Getting the dole while studying, what happens if you get caught?

PhoenixParker · 08-03-2016 09:23AM

I started a PhD on the 20th October one year, a few weeks later I got a letter from the dole asking why I had claimed from September 1st (start of term) to mid October*. They were looking for repayment.

They will catch you and it doesn't take long.

*Trinity report all students as starting from the first day of term regardless of when they actually interview (31st August), get an offer (30th September) or start. Took me quite a while to persuade them to write a letter on my behalf. Should have run away then.

Keane2baMused · 08-03-2016 09:34AM

If you do a H dip in any discipline or a Professional Masters in Education you can qualify for back to education allowance.

Don't take the risk, they will find out, they always do!

beach_walker · 08-03-2016 09:36AM

I know a lad who got caught. All that happened was he had to pay it back. Still, I wouldn't risk it tbh.

Martypants1 · 08-03-2016 09:37AM

You'd probably fail the exam because you didn't study enough.

RayM · 08-03-2016 09:39AM

If you can do your master's part-time, you might be eligible to continue receiving a payment, as long as you continue to satisfy the usual criteria (available for and looking for employment, etc). Maybe go and speak to someone at your local social welfare office and see what your options are.

http://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/Back-to-Education---Part-Time-Education-Option.aspx#cours

ancapailldorcha · 08-03-2016 10:19AM

Richard Hillman wrote: »

SNIP

Please do not advocate illegal activity here.

Mickeroo · 08-03-2016 10:25AM

I got a loan to do mine, they let me just pay interest for the year I was studying. If it was like the masters I did and there's no classes for the last three months, just a dissertation to do off your own back, then you can sign on while doing the dissertation provided you're looking for work.

hidinginthebush · 08-03-2016 10:25AM

Have you tried looking at a springboard course?

They're free courses for people on the dole. If you have a degree in an area, you should be able to apply for a masters in that area.

https://www.springboardcourses.ie/

Mickeroo · 08-03-2016 10:28AM

There were also certain masters you could do while getting the BTEA when I did one btw, this was two years ago so they might still be available. They were mostly IT based ones.

AnonoBoy · 08-03-2016 10:29AM

Arturo Breezy Mousetrap wrote: »

The colleges take your pps number when enrolling which is passed onto social welfare to prevent students signing on while studying.

This. You'll get away with it for a few months tops but they run checks a few times a year.

There's no way to get away with it these days.

SEPT 23 1989 · 08-03-2016 10:47AM

Self doubt has no place in the fraud game

08-03-2016 10:49AM

Springboard?

08-03-2016 10:50AM

If you are unemployed, you may want to continue your education or take part in a training course to develop your skills and improve your chances of getting back to work.

Springboard provides free higher education courses for people who are unemployed. Most Springboard courses are part-time, but there is an increasing number of full-time courses available to certain participants.

If Springboard doesn’t meet your needs, there are several other ways to go back to education.

illdoit2morrow · 08-03-2016 10:53AM

I was in a similar situation to OP back in 2003.

I attended college full-time while on the dole unaware that I should not have been signing on, silly I know but that's what happened at the time.

When I started working after completing the course I got a letter from Social Welfare stating that they believed I shouldn't have been eligible for dole for the previous two years. They laid it out for me in a meeting with a social welfare officer. In fairness the guy was quite understanding and he explained my options. The jist of the options were 'you were found out, repay the monies owed and nothing more will become of this' or 'you were found out, if you don't repay, this will become a legal matter'.

As I was in a situation to pay, I went for option 1. The repayment terms were up to me and there was no penalty. It took me approx. four years to make the repayments.

Rob Thomas · 08-03-2016 10:57AM

mariaalice wrote: »

If you are unemployed, you may want to continue your education or take part in a training course to develop your skills and improve your chances of getting back to work.

Springboard provides free higher education courses for people who are unemployed. Most Springboard courses are part-time, but there is an increasing number of full-time courses available to certain participants.

If Springboard doesn’t meet your needs, there are several other ways to go back to education.

Two friends of mine, who lost their businesses in the recession, have completely changed careers thanks to Springboard, doing courses they could never have been able to do, all the way to Masters level. Its worth a shot. And they kept their payments while doing them full time.

But, OP, you seem to have yourself convinced that the only way you will get work is with this Masters - unfortunately if you have not managed to get work without it for (it seems) quite some time, you are either looking in the wrong areas or not best representing yourself in your applications for work.

But don't cheat the dole - whatever about the morality etc, (thats up to you frankly) - you will get caught. Its well known that they use PPS numbers to chase down students.

andekwarhola · 08-03-2016 10:58AM

Check the Back To Education rules fully. I got it for some of my degree and then was able to claim it when doing a masters (IT) but that was quite a while ago.

Disregard the rivers of sanctimony you're getting here. Just delve through for the actual advice and good luck.

08-03-2016 10:59AM

illdoit2morrow wrote: »

I was in a similar situation to OP back in 2003.

I attended college full-time while on the dole unaware that I should not have been signing on, silly I know but that's what happened at the time.

When I started working after completing the course I got a letter from Social Welfare stating that they believed I shouldn't have been eligible for dole for the previous two years. They laid it out for me in a meeting with a social welfare officer. In fairness the guy was quite understanding and he explained my options. The jist of the options were 'you were found out, repay the monies owed and nothing more will become of this' or 'you were found out, if you don't repay, this will become a legal matter'.

As I was in a situation to pay, I went for option 1. The repayment terms were up to me and there was no penalty. It took me approx. four years to make the repayments.

And that was at a time when things in Revenue, Social protection etc. were far more...relaxed.

Cool_CM · 08-03-2016 11:03AM

Have you checked the university that you'll be applying for to see if they offer any scholarships for the Master's that you want to do?
I took out a loan for my Master's (which I am still paying back) and worked part time. It was an extremely challenging year, but more than worth it in the long term.

Also, have you looked into giving grinds for an extra few bob?

allibastor · 08-03-2016 11:09AM

Talula123 wrote: »

I want to do my masters degree but I can't afford it even with contribution fees and tax revenue to help to help cover fees its a pipe dream for me.
The economic crash happened when I had just started college, at that stage there was still funding for postgrad courses but by the time I got my BA degree doing a masters was out of reach financially, I havnt been able to find any work in years and most career jobs these days require a masters degree, im thinking the only way I can manage it financially is if I just stay on the dole and don't tell them im in full time education. I know it's a high risk and ive never done anything like that before.
Working part time wouldnt support me as rent is so high and thats if I was lucky enough to even find part time work. Im in my late 20's and I have very little work experiance due to not being able to gain employment.

So what happens if you do get caught out it? is it likely that I would be caught?

Yes.

Your PPS number is stored on college database and once every few months a transfer is made to the DSP.
If your details flag up you are cought and will have to repay everything.

08-03-2016 11:18AM

Is there a risk of doubling down on this and ending up back in the same situation.

I would consider springboard and/or jobbridge first.

Tsipras · 08-03-2016 12:29PM

I have 2 friends who did this - One never got caught, he was doing an Undergrad course as a mature student, the other one did a 1 year postgrad and got caught after about 6 months, they had to pay back the dole (100 euro a month or something like that ), but they think they DEFINITELY made the right decision anyway because they got decent jobs after finishing their course and could pay the money back - as opposed to being stuck on the dole indefinitely.. I think they were 100% right to do it- now they're not a drain on social welfare and actually paying tax! (The postgrad course was an IT course by the way)..

steddyeddy · 08-03-2016 12:33PM

As I said previously I worked with foster kids who went to college with no parental support and only got the grant. One or two of them illegally got the dole. There are plenty of ways around it. Don't feel guilty if you really need it.

08-03-2016 12:42PM

Talula123 wrote: »

I want to do my masters degree but I can't afford it even with contribution fees and tax revenue to help to help cover fees its a pipe dream for me.
The economic crash happened when I had just started college, at that stage there was still funding for postgrad courses but by the time I got my BA degree doing a masters was out of reach financially, I havnt been able to find any work in years and most career jobs these days require a masters degree, im thinking the only way I can manage it financially is if I just stay on the dole and don't tell them im in full time education. I know it's a high risk and ive never done anything like that before.
Working part time wouldnt support me as rent is so high and thats if I was lucky enough to even find part time work. Im in my late 20's and I have very little work experiance due to not being able to gain employment.

So what happens if you do get caught out it? is it likely that I would be caught?

Maybe you need a bit of career guidance before you do anything, it is a bit unusual for someone one of your age and qualification to have little to know work experience, have you ever had any sort of job?

Masala · 08-03-2016 01:07PM

Mr.S wrote: »

Get a loan.

Do any of the Banks do a good loan for something like this??? I suppose a loan with a 2 yr deferment of repayments is the ideal loan... is there such a thing out there???

Capt'n Midnight · 08-03-2016 08:11PM

Regarding not drawing attention to yourself,

My favourite dole cheat story has to be the actress who was an extra on corrie.

Iwasfrozen · 08-03-2016 08:14PM

If you're caught you repay everything and get a nice criminal conviction to boot.

Harpy · 08-03-2016 08:19PM

Talula123 wrote: »

Ive applied to cafes, restaurants, shops, supermarkets, receptionist jobs, dunnes, pennies, clubs, supermacs, kfc, bars everything. The only interview i got was for a CE scheme a year ago.

Have you looked into springboard courses? Your still entitled to your dole while doing them and there's some really good courses post grad ones and diplomas and higher certs aot of colleges do them...did one and got a job out of it

PlainP · 08-03-2016 08:25PM

I know someone who was caught. They were made pay it back. No criminal record or anything!

Has a great job now although nothing to do with the course they were on when caught.

08-03-2016 08:40PM

PlainP wrote: »

I know someone who was caught. They were made pay it back. No criminal record or anything!

Has a great job now although nothing to do with the course they were on when caught.

I presume the chance of a criminal record depends greatly on the ability to repay when caught.

I know fellows who were caught working and claiming. They owed thousands and were summonsed, even though they were paying weekly amounts back. There may be a different thinking for other defrauding, but it certainly may result in a criminal conviction.

dublinman1990 · 08-03-2016 09:32PM

Here is a link for you on applying for the BTEA.

http://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/BTEA-Frequently-Asked-Questions.aspx#q11

Getting the dole while studying, what happens if you get caught?

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