What do you want from a blog? [no names please]

onthemitch · 15-03-2016 03:34PM

karensgal wrote: »

I'd you Google the gomi bloggers and the name of one of Ireland first bloggers now a brand name you'll find an interesting thread!

Do you mean interesting, or do you mean disgusting? "Total scum"; "she has a total bitch face"; "she dresses like a Traveller."

Also the number of people saying: "I've been following her for years and think she's rubbish." Doesn't that say a LOT more about you than it does about her?! Pathetic.

THIS is why boards doesn't want us mentioning bloggers – because there are some jealous little b*tches who want to go online and make personal comments about people they don't know whose blogs they just can't resist following because why?!

Unreg0909 · 15-03-2016 04:01PM

Rosemary was your article in the independent today meant to be tongue in cheek? Genuine question

onthemitch · 15-03-2016 04:08PM

Unreg0909 wrote: »

Rosemary was your article in the independent today meant to be tongue in cheek? Genuine question

How would it have been tongue in cheek?

It was about how whenever anyone criticises Kim Kardashian, or any online influencer for that matter, they get branded a hater or accused of some form of "shaming" when, maybe, just maybe, they just don't like what that person is using their platform for. And as the end user – the "fan" or "follower" – I'd consider that a form of customer feedback.

Unreg0909 · 15-03-2016 04:10PM

Ok- thanks!

Hopeful2016 · 15-03-2016 04:34PM

onthemitch wrote: »

THIS is why boards doesn't want us mentioning bloggers – because there are some jealous little b*tches who want to go online and make personal comments about people they don't know whose blogs they just can't resist following because why?!

How do you know these responses stem from jealously? Not that I'm in any way condoning those remarks but jealousy is always a word that's thrown about together with the infamous "hater". Whatever my views on snap chatters or bloggers or whatever the correct term is, one thing I'm certainly not is jealous of them and I'm sure that is true of a lot of followers. Being popular on snapchat is not really a career, certainly not one with any longevity anyway. I certainly doubt they'll be still popular with the masses in 10 years time, could it even be said that they are that popular today? For the vast majority of youtubers or snap chatters, they are virtually unknown in the real world.

I don't think you give followers credit who are just that, followers, who have real careers and earn money to buy whatever make up or other items which take their fancy and don't go without just because it's not sent to them for free.

As someone who has a career, a degree, a masters and a professional qualification, I'm certainly not jealous of someone just because they are getting sent stuff (often low end budget stuff) for free. But I do expect them to be transparent with sponsored posts, paid reviews or items received for free, I'd prefer to know if something is getting a positive review whether or not the person is benefiting personally from saying that. I'm not sure how that makes me jealous.

onthemitch · 15-03-2016 04:40PM

Hopeful2016 wrote: »

How do you know these responses stem from jealously? Not that I'm in any way condoning those remarks but jealousy is always a word that's thrown about together with the infamous "hater". Whatever my views on snap chatters or bloggers or whatever the correct term is, one thing I'm certainly not is jealous of them and I'm sure that is true of a lot of followers. Being popular on snapchat is not really a career, certainly not one with any longevity anyway. I certainly doubt they'll be still popular with the masses in 10 years time, could it even be said that they are that popular today? For the vast majority of youtubers or snap chatters, they are virtually unknown in the real world.

I don't think you give followers credit who are just that, followers, who have real careers and earn money to buy whatever make up or other items which take their fancy and don't go without just because it's not sent to them for free.

As someone who has a career, a degree, a masters and a professional qualification, I'm certainly not jealous of someone just because they are getting sent stuff (often low end budget stuff) for free. But I do expect them to be transparent with sponsored posts, paid reviews or items received for free, I'd prefer to know if something is getting a positive review whether or not the person is benefiting personally from saying that. I'm not sure how that makes me jealous.

I don't think all criticism is due to jealousy, at all – and the issues with bloggers' honesty and disclosure are perfectly valid. But if someone says, "I've been following that person for years and I hate her..." well, what other reason have they to keep following them? I think a lot of people get burned up with hatred for these strangers, because they see them getting things they'd like, living a life they'd like to lead, and they don't think they deserve it. It's a theory; obviously I can't be sure, but why else would you choose to follow someone you hate, and bring yourself so much misery?

SB_Part2 · 15-03-2016 04:42PM

Hopeful2016 wrote: »

I'm not sure how that makes me jealous.

Are you one of the people that posted stuff on GOMI saying that the person looked like a traveller? or that had a bitch face?

I love discussing bloggers. The good points and the bad but I looked at the thread on GOMI about that blogger and wow. Talk about bloody bitches. NOTHING they said was anyway at all constructive. It was hurtful and nasty. Imaging someone saying you looked like a traveller?

I can understand why boards doesn't want discussion of bloggers here if that's the path it ends up going down.

Hopeful2016 · 15-03-2016 05:11PM

SB_Part2 wrote: »

Are you one of the people that posted stuff on GOMI saying that the person looked like a traveller? or that had a bitch face?

I love discussing bloggers. The good points and the bad but I looked at the thread on GOMI about that blogger and wow. Talk about bloody bitches. NOTHING they said was anyway at all constructive. It was hurtful and nasty. Imaging someone saying you looked like a traveller?

I can understand why boards doesn't want discussion of bloggers here if that's the path it ends up going down.

Absolutely not. I'd never heard of that website until it was mentioned here yesterday. I've never seen the posts referred to above and I explicitly stated above that I didn't condone those type of comments. My query was how it was ascertained that it was jealousy driving the comments, jealousy is an accusation made very often in discussions around blogging and is not isolated to the discussion around the comments on that website. My post appears to have been clearer to Rosemary above, as she doesn't jump to the conclusion that I'm the poster of nasty comments. Rosemary just responds in an adult, non-hysterical fashion, to the points I'd made.

It says above that she was dressed like a traveller (not very PC btw) not that she looked like one. I'm not sure what's to be gained from asking me to imagine if someone said it about me as I didn't actually write the post you are referring to. Nor, again, am I defending it.

My post wasn't in support of the comments, which should be clear from reading it, it was questioning the assertion that these comments were specifically driven by jealousy. Maybe they genuinely thought she was dressed similar to a member of the travelling community? I just don't the automatic jealousy connection, maybe that poster is just the type of person who thinks it's acceptable to post comments like that. I don't know their reason for posting it but it seems like jealousy is the answer to everything.

lazygal · 15-03-2016 05:19PM

onthemitch wrote: »

Do you mean interesting, or do you mean disgusting? "Total scum"; "she has a total bitch face"; "she dresses like a Traveller."

Also the number of people saying: "I've been following her for years and think she's rubbish." Doesn't that say a LOT more about you than it does about her?! Pathetic.

THIS is why boards doesn't want us mentioning bloggers – because there are some jealous little b*tches who want to go online and make personal comments about people they don't know whose blogs they just can't resist following because why?!

You lost me when the old 'YOU'RE JUST JEALOUS' line got trotted out. It's the trusty standby of anyone who can't come up with a better argument.

I read blogs of people I don't like all the time, especially a few that have very long GOMI threads. It's pure nosiness. They have nothing I want and I'm secure in my lifestyle so I'm not jealous of anything they have or do.

SB_Part2 · 15-03-2016 05:21PM

I agree that the jealously word is thrown out a lot. I'm not going to lie and say I'm not jealous of some bloggers and the free hotel stays etc. I'd love that.

If I don't like a blogger or they do something to annoy me I unfollow them. I wouldn't, like what the people on GOMI do, continue to follow them for YEARS just to be continuously annoyed by them. I think that maybe they are jealous and are following them to see what else they get so they have another reason to hate them.

retro:electro · 15-03-2016 05:24PM

onthemitch wrote: »

Do you mean interesting, or do you mean disgusting? "Total scum"; "she has a total bitch face"; "she dresses like a Traveller."

Also the number of people saying: "I've been following her for years and think she's rubbish." Doesn't that say a LOT more about you than it does about her?! Pathetic.

THIS is why boards doesn't want us mentioning bloggers – because there are some jealous little b*tches who want to go online and make personal comments about people they don't know whose blogs they just can't resist following because why?!

See now you're pooling everyone who has ever criticised how a blogger presents themselves into the one category and calling them jealous bitches. But today in your article you said bloggers who put themeselves out there should expect to be criticised. So which is it Rosemary?

lazygal · 15-03-2016 05:34PM

As for the idea that, “if you've nothing nice to say, say nothing at all”, unless you're seven years old, that no longer holds any sway. As humans, we are thoughtful, critical beings – and if you're making your living from appealing to the public, whether as a blogger or a reality TV star, you've got to expect your adoring public to speak up every now and again.

It doesn't mean we're trying to “shame” you; we're just not buying what you're selling. It's called customer feedback – and sometimes, it might be worth taking it on board.

http://www.independent.ie/style/voices/rosemary-maccabe-no-kim-its-not-slut-shaming-we-just-dont-like-you-34540696.html

Maybe the posters on GOMI aren't jealous? Maybe they're coming to the same conclusions as Rosemary?

SB_Part2 · 15-03-2016 05:39PM

I think there's a huge difference though between giving feedback:

- "I don't really like that outfit"

and being outright nasty:

- "You look like a horse in those clothes, you're a bitch!"

lazygal · 15-03-2016 05:44PM

There is of course. Constructive criticism should be taken on board, as we all do in the workplace.

I found GOMI through mommybloggers. After I had my first child I was alone at home a lot and none of my friends had kids so I was coming across a lot of online mommies who seemed to be having a way better time than I was, looked a whole lot better and seemed to have very aspirational lifestyles. Then a bit more reading led me to GOMI and I found out how monetised these 'perfect' parents were about their children and how much money they were making from blogging. I can see exactly the same type of thing creeping into Irish blogging now, down to the same phrases and freebies.

onthemitch · 15-03-2016 05:49PM

lazygal wrote: »

As for the idea that, “if you've nothing nice to say, say nothing at all”, unless you're seven years old, that no longer holds any sway. As humans, we are thoughtful, critical beings – and if you're making your living from appealing to the public, whether as a blogger or a reality TV star, you've got to expect your adoring public to speak up every now and again.

It doesn't mean we're trying to “shame” you; we're just not buying what you're selling. It's called customer feedback – and sometimes, it might be worth taking it on board.

http://www.independent.ie/style/voices/rosemary-maccabe-no-kim-its-not-slut-shaming-we-just-dont-like-you-34540696.html

Maybe the posters on GOMI aren't jealous? Maybe they're coming to the same conclusions as Rosemary?

If you can't see the difference between what I'm saying in that article – that not all criticism is "shaming" or "hate" – and what we can all see clearly is in that GOMI thread, then there's really no point in even continuing this discussion, is there?

This discussion has, so far, been interesting, but now it feels like it's becoming a weirdly facetious attempt to troll me using an article I wrote, in order to accuse me of simultaneously supporting people who would say the kinds of nasty things written on GOMI while also defending bloggers against all criticism.

Would you mind clarifying what your standpoint is, exactly?

I wasn't for one second saying that all critics are jealous – and I hate when that's rolled out as much as the next person. But those posters on GOMI, who are outright nasty and vindictive, admit that they read a blog of a person whose style and writing they hate, and have been just DYING for a forum via which to tear her to shreds. If that's not jealousy, what is it?

on_my_oe · 15-03-2016 05:54PM

I admit I struggle to understand why you would follow a blogger that you don't like, at least for months or years. I have been adding and removing bloggers, instagrammers, tweeters etc all the time from my accounts. I find people on recommendation or if I see an interesting post. Sometimes it is just a brief moment of brilliance and they get deleted quickly. Sometimes they are worth following long term and sometimes they suddenly turn to ****. I wouldn't follow someone long term when they're crap.

They released the top social media list for Ireland today, and I don't follow any of them
http://www.breakingnews.ie/showbiz/irelands-most-popular-social-media-stars-have-been-revealed-725367.html

I noted that the article said 68% of women would be likely to buy a product recommended by an influencer, so bloggers who are making recommendations have a big responsibility.

lazygal · 15-03-2016 05:57PM

onthemitch wrote: »

If you can't see the difference between what I'm saying in that article – that not all criticism is "shaming" or "hate" – and what we can all see clearly is in that GOMI thread, then there's really no point in even continuing this discussion, is there?

This discussion has, so far, been interesting, but now it feels like it's becoming a weirdly facetious attempt to troll me using an article I wrote, in order to accuse me of simultaneously supporting people who would say the kinds of nasty things written on GOMI while also defending bloggers against all criticism.

Would you mind clarifying what your standpoint is, exactly?

I wasn't for one second saying that all critics are jealous – and I hate when that's rolled out as much as the next person. But those posters on GOMI, who are outright nasty and vindictive, admit that they read a blog of a person whose style and writing they hate, and have been just DYING for a forum via which to tear her to shreds. If that's not jealousy, what is it?

I don't read GOMI because I'm jealous of anyone. If you read many threads on there you'll realise very quickly that many of the posters used to be fans of certain bloggers and then something changed.

Example-One blog I read a lot is LoveTaza, a mommy/lifestyle blog. Her thread can be nasty but many people used to like her blog until it turned into wall to wall sponsored posts and endless exploitation of her children's privacy. I can afford her aspirational product placement stuff like a Bugaboo Donkey or a JCrew coat, but I don't exploit my children to get that stuff for free.

That's not jealousy. That's a lot of people realising how shady blogging can be, where people are basically using their family as semi-permenant content generators and cash cows. It isn't shaming or hate to post on GOMI that maybe Taza/Naomi of LoveTaza should get a real job instead of plastering her children all over the internet for free stuff.

on_my_oe · 15-03-2016 05:58PM

SB_Part2 wrote: »

I think there's a huge difference though between giving feedback:

- "I don't really like that outfit"

and being outright nasty:

- "You look like a horse in those clothes, you're a bitch!"

I agree completely, and I try to stick to comments I would feel comfortable repeating to their faces if I met them. I doubt I would even say "I don't really like that outfit", I'd just unfollow.

karensgal · 15-03-2016 07:50PM

onthemitch wrote: »

Do you mean interesting, or do you mean disgusting? "Total scum"; "she has a total bitch face"; "she dresses like a Traveller."

Also the number of people saying: "I've been following her for years and think she's rubbish." Doesn't that say a LOT more about you than it does about her?! Pathetic.

THIS is why boards doesn't want us mentioning bloggers – because there are some jealous little b*tches who want to go online and make personal comments about people they don't know whose blogs they just can't resist following because why?!

I absolutely do not condone any talk of that kind. My motto is nothing nice to say, then say nothing at all. To me with bloggers it's all about personal taste and each to their own. If I no longer enjoy a particular blogger I will unfollow rather than be negative. The part I meant was interested was a comment made about a book and how to start a blog. I felt if true it was interesting. I probably should have clarified that in my original comment but as it's preferred not to mentioned bloggers I didn't want to be too specific. Sorry for the confusion!

dudara · 15-03-2016 08:37PM

I personally agree with the above approach. I follow lots of blogs via RSS feeds, Twitter and Instagram. I've followed many "lifestyle bloggers" who I then rapidly unfollowed as I found their posts/style not to my taste. Life's too short to spend looking at stuff I'm not interested in.

A blogger/twitter/Instagram reach and influence is dictated by the number of followers, so vote with your feet.

frogstar · 15-03-2016 08:51PM

dudara wrote: »

A blogger/twitter/Instagram reach and influence is dictated by the number of followers, so vote with your feet.

I've always wondered about this. I liked a few well known bloggers on facebook. As I don't interact I don't see the feed . I unfollowed a few too but still have a like , if you get me. So I'm still in their numbers

Looking at a couple of FB pages today, with 70k likes on page,the likes on posts are tiny. Eg one post recently has 24 likes, that s 0.03%. Another has 220k likes on page and a post has 24 likes too, 0.01%

Maybe that's just Facebook, instagram seems a little better, though not much.

I just wonder the actual value of all these likes and followers if they don't actually interact

I don't think the numbers give a true reflection of who actually sees the post. I'm sure there are proper way to check but I'm but I'm not clued in to how that works

meeeeh · 16-03-2016 12:18AM

lazygal wrote: »

That's not jealousy. That's a lot of people realising how shady blogging can be, where people are basically using their family as semi-permenant content generators and cash cows. It isn't shaming or hate to post on GOMI that maybe Taza/Naomi of LoveTaza should get a real job instead of plastering her children all over the internet for free stuff.

It might not be shaming but it's completely pointless. I have two kids and the first parenting blog I managed to come across is the one you mentioned. Because you mentioned it. She might get a few extra hits out of this discussion about what job she should have. It won't improve the lives of her kids, she will get some free publicity out of it and you will feel better for venting on some forum but really the only solution would be to stop following her.

The worst that can happen to bloggers is not being seen. And forums like GOMI are making sure that will never happen. Also I had a quick look there a while ago and a lot is just making fun out of some clearly vulnerable people. It truly provides valuable service, people don't need to throw stones anymore. It's a lot less messy.

krankykitty · 16-03-2016 09:21AM

onthemitch wrote: »

Do you mean interesting, or do you mean disgusting? "Total scum"; "she has a total bitch face"; "she dresses like a Traveller."

Also the number of people saying: "I've been following her for years and think she's rubbish." Doesn't that say a LOT more about you than it does about her?! Pathetic.

THIS is why boards doesn't want us mentioning bloggers – because there are some jealous little b*tches who want to go online and make personal comments about people they don't know whose blogs they just can't resist following because why?!

I believe Boards doesn't want us mentioning bloggers because they fear litigation, not because people are "jealous"

onthemitch · 16-03-2016 10:41AM

krankykitty wrote: »

I believe Boards doesn't want us mentioning bloggers because they fear litigation, not because people are "jealous"

Okay, to clarify for the final time:

I was talking about THAT specific GOMI thread, in which people were talking about bloggers they hate, yet still follow, and making incredibly bitchy remarks about them that seemed, to me, to stem purely from jealousy.

Boards doesn't want us mentioning bloggers because THE ODD person ends up making comments such as those in the GOMI thread: rude, unnecessary and, yes, often defamatory statements.

Now: can we all please move on?

retro:electro · 16-03-2016 11:22AM

onthemitch wrote: »

Okay, to clarify for the final time:

I was talking about THAT specific GOMI thread, in which people were talking about bloggers they hate, yet still follow, and making incredibly bitchy remarks about them that seemed, to me, to stem purely from jealousy.

Boards doesn't want us mentioning bloggers because THE ODD person ends up making comments such as those in the GOMI thread: rude, unnecessary and, yes, often defamatory statements.

Now: can we all please move on?

I don't agree with the comments on the GOMI thread I think some of them are disgraceful but I do not think that most of them stem from jealousy. Anyway you seem to be very uncomfortable when confronted with your comments so perhaps we should move on.

onthemitch · 16-03-2016 11:26AM

anna080 wrote: »

I don't agree with the comments on the GOMI thread I think some of them are disgraceful but I do not think that most of them stem from jealousy. Anyway you seem to be very uncomfortable when confronted with your comments so perhaps we should move on.

I'm uncomfortable with the insistence – over and over again – that I'm making a blanket statement about criticism stemming from jealousy, when that is not what I have EVER said. I have, in fact, stated on this and other threads and in the indo piece yesterday, that there does exist valid criticism that is not at all rooted in jealousy.

Those incredibly nasty GOMI comments are not, IMO, valid criticism, and I don't for the life of me see what could possibly motivate someone to actively follow someone else while also actively hating them and searching for an online forum in which to make the kinds of statements that popped up on GOMI. If not jealousy, what is it?

meeeeh · 16-03-2016 11:59AM

anna080 wrote: »

I don't agree with the comments on the GOMI thread I think some of them are disgraceful but I do not think that most of them stem from jealousy. Anyway you seem to be very uncomfortable when confronted with your comments so perhaps we should move on.

I didn't linger on Gomi but majority of stuff there is on the level with gossip, some more some less nasty. Jelousy often is the root of gossip. And that was present also here , as soon as someone is able to afford more than Penny's people start making negative comments about that.

I suspect that the problem boards have is not immediate lawsuit but as soon as someone mentions a name new members start crawling in from all directions and all they interested is discussion of that blogger. The are quite a few in this thread who contributed feck all but complain about not being able names. I am very sceptical that only thing they are worried about is well-being of vulnerable and young followers.

I don't follow Rosemary, neither do I agree with everything she does but I think quoting out of context and twisting everything she said in Indo article is pretty poor form. Frankly unless you want to misinterpret her words it's pretty clear what she wanted to say and it's not what is implied here.

anothernight · 16-03-2016 12:15PM

meeeeh wrote: »

I suspect that the problem boards have is not immediate lawsuit but as soon as someone mentions a name new members start crawling in from all directions and all they interested is discussion of that blogger. The are quite a few in this thread who contributed feck all but complain about not being able names. I am very sceptical that only thing they are worried about is well-being of vulnerable and young followers.

Any discussion in an online forum can descend to bickering and objectionable arguing. Just look at any thread about the dole. Plenty of single-issue users around, many bordering on trolls. Isn't that why we have moderators?

If you're right, and if they came out and said "guys, we're implementing a blanket ban because we can't cope with moderating this topic", I'd understand. As a user, I appreciate transparency.

bridgettedon · 16-03-2016 08:43PM

Has anyone read the make up monster latest post about blogging? I found it very interesting. It talks about how the blogger relies on users and also vice versa. As a user I want a blogger who I can trust. I also don't like others users complaining about she put this or that up on snapchat. First of all I don't have snapchat as it sounds like something I am not interested in so why can't others just unfollow. You are not going to like everything a blogger does, even if you are a fan. In fact a number of users have ruined threads on beauty bloggers because they insist on making personal comments. There is a vast difference between saying I don't like her style versus she dresses like a traveller (I know this is from another website). There are a few bloggers who have a questionable attitude to blogging and disclosures. But you what, there are plenty of businesses around who act in a similar fashion. I think in the end it will be the respectable bloggers who will stand the test of time.

The makeup monster talks about how blogging started as a fresh and new approach to make up reviews which is what drew me to bloggers. I love reading posts about products that are in my price range. It is definitely one of my favourite hobbies. My favourite bloggers are the ones who do state if something is a sample. It shows me that this person is being honest even though there is no legislation there to say they have to do it. It shows me that they care about who is reading the blog.

scarbouro · 16-03-2016 09:14PM

As previously discussed, most of us love bloggers who will give positive and negative feedback /reviews. There is no point in a blogger to only supply their followers with positive reviews all of the time and then shy away from saying something negative incase they won't be liked by companies ect.

I have gone a couple of times to one of my favourite MUA's workshops in the Westbury hotel and she is excellent at suggesting high end and low end budget products. Will take time to show her followers how to use the product correctly and where to purchase it. You can contact her any time and she will reply privately. This is the type of blogger I like. She doesn't only talk about make up, she's very versatile. She will also tell you if a product is not up to scratch.

I honestly wonder how long this "blogger phase" will last?! Surely it will dry up and people will get bored of it? Some bloggers true colours are shining through already and people will cop onto that. Reputation is everything in this game.

What do you want from a blog? [no names please]

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