 ✭✭✭TheHillOfDoom


    walshyn93 wrote: »
    The 9/11 bombers all had college degrees. Some of them could fly planes. Poverty is not the reason. When it comes down to it and you eliminate all the possibilities the only common denominator is Islam.

    You should watch this documentary https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kpKGodg4to

    I watched it on BBC, but I think it's the same one. They were highly educated.


  • #6848
    fr336
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,179 ✭✭✭✭fr336


    walshyn93 wrote: »
    The 9/11 bombers all had college degrees. Some of them could fly planes. Poverty is not the reason. When it comes down to it and you eliminate all the possibilities the only common denominator is Islam.

    Well there is another common denominator - saddos and outcasts. There is always a peverse selfish reason behind these things. Religion tends to be a nice little excuse, both to themselves and others. ****...


  • #6849
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    walshyn93 wrote: »
    The 9/11 bombers all had college degrees. Some of them could fly planes. Poverty is not the reason. When it comes down to it and you eliminate all the possibilities the only common denominator is Islam.

    We're off already I see.


  • #6850
    ceadaoin.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,728 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    fr336 wrote: »
    Well there is another common denominator - saddos and outcasts. There is always a peverse selfish reason behind these things. Religion tends to be a nice little excuse, both to themselves and others. ****...

    I don't think the Paris attackers could be described as saddos and outcasts, same with the 9/11 hijackers. They aren't the same as other perpetrators of mass killings such as those seen regularly in the U.S. I don't think you can deny that ideology is the primary motivator in these attacks.

    That is not the same as saying that all followers of that ideology are potential terrorists btw


  • #6851
    thattequilagirl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,158 ✭✭✭thattequilagirl


    walshyn93 wrote: »
    The 9/11 bombers all had college degrees. Some of them could fly planes. Poverty is not the reason. When it comes down to it and you eliminate all the possibilities the only common denominator is Islam.

    It's not about poverty. Watching your people get bombed to bits repeatedly over a couple of generations will have an impact on your ideology whether or not you're well schooled.


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  • #6852
    walshyn93
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,685 ✭✭✭walshyn93


    thattequilagirl wrote: »
    It's not about poverty. Watching your people get bombed to bits repeatedly over a couple of generations will have an impact on your ideology whether or not you're well schooled.

    >Be Saudi
    >Watch your people get bombed

    Pick one.


  • #6853
    WarZ
    Closed Accounts Posts: 972 ✭✭✭WarZ


    walshyn93 wrote: »
    The 9/11 bombers all had college degrees. Some of them could fly planes. Poverty is not the reason. When it comes down to it and you eliminate all the possibilities the only common denominator is Islam.

    Actually terrorism is probably the most effective and logical method of warfare for a extremist group that doesn't enjoy popular support.

    The targetted entity inevitably strikes back disproportionately leading to a recruitment frenzy for the once small pocket of extremists as more and more people begin to join and fund their movement.

    Osama Bin Laden had written about his plan to drag America into a costly, bitter and long campaign in the Middle East and Afghanistan. He called his plan 'death by a thousand cuts'.

    ISIS aren't carrying out attacks in Paris and resorting to gruesome beheadings, burnings and drownings because of ideology. It is to shock the Western world and force them to react and get bogged down in Syria just as America did in Afghanistan and Iraq.

    Once that happens and the western world shifts casaulties, overspends and public opinion turns against war the power of the Western world takes a massive hit. It becomes a political gamble to intervene in North Africa and the Middle East and incredibly costly to the economy so the idea is that they will become war weary and leave the region alone a la America and Africa after Somalia.

    Once that happens they can spread their influence eventually overthrowing the powerful Gulf monarchies and gaining control of the oil.

    Who knows what happens then


  • #6854
    tomwaterford
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,768 ✭✭✭✭tomwaterford


    walshyn93 wrote: »
    The 9/11 bombers all had college degrees. Some of them could fly planes.

    Just not very well :pac: :pac:


  • #6855
    thattequilagirl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,158 ✭✭✭thattequilagirl


    walshyn93 wrote: »
    >Be Saudi
    >Watch your people get bombed

    Pick one.

    You're assuming that Saudi's only consider other Saudi's their people. That's a simplistic interpretation of the Arab world.


  • #6856
    Herb Powell
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,097 ✭✭✭Herb Powell


    thattequilagirl wrote: »
    You're assuming that Saudi's only consider other Saudi's their people. That's a simplistic interpretation of the Arab world.

    Don't expect to find much more than that in threads like this.


  • #6857
    ArtSmart
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,610 ✭✭✭ArtSmart


    walshyn93 wrote: »
    The 9/11 bombers all had college degrees. Some of them could fly planes. Poverty is not the reason. When it comes down to it and you eliminate all the possibilities the only common denominator is Islam.
    A bit like saying that the only common denominator of the PIRA was Catholicism.


  • #6858
    ArtSmart
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,610 ✭✭✭ArtSmart


    ArtSmart wrote: »
    A bit like saying that the only common denominator of the PIRA was Catholicism.
    Even the Daily Wail agrees...

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3493741/How-ISIS-going-against-Islam-s-teachings-Texts-suggest-Muslim-prophet-wanted-Christians-protected-defended-claims-expert.html

    :)


  • #6859
    volchitsa
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,188 ✭✭✭✭volchitsa


    ArtSmart wrote: »
    A bit like saying that the only common denominator of the PIRA was Catholicism.

    The IRA always had some Protestant members, even during the Troubles - and there was no expectation that they would convert. How many non Muslims would you expect to find among Islamic terrorists?

    You could say though that the common denominator was being Irish. And you would have a point.

    "If a woman cannot stand in a public space and say, without fear of consequences, that men cannot be women, then women have no rights at all." Helen Joyce



  • #6860
    fed up sick and tired
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,015 ✭✭✭fed up sick and tired


    volchitsa wrote: »
    The IRA always had some Protestant members, even during the Troubles - and there was no expectation that they would convert. How many non Muslims would you expect to find among Islamic terrorists?

    You could say though that the common denominator was being Irish. And you would have a point.

    Overwhelmingly Irish, though not exclusively.

    Rose Dugdale comes to mind immediately.

    I'd never heard of Hayes and Taylor until now...

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/proud-ira-bombers-jailed-for-30-years-police-remain-mystified-why-two-englishmen-who-had-no-apparent-1435755.html


  • #6861
    JPNelsforearm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,147 ✭✭✭JPNelsforearm


    fed up sick and tired wrote: »
    Overwhelmingly Irish, though not exclusively.

    Rose Dugdale comes to mind immediately.

    I'd never heard of Hayes and Taylor until now...

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/proud-ira-bombers-jailed-for-30-years-police-remain-mystified-why-two-englishmen-who-had-no-apparent-1435755.html

    They seem more like communists then Irish nationalists, I think they were striking a blow for the international proletariat rather than a blow for Irish sovereignty.


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  • #6862
    wakka12
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,786 ✭✭✭wakka12


    Just heard that several terrorists were arrested and had planned an imminent attack in central Paris. Sadly Im a little bit worried about going to paris tomorrow!


  • #6863
    SpaceSasqwatch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 768 ✭✭✭SpaceSasqwatch


    wakka12 wrote: »
    Just heard that several terrorists were arrested and had planned an imminent attack in central Paris. Sadly Im a little bit worried about going to paris tomorrow!
    still more likely to die travelling there than a terrorist attack...your call


  • #6864
    walshyn93
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,685 ✭✭✭walshyn93


    thattequilagirl wrote: »
    You're assuming that Saudi's only consider other Saudi's their people. That's a simplistic interpretation of the Arab world.

    I took that poster's meaning of "their people" to mean their immediate local community since they'd otherwise have to seek out videos on live leak to see Muslims getting blown up.

    If we're talking about Muslims in general being inspired by acts of violence against other Muslims a world away then I have to say the argument is largely irrelevant, not least because Muslims kill other Muslims a whole lot more, but because if recruiters don't get the anti-Western propaganda material from actual acts of Western aggression, they'll just make it up. If more Western people knew the extent to which things disregarded as fringe conspiracy theories in the West are regarded as fact in the Middle East they wouldn't be so worried about giving them some more facts to work with. An astounding number of Muslims genuinely believe that 9/11 was an Israeli Mossad plot to smear Muslims or some other variation of that conspiracy.


  • #6865
    fed up sick and tired
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,015 ✭✭✭fed up sick and tired


    SpaceSasqwatch wrote: »
    still more likely to die travelling there than a terrorist attack...your call

    As a generalisation, yes of course.

    The odds are somewhat different given a specific day, with a specific set of circumstances, in a specific city.

    Personally though, I would travel.


  • #6866
    KingBrian2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,360 ✭✭✭KingBrian2


    Europe is continuing to condone terrorism by providing safe havens to organisations such as the FSA, Muslim Brotherhood and Hamas committing atrocities in places like Syria so until these organisations are all treated the same than this will continue to play out. For some strange reason the PKK a secular organisation is labeled terrorist organisation. We have plenty of evidence that other organisations are deeply involved in terrorism.


  • #6867
    walshyn93
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,685 ✭✭✭walshyn93


    ArtSmart wrote: »
    A bit like saying that the only common denominator of the PIRA was Catholicism.

    Is it? Is the information on known PIRA members' educational history, employment status, income, crime victimisation rate publicly available? Because with Google we can fairly easily look into the background of known Muslims terrorists to see what their lives were like. Not so with the PIRA so it's a weak comparison.

    Also very worth noting that Republicanism is a secular ideology whereas Islamism/Jihadism is not. There was never much of a religious component. There was never any suggestion that a reform of Catholic or Protestant doctrine would bring about peace.


  • #6868
    SpaceSasqwatch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 768 ✭✭✭SpaceSasqwatch


    fed up sick and tired wrote: »
    The odds are somewhat different given a specific day, with a specific set of circumstances, in a specific city.
    /QUOTE]
    yeah you're right.
    still more likely to die travelling there than a terrorist attack


  • #6869
    fed up sick and tired
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,015 ✭✭✭fed up sick and tired


    SpaceSasqwatch wrote: »
    yeah you're right.
    still more likely to die travelling there than a terrorist attack

    How do you know ?


  • #6870
    SpaceSasqwatch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 768 ✭✭✭SpaceSasqwatch


    fed up sick and tired wrote: »
    How do you know ?
    numbers..a strange science called maths


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  • #6871
    fed up sick and tired
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,015 ✭✭✭fed up sick and tired


    SpaceSasqwatch wrote: »
    numbers..a strange science called maths

    Let's have some then.


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