Garda, nurses, teachers and doctor's pay

steddyeddy · 13-03-2016 05:30PM #1

The Luas driver's debate seems to bring up comparisons between the training involved and job difficulty and pay in the jobs in my title and the pay of Luas drivers.

I'm just wondering is there any job type that you think is overpaid or underpaid? I think the jobs in my title should be paid well as long as they're good at their job. I think carers and nurses should be paid more and I think hospital biochemists (the ones who test blood) should be paid a hell of a lot more (you can guarantee a strike will be in the works). Anyone else deserving of a pay rise?

purplecow1977 · 13-03-2016 05:34PM

It's difficult to judge at times. From the outside looking in, it's very easy to have a perception of something but that may not be accurate. To me, it appears that the Luas workers are looking for a bit too much - but then again, when negotiating, it's wise to start high and come to a natural compromise mid way. I don't think teachers need a payrise, but I do think that their post 2012 graduates should receive equal pay for equal work, and if all the cuts to resources and erosion of working conditions were restored, I'd be happy enough.

Redser87 · 13-03-2016 05:38PM

Definitely think FEMPI should be revoked to give equality of pay for post 2012 entrants.
Nurses don't get paid close to enough IMO. I also think that new Guards should be on much more than their starting salary.

13-03-2016 05:41PM

Most doctors are underpaid, especially in relation to the years and years of training and the appalling conditions they endure with the responsibility of peoples lives at stake. People forget that most doctors aren't consultants in private practice.

I know nothing about biochemists, guards or nurses pay, but nurses generally have great public support. Teachers seem well paid but contract work makes their jobs pretty insecure.

KomradeBishop · 13-03-2016 05:53PM

The place where there has been the most massive wage inflation, far beyond any other role, is in executive compensation.

Push up the wages of executives in one industry, it creates an upward push in executive wages elsewhere as well - it's something that really needs to be tackled, due to the perverse/corrupting incentives undue compensation like this can create.

Cue the "don't be criticising the high-income or wealthy!" comments.

steddyeddy · 13-03-2016 05:54PM

Candie wrote: »

Most doctors are underpaid, especially in relation to the years and years of training and the appalling conditions they endure with the responsibility of peoples lives at stake. People forget that most doctors aren't consultants in private practice.

I know nothing about biochemists, guards or nurses pay, but nurses generally have great public support. Teachers seem well paid but contract work makes their jobs pretty insecure.

I'm definitely not saying doctors are paid adequately. I think they should be paid a lot more and have more humane working hours put in place.

Tzardine · 13-03-2016 06:00PM

There are public service office cleaners being paid €800 per week. Thats crazy in my mind.

purplecow1977 · 13-03-2016 06:03PM

Tzardine wrote: »

There are public service office cleaners being paid €800 per week. Thats crazy in my mind.

As always with these kind of things, do you have a link to support this?

I also meant to add that even though it SEEMS the luas workers are looking for too much of an increase, I support employees' right to protect and improve their working conditions, and to engage in industrial action if needed.

spurious · 13-03-2016 06:05PM

A first year nurse, just qualified, starts off on a rate that is less than the cleaner on her ward.

Teachers in theory have an OK rate of pay, the problem is very few people manage to get jobs made up of full hours, so large numbers of them are only earning a fraction of it.

Tzardine · 13-03-2016 06:05PM

purplecow1977 wrote: »

As always with these kind of things, do you have a link to support this?

I also meant to add that even though it SEEMS the luas workers are looking for too much of an increase, I support employees' right to protect and improve their working conditions, and to engage in industrial action if needed.

As somebody that supervises them I can assure you its true. (they make more than me). . I will find something and edit this post later with it. On phone now.

MIKEKC · 13-03-2016 06:09PM

Redser87 wrote: »

Definitely think FEMPI should be revoked to give equality of pay for post 2012 entrants.
Nurses don't get paid close to enough IMO. I also think that new Guards should be on much more than their starting salary.

You say that new guards should be on much more than their starting salary, yet you don't say how much they are paid. Anyone joining guards know the salary and if unhappy shouldn't join. Also all guards work shift so this must be taken into account. Basic salary in this job means nothing.

stefanovich · 13-03-2016 06:25PM

MIKEKC wrote: »

You say that new guards should be on much more than their starting salary, yet you don't say how much they are paid. Anyone joining guards know the salary and if unhappy shouldn't join. Also all guards work shift so this must be taken into account. Basic salary in this job means nothing.

Realistically what kind of wage are they on? I would like to think they were starting on 40,000 or so rising to 80,000 with experience. I guess it is way less.

KatW4 · 13-03-2016 06:26PM

spurious wrote:

Teachers in theory have an OK rate of pay, the problem is very few people manage to get jobs made up of full hours, so large numbers of them are only earning a fraction of it.

I'm a teacher (primary) and I agree. I'm a sub so I don't have a permanent job and God knows when I will. I dont get paid over the summer either. I don't think I could support a family on my wages. The cuts in schools means I spend a good amount of my wages on resources in the classroom as well.

But I think some jobs deserve a pay rise, especially nurses. My mum has worked with adults with disabilities for nearly 20 years and her wages are lower than mine and I've only been working as a teacher for 4 years. Her job is way more demanding. People like her definitely deserve a pay rise too.

Roger Hassenforder · 13-03-2016 06:57PM

Tzardine wrote: »

There are public service office cleaners being paid €800 per week. Thats crazy in my mind.

I doubt it; They're probably contractors

Clonmel1000 · 13-03-2016 07:01PM

Tzardine wrote: »

There are public service office cleaners being paid €800 per week. Thats crazy in my mind.

Where? And how do I apply? Please back this up.

Arkady · 13-03-2016 07:02PM

Ireland is not competitive, average pay rates across all jobs, in all sectors, are much too high. Wealthy people will take their business and support of the mainstream political parties elsewhere, unless Irish workers cop on and responsibly pay the taxes/levies/charges and take less wages, instead of threatening to tax the wealthy in Ireland.

stefanovich · 13-03-2016 07:02PM

Clonmel1000 wrote: »

Where? And how do I apply? Please back this up.

800 before or after tax. If it is before tax then it's not huge.

Redser87 · 13-03-2016 07:03PM

New Gardaí start at just over 23,000. Granted this does not include overtime etc but it is still very low for a job that carries a lot of risk and anti social hours.http://www.garda.ie/Controller.aspx?Page=12252

Arkady · 13-03-2016 07:05PM

Redser87 wrote: »

New Gardaí start at just over 23,000. Granted this does not include overtime etc but it is still very low for a job that carries a lot of risk and anti social hours.http://www.garda.ie/Controller.aspx?Page=12252

A lot more than many other european police forces. They should count themselves lucky to have a job.
Ireland has to remain competitive.

quadrifoglio verde · 13-03-2016 07:10PM

Hospital pharmacists.
Their starting wage is 500 quid more than pharmacy technician starting off, for a job that entails a lot more work and responsibility than a technician

myshirt · 13-03-2016 07:13PM

I once had this debate with a few friends during a Manchester United match. A robust debate which nearly came to blows.

Wayne Rooney - the man is on £200k a week.
A nurse, £30k a year.
Where is the justice or sense in spending country economic wealth that way?

Very, very quickly I was corrected with a phrase that was to stick with me going forward and which I'd like you to remember also:
"Hang on here a second you prawn sandwich socialist.... when was the last time you seen a nurse belt a 30 yard absolute screamer into the top corner?
When she can do that, we'll pay her £200k a week, now f#ck off"

Rightwing · 13-03-2016 07:17PM

stefanovich wrote: »

Realistically what kind of wage are they on? I would like to think they were starting on 40,000 or so rising to 80,000 with experience. I guess it is way less.

Are you mad?

Very few careers start off that high.

Our public sector workers are extremely well looked after. Hence, the high demand for everything associated with the tag 'government job'.

myshirt · 13-03-2016 07:19PM

Redser87 wrote: »

New Gardaí start at just over 23,000. Granted this does not include overtime etc but it is still very low for a job that carries a lot of risk and anti social hours.http://www.garda.ie/Controller.aspx?Page=12252

They get the bulk of their rent sorted for them if they are in Dublin also. Always did.

The Moldy Gowl · 13-03-2016 07:20PM

myshirt wrote: »

I once had this debate with a few friends during a Manchester United match. A robust debate which nearly came to blows.

Wayne Rooney - the man is on £200k a week.
A nurse, £30k a year.
Where is the justice or sense in spending country economic wealth that way?

Very, very quickly I was corrected with a phrase that was to stick with me going forward and which I'd like you to remember also:
"Hang on here a second you prawn sandwich socialist.... when was the last time you seen a nurse belt a 30 yard absolute screamer into the top corner?
When she can do that, we'll pay her £200k a week, now f#ck off"

It's a stupid argument. That's why.

deseil · 13-03-2016 07:24PM

Tzardine wrote: »

There are public service office cleaners being paid €800 per week. Thats crazy in my mind.

No there is not! Unless they are working some serious overtime!!

Yourmama · 13-03-2016 07:40PM

stefanovich wrote:

800 before or after tax. If it is before tax then it's not huge.

for unskilled job? yes, it is huge, even before tax.

Stealthfins · 13-03-2016 07:47PM

Tzardine wrote:

There are public service office cleaners being paid â‚¬800 per week. Thats crazy in my mind.

They are probably there years and an accumulation of increments over 15 years would bring them to the top of their scale.

Negative_G · 13-03-2016 07:48PM

myshirt wrote: »

I once had this debate with a few friends during a Manchester United match. A robust debate which nearly came to blows.

Wayne Rooney - the man is on £200k a week.
A nurse, £30k a year.
Where is the justice or sense in spending country economic wealth that way?

Very, very quickly I was corrected with a phrase that was to stick with me going forward and which I'd like you to remember also:
"Hang on here a second you prawn sandwich socialist.... when was the last time you seen a nurse belt a 30 yard absolute screamer into the top corner?
When she can do that, we'll pay her £200k a week, now f#ck off"

Your 'friends' are idiots.

Tzardine · 13-03-2016 08:07PM

Stealthfins wrote: »

They are probably there years and an accumulation of increments over 15 years would bring them to the top of their scale.

That is correct.

To answer somebody else, to 800 per week before tax, but I would consider a cleaner earning above 40k pretty high.

Olishi4 · 13-03-2016 08:12PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

I'm definitely not saying doctors are paid adequately. I think they should be paid a lot more and have more humane working hours put in place.

Agree with less working hours. If you are talking about Ireland, consultants in 2013 earned average of 170000, earning alot more than most other European countries. In Italy, 71000, Spain 65000 as a comparison.

In Ireland, we also rely heavily on trainee junior doctors for patient care who are still in the process of training yet some are already at specialist levels of pay. Nearly all work over time. One doctor earned 150000 in over time plus about 60000 basic in 2013. That year the tax payer paid 165 million in overtime to trainees.

Relying too much on trainees and paying time and a half and double time is a safety issue not just a cost to the tax payer. But in relation to the thread, overtime and how it is calculated and basic junior payment is higher than UK.

Excessive OT should be reduced with more fully trained consultants taking on the bulk of the work.

A lot of trainees are trained only to emigrate as soon as they are qualified which is a huge loss to the tax payer. Not sure if anything has been put in place in the last few years to ensure that once qualified, they should be required to spend some time in the state system when training is complete.

gazzer · 13-03-2016 08:13PM

Tzardine wrote: »

There are public service office cleaners being paid €800 per week. Thats crazy in my mind.

I sincerely doubt that considering that Clerical Officers in the Public Service are on €420 euro a week before deductions

Garda, nurses, teachers and doctor's pay

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