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Nelson's Pillar

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Comments

  • #572
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 4,896 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    maryishere wrote: »
    at least when Isis blow up historic monuments, they usually make sure no innocent civilians are nearby.

    The sense of reassurance I'm feeling right now after reading that is incredible.


  • #573
    TheHillOfDoom
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 794 ✭✭✭TheHillOfDoom


    maryishere wrote: »
    No I do not listen to him, but I was chatting to someone who did hear him and another commentator on the radio. What other regime, in the past 50 years, apart from some dissident IRA and ISES would blow up ancient historical monuments because they do not agree with them?

    Put it this way Mary. If you and I were neighbours, and you planted a gnome on my doorstep, I'd drop-kick it out of my garden.


  • #574
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,094 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    maryishere wrote: »
    if your friends the Nazis had succeeded in their Operation Sea

    More abject historical ignorance from the John Bull school of British revisionism. As a matter of historical fact, your beloved British state collaborated with Nazi Germany for no fewer than 6 years before it finally decided to stand up to it in September 1939 - i.e. long after the establishment of concentration camps, Nuremberg Laws, Kristallnacht, numerous invasions... and following extensive trade agreements where the British state profited extensively from supporting the Nazi state regardless of its victims. Not to mention, of course, the large number of British aristocrats who supported the Nazis, the Free British Corps or the 20,000 British nationalists who volunteered to help the Nazis "police" the Sudetenland in 1938 in a recruiment campaign organised by no less than the [Royal] British Legion, the organisers of the poppy glorifications these days.

    And you think you can come in here and try to get morally superior with the Irish over the three IRA members (one of whom was a hero of the socialist side in the Spanish Civil War) who attempted to make links with Nazi Germany at a time when the Irish living under British occupation in the Six Counties didn't even have one person-one vote? Get up the yard, son.


  • #575
    buried
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,980 ✭✭✭buried


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    you Oliver Cromwell, the blood thirsty republican willing to murder innocent people in the name of his country?

    I thought he'd be a hero to some on here.

    What country was that Fred?

    Bullet The Blue Shirts



  • #576
    Disgruntled Badger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 182 ✭✭Disgruntled Badger


    I imagine if I went into town and blew up The Spire on the basis it represents post imperial revisionist art I'd be treated as a hero too, and then a long stretch in 'The Joy'. People in the 60s weren't half muppets!


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  • #577
    donegaLroad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,379 ✭✭✭donegaLroad


    130Kph wrote: »
    There was an ex-taxi driver on Liveline today who was so close to the explosion that he drove over rubble before he figured out what was going on. Its pure luck he wasn’t killed or crushed.

    Sutcliffe, being the typical standard of reckless, “classy” “republican” that we have come to expect, i.e. who is indifferent to their fellow countrymen’s life & limb, said: he didn’t believe this man’s story.

    Almost killed him then, calling him a liar now 50 years later :(

    The ex-taxi man refused to entertain any exchange with Sutcliffe despite Duffy’s usual repeated entreaties for him to do so.

    It was a taxi man's sister that I heard interviewed.. did the taxi man come on liveline after his sister was on?


  • #578
    A Dub in Glasgo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,414 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    Disgruntled Badger wrote: »
    I imagine if I went into town and blew up The Spire on the basis it represents post imperial revisionist art I'd be treated as a hero too, and then a long stretch in 'The Joy'. People in the 60s weren't half muppets!

    Yeah, it is exactly like that.... gold medal for you


  • #579
    TheHillOfDoom
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 794 ✭✭✭TheHillOfDoom


    donegaLroad wrote: »
    It was a taxi man's sister that I heard interviewed.. did the taxi man come on liveline after his sister was on?

    Yes, the 'almost died' 'could have been killed' taxi driver came on from Americay.


  • #580
    My name is URL
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,548 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    I wonder if Fred and Mary and their merry band of monument enthusiasts get so upset whenever the statue of Sean Russell get's damaged and vandalised, which happens on an almost annual basis.

    I'm thinking not?


  • #581
    buried
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,980 ✭✭✭buried


    Mary loves them old historical buildings and monuments, but strangely has nothing to say about the bombing and shelling of ancient Irish buildings and schools. The same schools that housed Europe's first scholars that literally brought civilisation to Europe. Irish scholars. Irish scholars that went over to the island of Britain and literally taught the people there how to get out of the ditches, trees, caves and learn how to read. We should'nt have bothered our arse.

    Bullet The Blue Shirts



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  • #582
    130Kph
    Closed Accounts Posts: 625 ✭✭✭130Kph


    donegaLroad wrote: »
    It was a taxi man's sister that I heard interviewed.. did the taxi man come on liveline after his sister was on?

    I didn’t realise she was his sister, but the taxi driver (living in the US now) was on at the very end of the show.


  • #583
    maryishere
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,549 ✭✭✭maryishere


    buried wrote: »
    Mary loves them old historical buildings and monuments, but strangely has nothing to say about the bombing and shelling of ancient Irish buildings and schools. The same schools that housed Europe's first scholars that literally brought civilisation to Europe. ........ We should'nt have bothered our arse.
    You are right. Those nasty dastardly Brits with this high explosives and mortars and guns destroying our ancient schools, that brought civilization to Europe and even educated our builders who helped the Romans build de Collessium.
    We should'nt have bothered our arse. We should have left the ancient Greeks work out how to build the Parthenon by themselves. Burn everything British but their coal.
    130Kph wrote: »
    I didn’t realise she was his sister, but the taxi driver (living in the US now) was on at the very end of the show.
    Lucky man to be alive? What was the gist of what he had to say?
    My name is URL wrote: »
    I wonder if Fred and Mary and their merry band of monument enthusiasts get so upset whenever the statue of Sean Russell get's damaged and vandalised
    Sean who? No vandalism can be condoned.


  • #584
    Junkyard Tom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,115 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    The thread has taken a very disturbing turn. Cromwell, the IRA, Nelson's Pillar, ISIS, the slave trade, I mean, you can kinda try to psychologically process these factors of the discussion but people listening to the insufferable Joe Duffy?

    What is wrong with you people?


  • #585
    buried
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,980 ✭✭✭buried


    maryishere wrote: »
    You are right. Those nasty dastardly Brits with this high explosives and mortars and guns destroying our ancient schools, that brought civilization to Europe and even educated our builders who helped the Romans build de Collessium.
    We should'nt have bothered our arse. We should have left the ancient Greeks work out how to build the Parthenon by themselves. Burn everything British but their coal.

    You really, really hate your own country don't you? Can't see any good in it at all can you? Don't even know its own history, you don't even want to know. Feel sorry for you, I truly do

    Bullet The Blue Shirts



  • #586
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Nodin wrote: »
    ....not the "what question" routine again.....

    On ye go - ye have the chance to be the first to answer it.....
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=98994055&postcount=519

    As I said at the time Nodin, you're the expert or rather I presume you are as you never stop talking about it.


  • #587
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    More abject historical ignorance from the John Bull school of British revisionism. As a matter of historical fact, your beloved British state collaborated with Nazi Germany for no fewer than 6 years before it finally decided to stand up to it in September 1939 - i.e. long after the establishment of concentration camps, Nuremberg Laws, Kristallnacht, numerous invasions... and following extensive trade agreements where the British state profited extensively from supporting the Nazi state regardless of its victims. Not to mention, of course, the large number of British aristocrats who supported the Nazis, the Free British Corps or the 20,000 British nationalists who volunteered to help the Nazis "police" the Sudetenland in 1938 in a recruiment campaign organised by no less than the [Royal] British Legion, the organisers of the poppy glorifications these days.

    And you think you can come in here and try to get morally superior with the Irish over the three IRA members (one of whom was a hero of the socialist side in the Spanish Civil War) who attempted to make links with Nazi Germany at a time when the Irish living under British occupation in the Six Counties didn't even have one person-one vote? Get up the yard, son.

    You should brush up on what happens to people in glass houses who throw stones.


  • #588
    130Kph
    Closed Accounts Posts: 625 ✭✭✭130Kph


    maryishere wrote: »
    Lucky man to be alive? What was the gist of what he had to say?

    He said he wasn’t injured (which was a pure fluke). It turned out he was the closest person to the blast (I wonder if the troll upthread would be so flippant if one of their close relatives was that close to a bomb).

    He said Sutcliffe was the last person he wanted to listen to and

    “I frankly want nothing to do with him”

    “I don’t want to hear about him, I don’t want to talk about him. I don’t want to talk to him.”


  • #589
    Strazdas
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,102 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    The bombing of Nelson's Pillar was an act of gross vandalism by a bunch of extremists / fanatics. They had no right to do it seeing as the statue was popular with most Dubliners.

    These clowns must have been incredibly insecure in their sense of Irishness and dissatisfied with the independence of the Irish state in 1966 if they felt threatened by a 150 year old monument.


  • #590
    TheHillOfDoom
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 794 ✭✭✭TheHillOfDoom


    130Kph wrote: »
    He said he wasn’t injured (which was a pure fluke). It turned out he was the closest person to the blast (I wonder if the troll upthread would be so flippant if one of their close relatives was that close to a bomb).

    He said Sutcliffe was the last person he wanted to listen to and

    “I frankly want nothing to do with him”

    “I don’t want to hear about him, I don’t want to talk about him. I don’t want to talk to him.”

    Did you just go and call me a troll?


  • #591
    My name is URL
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,548 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    Strazdas wrote: »
    They had no right to do it seeing as the statue was popular with most Dubliners.

    Source for that?
    In 1923 the Dublin Citizens Association voted for its removal.

    In 1925 the Dublin Civic Survey said the site was quite unsuitable, and there should be legislation to permit its removal.

    The Dublin Metropolitan Police Association also wanted it moved.

    When Dublin Corporation voted in favour of removing the pillar in 1931 it declared it 'a shame that the English hero, and adulterer, held pride of place in the capital city while there was still no statue to Tone, or Brian Boru or Patrick Sarsfield.'

    In 1955, the Corporation formally requested the permission of the trustees to remove the statue of Nelson from the pillar. (It wanted to replace Nelson with a statue of Wolfe Tone). The trustees replied that the terms of the trusteeship meant they could not do that.

    The city council declared that it was intolerable that such a public monument should remain in private hands, and demanded that there should be legislation to enable the council to remove or demolish it.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nelson%27s_Pillar

    That change in legislation was made after it was targeted. Only then did the government act on the wishes of it's people and councils.


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  • #592
    TheHillOfDoom
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 794 ✭✭✭TheHillOfDoom


    130Kph wrote: »
    He said he wasn’t injured (which was a pure fluke). It turned out he was the closest person to the blast (I wonder if the troll upthread would be so flippant if one of their close relatives was that close to a bomb).

    He said Sutcliffe was the last person he wanted to listen to and

    “I frankly want nothing to do with him”

    “I don’t want to hear about him, I don’t want to talk about him. I don’t want to talk to him.”

    In fact, my aunt was working in the civil service and usually walked home via Talbot Street. On the evening of the Talbot Street bomb, she had a date and walked a different way! So yes, I know about relatives narrowly escaping death and/or injury.


  • #593
    maryishere
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,549 ✭✭✭maryishere


    buried wrote: »
    You really, really hate your own country don't you?

    No, I love it. Nelsons Pillar was part of Dublins history though. 400 Dubliners served with Nelson. You should not wish to airbrush away parts of history you may disagree with. Nelsons Pillar was designed by an Irishman. You think its ok that some IRA man thought it ok to blow it up, risking lives? And for what? To have it replaced by the present ugly spike which was desihned by an Englishman, which was very expensive and which cannot even be used as a viewing platform?
    buried wrote: »

    Don't even know its own history, you don't even want to know.
    I know history. You do not have to admire the IRA to know history.


  • #594
    Dyr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    130Kph wrote: »
    He said he wasn’t injured (which was a pure fluke). It turned out he was the closest person to the blast (I wonder if the troll upthread would be so flippant if one of their close relatives was that close to a bomb).

    He said Sutcliffe was the last person he wanted to listen to and

    “I frankly want nothing to do with him”

    “I don’t want to hear about him, I don’t want to talk about him. I don’t want to talk to him.”

    No-one killed, no-one injured. It's an amazing fluke of such flukeyness that you'd have to wonder was it a fluke at all.

    Lots of stories from lads about something that happened 50 years ago that they've been telling for 50 years.


  • #595
    Strazdas
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,102 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    My name is URL wrote: »
    Source for that?

    Anectdotally it's said that most, if not all, Dubliners had been up Nelson's Pillar and had looked out over the city from it's viewing platform.....certainly anyone I've ever spoken to of that generation has told me they had done so. If they had any moral objection to it's presence on O'Connell Street, you would imagine they would have boycotted it.

    It would be like someone claiming these days that most Dubliners despise the Wellington Monument in Phoenix Park and would celebrate if it was blown up.


  • #596
    buried
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,980 ✭✭✭buried


    maryishere wrote: »
    I know history. You do not have to admire the IRA to know history.

    You know nothing of Irish history. You choose to pathetically ridicule your own ancient countrymen that brought Europe out of the dark ages. You showed your true colours with that statement.

    Bullet The Blue Shirts



  • #597
    TheHillOfDoom
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 794 ✭✭✭TheHillOfDoom


    Strazdas wrote: »
    Anectdotally it's said that most, if not all, Dubliners had been up Nelson's Pillar and had looked out over the city from it's viewing platform.....certainly anyone I've ever spoken to of that generation has told me they had done so. If they had any moral objection to it's presence on O'Connell Street, you would imagine they would have boycotted it.

    It would be like someone claiming these days that most Dubliners despise the Wellington Monument in Phoenix Park and would celebrate if it was blown up.

    If you've no other way of getting up a ladder than climbing the ladder the British imposed, then yeah, you climb the ladder. That's the point really.


  • #598
    maryishere
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,549 ✭✭✭maryishere


    buried wrote: »
    You know nothing of Irish history.
    I know more than you
    .
    buried wrote: »
    You choose to pathetically ridicule your own ancient countrymen that brought Europe out of the dark ages.
    No, I ridiculed your pathetic statement, big difference.


    From Liveline today:
    Stephen Maughan was a taxi driver the night the pillar was blown up and was directly next to it when it detonated.
    Now living in North Carolina, in the United States he told Liveline that he had been described as the “luckiest man to be alive in Dublin, in the Irish Independent the next morning”.
    “The explosion went off above me, it blew a circle of flame around the pillar it started raining down pieces of the pillar and I got thrown around I drove over the pieces of granite.
    “It was a carpet of one tonne or more rocks that came down – I was very lucky I got through,” he explained.


  • #599
    TheHillOfDoom
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 794 ✭✭✭TheHillOfDoom


    maryishere wrote: »
    I know more than you
    .

    No, I ridiculed your pathetic statement, big difference.


    From Liveline today:
    Stephen Maughan was a taxi driver the night the pillar was blown up and was directly next to it when it detonated.
    Now living in North Carolina, in the United States he told Liveline that he had been described as the “luckiest man to be alive in Dublin, in the Irish Independent the next morning”.
    “The explosion went off above me, it blew a circle of flame around the pillar it started raining down pieces of the pillar and I got thrown around I drove over the pieces of granite.
    “It was a carpet of one tonne or more rocks that came down – I was very lucky I got through,” he explained.

    He lived to tell the tale. Isis victims tell the tale before they are unceremoniously beheaded. Please don't ever conflate the two. It is extremely insulting to put ISIS into a sentence with ANYTHING.


  • #600
    buried
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,980 ✭✭✭buried


    maryishere wrote: »
    I know more than you

    lol Course you do Mary! You know it all

    Bullet The Blue Shirts



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  • #601
    My name is URL
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,548 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    Strazdas wrote: »
    Anectdotally it's said

    I'll leave the anecdotes to yourself and Mary

    I think most right minded folks would see recorded history and official documents to trump that stuff.

    In any event, the statue on top of the column should have been moved and replaced by one that the people actually wanted.

    It's unfortunate that the column itself was damaged in the process of carrying out what the council, people and various organisations had wanted for so long but there you go. If the government had acted earlier and taken control from trustees and handed it to the public, it wouldn't have been the case.


This discussion has been closed.
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