Getting the dole while studying, what happens if you get caught?

Talula123

I want to do my masters degree but I can't afford it even with contribution fees and tax revenue to help to help cover fees its a pipe dream for me.
The economic crash happened when I had just started college, at that stage there was still funding for postgrad courses but by the time I got my BA degree doing a masters was out of reach financially, I havnt been able to find any work in years and most career jobs these days require a masters degree, im thinking the only way I can manage it financially is if I just stay on the dole and don't tell them im in full time education. I know it's a high risk and ive never done anything like that before.
Working part time wouldnt support me as rent is so high and thats if I was lucky enough to even find part time work. Im in my late 20's and I have very little work experiance due to not being able to gain employment.

So what happens if you do get caught out it? is it likely that I would be caught?

colossus-x

You were fine till you posted here. Boards has you IP address and you can expect to have a knock on the door by the end of the week.

Talula123

colossus-x wrote: »

You were fine till you posted here. Boards has you IP address and you can expect to have a knock on the door by the end of the week.

im not studying anything nor have i even applied to college, im just asking a question

XR3i

burn down the library

LionelNashe

Talula123 wrote: »

I want to do my masters degree but I can't afford it even with contribution fees and tax revenue to help to help cover fees its a pipe dream for me.
The economic crash happened when I had just started college, at that stage there was still funding for postgrad courses but by the time I got my BA degree doing a masters was out of reach financially, I havnt been able to find any work in years and most career jobs these days require a masters degree, im thinking the only way I can manage it financially is if I just stay on the dole and don't tell them im in full time education. I know it's a high risk and ive never done anything like that before.
Working part time wouldnt support me as rent is so high and thats if I was lucky enough to even find part time work. Im in my late 20's and I have very little work experiance due to not being able to gain employment.

So what happens if you do get caught out it? is it likely that I would be caught?

I don't know, but don't forget to look at the benefits and not just the risks. There's no point in taking the risk if the masters doesn't lead to a job, so you have to be certain that a masters is really going to make a difference. If the problem is actually with your CV, for example, then it would be better to fix the CV, get a job, and do a masters part time if you still want to.

Talula123

LionelNashe wrote: »

I don't know, but don't forget to look at the benefits and not just the risks. There's no point in taking the risk if the masters doesn't lead to a job, so you have to be certain that a masters is really going to make a difference. If the problem is actually with your CV, for example, then it would be better to fix the CV, get a job, and do a masters part time if you still want to.

Originally I was going to do a teacher training course for art teaching but i know so many people who had to go back to college as they couldnt get teaching jobs so im changing direction a bit. Im sure this masters will gain me employment, I can even work privately with it.
I did a jobs course last year to try and help with my CV, they said it was fine, ive been into intero and everything, no hope.

Talula123

LionelNashe wrote: »

I don't know, but don't forget to look at the benefits and not just the risks. There's no point in taking the risk if the masters doesn't lead to a job, so you have to be certain that a masters is really going to make a difference. If the problem is actually with your CV, for example, then it would be better to fix the CV, get a job, and do a masters part time if you still want to.

Originally I was going to do a teacher training course for art teaching but i know so many people who had to go back to college as they couldnt get teaching jobs so im changing direction a bit and hoping to do a masters in something else. Im sure this masters will gain me employment, I can even work privately with it.
I did a jobs course last year to try and help with my CV, they said it was fine, ive been into intero and everything, no hope.

Cupcake_Crisis

Have you looked into the back to education allowance? I'd you get caught you'll be made to pay it all back.

Talula123

Cupcake_Crisis wrote: »

Have you looked into the back to education allowance? I'd you get caught you'll be made to pay it all back.

I did i've been trying to find other options but you can't get back to education for postgrad courses

iamstop

I went back as a mature student. Did the first year with savings and a loan from my Da. The second year I applied for a course through some gov scheme that I thought allowed me to still collect the dole. Here is the rub, because I didn't collect dole when I was doing year one I was only collecting after it, so for a summer, I was 2-3 months into the course and was told I couldn't get my dole AND stay in the course. Reason was cos I wasn't on the dole long enough!
So what I did was I wrote a letter to the dole people explaining the whole story. I expected it to take a few weeks but within 2 days or so I got a call asking a few basic questions about the course and about myself. Later that day got another call to say I could keep my benefits.
Letters do work sometimes!

Elmo

Talula123 wrote: »

I did i've been trying to find other options but you can't get back to education for postgrad courses

Can you get SUSI? https://susi.ie/eligibility/postgraduate-student/

If you are caught they will get you to repay.

Talula123

iamstop wrote: »

I went back as a mature student. Did the first year with savings and a loan from my Da. The second year I applied for a course through some gov scheme that I thought allowed me to still collect the dole. Here is the rub, because I didn't collect dole when I was doing year one I was only collecting after it, so for a summer, I was 2-3 months into the course and was told I couldn't get my dole AND stay in the course. Reason was cos I wasn't on the dole long enough!
So what I did was I wrote a letter to the dole people explaining the whole story. I expected it to take a few weeks but within 2 days or so I got a call asking a few basic questions about the course and about myself. Later that day got another call to say I could keep my benefits.
Letters do work sometimes!

Was that for a post grad masters course? and how long ago was it? the only info ive found has said there's no financial funding available for post grad courses. I thought about taking out a student loan but i don't want to get myself into a lot of debt before i've even started

Elmo

iamstop wrote: »

Later that day got another call to say I could keep my benefits

They have some leeway but they prob can't do it for postgrad as they programme has to be part of the course they allow.

Talula123

Elmo wrote: »

Can you get SUSI? https://susi.ie/eligibility/postgraduate-student/

If you are caught they will get you to repay.

Yeah i looked into SUSI seems like they only offer contribution to the fees for postgrad courses but id still have to pay about 2 grand, id take out a loan for that

I've never heard of it being prosecuted. Wouldn't have raised an eyebrow or possibly been even possible to snag in years gone by. But it sounds high risk in the current "recoup everything" incarnation of the Departments, and where only a few keystrokes based on PPSN Numbers might give them all the info they need. They are certainly prosecuting those who drew dole and had even the most casual jobs all over the place. And then you're in the lap of the Gods where you are relying on a good draw with a Judge to avoid the conviction that would undo much of the point of education - you don't need anyone to spell out the effects of a conviction on your job prospects.

FortySeven

I left school at 14. Have an extensive criminal record. No qualifications and am an alcoholic and former drug addict and I have never had an issue getting a job.
What you mean is that you can't get a job you want. Tough.
Scamming the dole is the lowest of the low. Get a job you don't like and save your wages until you can afford what you want like everyone else.

Talula123

FortySeven wrote: »

I left school at 14. Have an extensive criminal record. No qualifications and am an alcoholic and former drug addict and I have never had an issue getting a job.
What you mean is that you can't get a job you want. Tough.
Scamming the dole is the lowest of the low. Get a job you don't like and save your wages until you can afford what you want like everyone else.

Ive applied to cafes, restaurants, shops, supermarkets, receptionist jobs, dunnes, pennies, clubs, supermacs, kfc, bars everything. The only interview i got was for a CE scheme a year ago.

iamstop

OP, no that was year 4. I had a diploma and the course was a 1 year degree if you had a diploma in one of a few related disciplines.
But still, try the letter route.
Explain your situation and that you are having a lot of trouble finding work with what you have and that having this extra credentials will make you much more employable etc etc.
It's what I did but after college and a year and a half unemployed I left for Canada. Still here. For now.

Talula123

iamstop wrote: »

OP, no that was year 4. I had a diploma and the course was a 1 year degree if you had a diploma in one of a few related disciplines.
But still, try the letter route.
Explain your situation and that you are having a lot of trouble finding work with what you have and that having this extra credentials will make you much more employable etc etc.
It's what I did but after college and a year and a half unemployed I left for Canada. Still here. For now.

Thanks for the advice, I will chance it. Thinking about emigrating myself, ive started applying to jobs in other countries, its not ideal but what else is there to do?

salamanca22

The social actively checks college enrollments now. Usually at the end/start of semesters. I know this because there was issue with a family member being cut off a month ago due the the social losing some paperwork and thus not knowing he was in part time education. In one of their checks it came up he was in college when they thought he should be job seeking.

You will be caught and you will have to pay it back. It's a bit of a balls there is no support from the government, would you be able to get a student loan?

Tigger

FortySeven wrote: »

I left school at 14. Have an extensive criminal record. No qualifications and am an alcoholic and former drug addict and I have never had an issue getting a job.
What you mean is that you can't get a job you want. Tough.
Scamming the dole is the lowest of the low. Get a job you don't like and save your wages until you can afford what you want like everyone else.

Scamming the dole to do a masters is the lowest of the low?
That's the maddest high horse post I've ever seen

Richard Hillman

SNIP

uck51js9zml2yt

The colleges take your pps number when enrolling which is passed onto social welfare to prevent students signing on while studying.

coffeepls

Talula123 wrote: »

Thanks for the advice, I will chance it. Thinking about emigrating myself, ive started applying to jobs in other countries, its not ideal but what else is there to do?

I don't know what area your degree was in, but I think you should go to an employment agency. I wonder that maybe your CV needs revamping. You sound a bit despondent - don't give up.

From a retail perspective - I know that in the company I work in this is the worst month to get a position with them. It's the last month of their financial year, and it's when they reassess the previous year and work out their budget for next year. I don't know about other companies, but for mine it usually involves a lot of cost analysis - and then along comes April and we're in the new financial year, some temps get made permanent etc.

thattequilagirl

If it was me I would spend the entire year so caught up worrying about getting caught, it would give me a lot of anxiety and it wouldn't be worth it.

I'll probably get attacked for saying this, but would you do Jobsbridge?

athtrasna

Talula123 wrote: »

Was that for a post grad masters course? and how long ago was it? the only info ive found has said there's no financial funding available for post grad courses. I thought about taking out a student loan but i don't want to get myself into a lot of debt before i've even started

Nobody wants to be in debt but that's what you have to do, invest in yourself. Most students have to do it, I certainly did for my Masters. And it's paid off now.

Fraudulently claiming social welfare is not the way to go.

wokingvoter

Talula123 wrote: »

Thanks for the advice, I will chance it. Thinking about emigrating myself, ive started applying to jobs in other countries, its not ideal but what else is there to do?

Your persuading yourself that your entitled to defraud taxpayers. Imagine if everyone in the country suddenly decided that they were entitled to 188 per week for studying so that they can bypass the menial job stage and go straight into a post grad high earning job .your going to get caught anyway and you'll have to pay whatever you stole back sooner or later so just go right ahead there

intheclouds

OP you act like a Masters is an entitlement. Having a masters is not a prerequisite to getting a job or only a fraction of the country would be working.

I don't agree with someone scamming social welfare.

A_Sober_Paddy

FortySeven wrote: »

I left school at 14. Have an extensive criminal record. No qualifications and am an alcoholic and former drug addict and I have never had an issue getting a job.
What you mean is that you can't get a job you want. Tough.
Scamming the dole is the lowest of the low. Get a job you don't like and save your wages until you can afford what you want like everyone else.

Well in some cases employers won't take on overly qualified ppl, because they fear losing them the minute something better comes up.

Example, a mate of mine with a masters in some business field couldn't get an interview for part time role or supervisor role were I work, but got offered a sales rep role with medical company with company car and whole lot more money

Annasopra

Talula123 wrote: »

I did i've been trying to find other options but you can't get back to education for postgrad courses

Yes you can
Only postgraduate courses in Ireland are eligible for the BTEA scheme. You can get the Back to Education Allowance for a postgraduate course of study that leads to a Higher Diploma (H.Dip.) qualification in any discipline or a Professional Masters in Education.

drunkmonkey

Back in my day you got a part time job to make up the shortfall.

PhoenixParker

I started a PhD on the 20th October one year, a few weeks later I got a letter from the dole asking why I had claimed from September 1st (start of term) to mid October*. They were looking for repayment.

They will catch you and it doesn't take long.

*Trinity report all students as starting from the first day of term regardless of when they actually interview (31st August), get an offer (30th September) or start. Took me quite a while to persuade them to write a letter on my behalf. Should have run away then.

Keane2baMused

If you do a H dip in any discipline or a Professional Masters in Education you can qualify for back to education allowance.

Don't take the risk, they will find out, they always do!

beach_walker

I know a lad who got caught. All that happened was he had to pay it back. Still, I wouldn't risk it tbh.

Martypants1

You'd probably fail the exam because you didn't study enough.

RayM

If you can do your master's part-time, you might be eligible to continue receiving a payment, as long as you continue to satisfy the usual criteria (available for and looking for employment, etc). Maybe go and speak to someone at your local social welfare office and see what your options are.

http://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/Back-to-Education---Part-Time-Education-Option.aspx#cours

ancapailldorcha

Richard Hillman wrote: »

SNIP

Please do not advocate illegal activity here.

Mickeroo

I got a loan to do mine, they let me just pay interest for the year I was studying. If it was like the masters I did and there's no classes for the last three months, just a dissertation to do off your own back, then you can sign on while doing the dissertation provided you're looking for work.

hidinginthebush

Have you tried looking at a springboard course?

They're free courses for people on the dole. If you have a degree in an area, you should be able to apply for a masters in that area.

https://www.springboardcourses.ie/

Mickeroo

There were also certain masters you could do while getting the BTEA when I did one btw, this was two years ago so they might still be available. They were mostly IT based ones.

AnonoBoy

Arturo Breezy Mousetrap wrote: »

The colleges take your pps number when enrolling which is passed onto social welfare to prevent students signing on while studying.

This. You'll get away with it for a few months tops but they run checks a few times a year.

There's no way to get away with it these days.

SEPT 23 1989

Self doubt has no place in the fraud game

Springboard?

If you are unemployed, you may want to continue your education or take part in a training course to develop your skills and improve your chances of getting back to work.

Springboard provides free higher education courses for people who are unemployed. Most Springboard courses are part-time, but there is an increasing number of full-time courses available to certain participants.

If Springboard doesn’t meet your needs, there are several other ways to go back to education.

illdoit2morrow

I was in a similar situation to OP back in 2003.

I attended college full-time while on the dole unaware that I should not have been signing on, silly I know but that's what happened at the time.

When I started working after completing the course I got a letter from Social Welfare stating that they believed I shouldn't have been eligible for dole for the previous two years. They laid it out for me in a meeting with a social welfare officer. In fairness the guy was quite understanding and he explained my options. The jist of the options were 'you were found out, repay the monies owed and nothing more will become of this' or 'you were found out, if you don't repay, this will become a legal matter'.

As I was in a situation to pay, I went for option 1. The repayment terms were up to me and there was no penalty. It took me approx. four years to make the repayments.

Rob Thomas

mariaalice wrote: »

If you are unemployed, you may want to continue your education or take part in a training course to develop your skills and improve your chances of getting back to work.

Springboard provides free higher education courses for people who are unemployed. Most Springboard courses are part-time, but there is an increasing number of full-time courses available to certain participants.

If Springboard doesn’t meet your needs, there are several other ways to go back to education.

Two friends of mine, who lost their businesses in the recession, have completely changed careers thanks to Springboard, doing courses they could never have been able to do, all the way to Masters level. Its worth a shot. And they kept their payments while doing them full time.

But, OP, you seem to have yourself convinced that the only way you will get work is with this Masters - unfortunately if you have not managed to get work without it for (it seems) quite some time, you are either looking in the wrong areas or not best representing yourself in your applications for work.

But don't cheat the dole - whatever about the morality etc, (thats up to you frankly) - you will get caught. Its well known that they use PPS numbers to chase down students.

andekwarhola

Check the Back To Education rules fully. I got it for some of my degree and then was able to claim it when doing a masters (IT) but that was quite a while ago.

Disregard the rivers of sanctimony you're getting here. Just delve through for the actual advice and good luck.

illdoit2morrow

illdoit2morrow wrote: »

I was in a similar situation to OP back in 2003.

I attended college full-time while on the dole unaware that I should not have been signing on, silly I know but that's what happened at the time.

When I started working after completing the course I got a letter from Social Welfare stating that they believed I shouldn't have been eligible for dole for the previous two years. They laid it out for me in a meeting with a social welfare officer. In fairness the guy was quite understanding and he explained my options. The jist of the options were 'you were found out, repay the monies owed and nothing more will become of this' or 'you were found out, if you don't repay, this will become a legal matter'.

As I was in a situation to pay, I went for option 1. The repayment terms were up to me and there was no penalty. It took me approx. four years to make the repayments.

And that was at a time when things in Revenue, Social protection etc. were far more...relaxed.

Cool_CM

Have you checked the university that you'll be applying for to see if they offer any scholarships for the Master's that you want to do?
I took out a loan for my Master's (which I am still paying back) and worked part time. It was an extremely challenging year, but more than worth it in the long term.

Also, have you looked into giving grinds for an extra few bob?

allibastor

Talula123 wrote: »

I want to do my masters degree but I can't afford it even with contribution fees and tax revenue to help to help cover fees its a pipe dream for me.
The economic crash happened when I had just started college, at that stage there was still funding for postgrad courses but by the time I got my BA degree doing a masters was out of reach financially, I havnt been able to find any work in years and most career jobs these days require a masters degree, im thinking the only way I can manage it financially is if I just stay on the dole and don't tell them im in full time education. I know it's a high risk and ive never done anything like that before.
Working part time wouldnt support me as rent is so high and thats if I was lucky enough to even find part time work. Im in my late 20's and I have very little work experiance due to not being able to gain employment.

So what happens if you do get caught out it? is it likely that I would be caught?

Yes.

Your PPS number is stored on college database and once every few months a transfer is made to the DSP.
If your details flag up you are cought and will have to repay everything.

Is there a risk of doubling down on this and ending up back in the same situation.

I would consider springboard and/or jobbridge first.