UFC 196: McGregor v Diaz

Subcomandante Marcos · 08-03-2016 10:31AM

John_D80 wrote: »

Point still stands IMO. Also was not willing to take the kind of chance that McGregor would have taken in a similar situation. Neither was Edgar.

Edgar is injured, Aldo was not in a position to make weight, even at 155. If Conor was stupid enough to take a fight in the same situation as either he'd deserve to be mollywopped.

Martypants1 · 08-03-2016 10:32AM

John_D80 wrote: »

Doctored pictures, other people's feet, chunky backhand cheques??

Your some man for the conspiracy theories.

You don't think there's a conflict of interest there with White and McGregor?

John_D80 · 08-03-2016 10:33AM

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

Edgar is injured, Aldo was not in a position to make weight, even at 155. If Conor was stupid enough to take a fight in the same situation as either he'd deserve to be mollywopped.

To be fair that's pretty much what he did by fighting Nate. He may have lost but he took the chance when 99% of others wouldn't.

Fighters fight injured and on short notice all thetime.

Martypants1 · 08-03-2016 10:36AM

John_D80 wrote: »

To be fair that's pretty much what he did by fighting Nate. He may have lost but he took the chance when 99% of others wouldn't.

Fighters fight injured and on short notice all thetime.

What do you mean he took a chance? He was preparing the fight RDA.

Nate was the one who took the chance. McGregor was preparing to fight. He would have cut for the weigh in but he would have gained the weight back through hydration then anyways.

Mellor · 08-03-2016 10:41AM

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

Edgar is injured, Aldo was not in a position to make weight, even at 155. If Conor was stupid enough to take a fight in the same situation as either he'd deserve to be mollywopped.

I'd be surprised Aldo was unable to make 155 in 10. He'd need to be north of 170 for 155 to be out of reach.

Now, he'd be out of contact training 2 months or more, and needs longer to recover from that KO imo. So was completely right move to pass. Just saying I'd be surprised if LW wasnt an option.
...but I dunno. Maybe he ballooned up in that new burger place he opened.

Luckycharms_74 · 08-03-2016 10:49AM

Letree wrote: »

It was a mistake to take this fight at 170 but i'm sure Conor knows that now. He should have insisted Nate got down to 155. McGregor had no experience fighting at 170.

He has often said though that money means more than belts. So the lure of money swayed him.

In hindsight it was a mistake by Mcgregor to jump that much in weight.

The only person to jump 3 diff weight classes and succeed was BJ.

Jumping 5 lbs makes a diff, 10 lbs a huge diff, but to effectively jump 25 lbs ( I know he was training for RDA at 155) that's crazy.

Diaz also had very little experience at 170. He had 2 fights at 170, both losses to "Stun Gun" Kim & Rory Macdonald.

So diaz is defn a 155'er and I think Conor should move to 155, he can barely make 145.

maximoose wrote: »

Slow-mo of Nate's leg trap that kept Conor from escaping

Love seeing the intricate technical moves that I miss 90% of the time in real time

Mellor wrote: »

I'm fairly certain that was the case tbh.

Very slick, and also massively affected the outcome of the fight.
If he didn't catch that leg trap, passes to side control (safe side), and Diaz has no choke and no position. The leg trap only stalls McGregor for a few seconds too, it's hard to tel, but it looks like to me that McGregor was going to to the (or mount as per his dope pass on Dennis Siver) you can see in the above gif Diaz releases his right hand keeping the left trapped. It cuts out but he pushed McGregor over, sweeping him when he went to pass back. It forcing him to attempt to roll escape (that he did verses Mendes, here with JK). Diaz kept the arm trapped and ultimately that's what lend to the mount>back>RNC.

Another nice geappling details came for me in the first..
Conor throws a lazy kick, Nate catches it and "runs the pipe". Conor immediately secures the ankle control in butterfly guard, the weaves into X-guard and sweeps Diaz. Very small details that people miss, but not something hat you can do accidentally.

Its the little subtle movements that can determine the outcome of a fight.
As posted above If Conor gets to side control and maybe top postion the outcome could have been different.
It was high level BJJ from Diaz to block Conor's transition and pass.
Eddie Bravo and Rogan spoke yesterday that Conor's BJJ is good (he has trained at Bravo's place) its just Diaz is better and has a sick ground game.

mailburner · 08-03-2016 10:52AM

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Nate kills him. You can talk all day about their strengths and weaknesses in terms of fighting ability but the reality is McGregor will never knock out a seasoned and hardened attrition fighter like Nate at any weight.

or pretty much any other fighter for that matter
you could go so far as to say its damn near impossible to ko either nate or nick
conor thought he would just walk through him sadly, it'll only make him a better fighter in time surely

John_D80 · 08-03-2016 10:53AM

Martypants1 wrote: »

You don't think there's a conflict of interest there with White and McGregor?

Have a read of your own posts mate. There's some serious pie in the sky there:

According to you:

-6 of Conor's last 12 opponents were ''conveniently'' pulled.
-Aldo was stripped of his title.
-RDA was [paid a backhander to step aside in favour of Diaz.
-They used someone else foot in the picture of RDA's foot.
-They photoshopped the picture.

Very hard to take you seriously when you post guff like this.

John_D80 · 08-03-2016 10:55AM

Martypants1 wrote: »

What do you mean he took a chance? He was preparing the fight RDA.

Nate was the one who took the chance. McGregor was preparing to fight. He would have cut for the weigh in but he would have gained the weight back through hydration then anyways.

Both fighters took a chance. Conor moved up to 170 against a bigger man who had previous experience at the weight class (and will possibly stay there) and is one of the most experienced fighters in the UFC.

Well if thats not a chance then i dont know what is.

08-03-2016 11:09AM

John_D80 wrote: »

Both fighters took a chance. Conor moved up to 170 against a bigger man who had previous experience at the weight class (and will possibly stay there) and is one of the most experienced fighters in the UFC.

Well if thats not a chance then i dont know what is.

Don't you mean that a completely out-of-shape guy who was sick on holiday in Mexico came off a beach and came in and beat up McGregor with a week's training?

A guy who hadn't strung 2 ufc wins together in 4 years?

Martypants1 · 08-03-2016 11:13AM

John_D80 wrote: »

Both fighters took a chance. Conor moved up to 170 against a bigger man who had previous experience at the weight class (and will possibly stay there) and is one of the most experienced fighters in the UFC.

Well if thats not a chance then i dont know what is.

Nate Diaz - 30 fights
Conor McGregor - 22 fights

Not much difference in experience, 2 years.

McGregor is naturally this weight. He cuts to fight smaller men.

John_D80 · 08-03-2016 11:14AM

glasso wrote: »

Don't you mean that a completely out-of-shape guy who was sick on holiday in Mexico came off a beach and came in and beat up McGregor with a week's training?

A guy who hadn't strung 2 ufc wins together in 4 years?

Yes thats exactly who I mean. Diaz took a HUGE chance and it paid off for him. As a massive fan of his for nearly 10 years now, I am absolutely delighted for him to see him finally get the accolades and recognition he deserves for his years of mistreatment by an organisation that undervalues him and other fighter like him whose back they built their brand on. Bravo Nate.

Doesn't take away from the fact that McGregor also took a huge chance though and unfortunately it didn't work out for him as he hoped it would.

John_D80 · 08-03-2016 11:20AM

Martypants1 wrote: »

Nate Diaz - 30 fights
Conor McGregor - 22 fights

Not much difference in experience, 2 years.

McGregor is naturally this weight. He cuts to fight smaller men.

Did you even read my post? I said one of the most experienced in the promotion.

Nate was fighting in the UFC and training with UFC fighters before Conor even had his first pro fight. You cannot even try to compare their experience in the sport by quantifying it with just numbers of fights as if you think all fights are at the same level.

There is a gulf of difference in experience. Nate has more fights in the UFC than Conor has in total.

Mellor · 08-03-2016 11:40AM

Martypants1 wrote: »

Nate Diaz - 30 fights
Conor McGregor - 22 fights

Not much difference in experience, 2 years.

McGregor is naturally this weight. He cuts to fight smaller men.

Nate made his debut in 2004, McGregor 2008. 4 years, not 2.

Nate beat Ryan Hall in U.S. nationals at purple belt in 2007 before McGregor had made his debut. McGregor was still a purple belt Until just over a year ago.

Nate is simply much more experienced. He has more time and fights at a higher level.

As for the weight. Everyone cuts weight, they don't do it to fight smaller guys, they do it so they aren't fighting bigger guys. Conor is nowhere near a WW in size. He was a big FW, but at the moment he's an average LW.

T-K-O · 08-03-2016 11:58AM

It never fails to amaze me, people who know very little about a certain topic, spending a lot of time on-line slating said topic/person

Gamebred · 08-03-2016 12:23PM

Luckycharms_74 wrote: »

In hindsight it was a mistake by Mcgregor to jump that much in weight.

The only person to jump 3 diff weight classes and succeed was BJ.

Jumping 5 lbs makes a diff, 10 lbs a huge diff, but to effectively jump 25 lbs ( I know he was training for RDA at 155) that's crazy.

Diaz also had very little experience at 170. He had 2 fights at 170, both losses to "Stun Gun" Kim & Rory Macdonald.

So diaz is defn a 155'er and I think Conor should move to 155, he can barely make 145.

Its the little subtle movements that can determine the outcome of a fight.
As posted above If Conor gets to side control and maybe top postion the outcome could have been different.
It was high level BJJ from Diaz to block Conor's transition and pass.
Eddie Bravo and Rogan spoke yesterday that Conor's BJJ is good (he has trained at Bravo's place) its just Diaz is better and has a sick ground game.

Nate had sex with Ryan Hall in the gi he tapped his ass out with ease,I said this way before the fight Diaz is the 2nd best fighter Conor will have faced by a mile,anyone who knows bjj knows Ryan Hall is a wizard,Conors Bjj was grand in the fight he was dead when it hit the mat if he got held down and subbed after a round you'd say fair enough but he broke the clinch up a few times with Nate against the cage and was comfortable in his guard in rd 1.

John_D80 wrote: »

Did you even read my post? I said one of the most experienced in the promotion.

Nate was fighting in the UFC and training with UFC fighters before Conor even had his first pro fight. You cannot even try to compare their experience in the sport by quantifying it with just numbers of fights as if you think all fights are at the same level.

There is a gulf of difference in experience. Nate has more fights in the UFC than Conor has in total.

Nate has been in wars while Conor was ko'ing bums outside of the UFC the experience level is not even debatable,Conor has went 3rds once with Holloway thats it his cardio was unknown,now we know its not good (at 170) anyways,after his last loss he went on a tear I expect the same here.

califano · 08-03-2016 12:24PM

I hope this wont put young Nate the great off. You dont see him much these days.

Gamebred · 08-03-2016 12:26PM

califano wrote: »

I hope this wont put young Nate the great off. You dont see him much these days.

Swapped his suits for black t shirt and jeans the Diaz signature threads,signed up to do triathlons Ive heard :pac:

08-03-2016 12:34PM

T-K-O wrote: »

It never fails to amaze me, people who know very little about a certain topic, spending a lot of time on-line slating said topic/person

What pretentiousness!

Were a lot of people on this forum also into Arcade fire before they were famous?

From what I can see making some error on a point of mma history is to be encouraged on this thread as it gives the McGregor cock-jockeys the moment to jump all over them with a dismissive comment.

J Mysterio · 08-03-2016 12:35PM

Conor was just shocked in that fight that he didnt have massive power after putting on so much weight. He thought he would be able to smash through walls.

Also seemingly did not realise the weight might make him tire quicker, which it certainly did. Was amazing to see him breathing sp heavily so soon.

He was quite slow also, moving around in quite a laboured way. Gone was his fleet of foot, bouncy, nimbleness which he really needed against a slugger like Diaz with height and reach advantage.

Strategy and tactics for the fight were just extremely poor and I think you have to look at management for that.

Gamebred · 08-03-2016 12:40PM

Going up 12kg 8 or 9 weeks is just not viable for the body,its not an excuse for him losing but its a contributing factor without a doubt,if you compare the gaps between divisions in boxing its night and day you have guys who wont go up 3 or 4lb,Ronda wouldnt go up 5lb for a fight with Cyborg,

Also on his training by the time it was changed to Diaz he was in the U.S already doing movement stuff with Ido Portal no sparring,so he couldnt of prepared to fight a tall southpaw,yes RDA was a southpaw but not in the same mould as Nate,Nate had plenty of reasons why he shouldnt of won and pulled it off so all respect but thats my view on the contributing factor to Conors demise.

ceecee14 · 08-03-2016 12:46PM

So Conor cuts weight to fight guys smaller than him and its no good because there midgets, but Nate cuts weight to fight midgets and he's a great warrior.. Conor only had an inch or 3 on his opponents, Nate has the same advantage over most of the light weight division

Besides Chad an Siever who are about 4 or 5 inches smaller.

JustShon · 08-03-2016 12:48PM

Been lurking this thread for a while now, but just want to point out how amusing it is that people are still voting "Diaz by sub" in the poll.

Gamebred · 08-03-2016 12:54PM

ceecee14 wrote: »

So Conor cuts weight to fight guys smaller than him and its no good because there midgets, but Nate cuts weight to fight midgets and he's a great warrior.. Conor only had an inch or 3 on his opponents, Nate has the same advantage over most of the light weight division

Conor McGregor is 5'9.

There are 23 fighters standing at 5'10 or above in FW: 32%
There are 13 fighters standing at 5'9: 18%
There are 17 fighters standing at 5'8: 24%
There are 14 fighters standing at 5'7: 19%
There are 5 fighters standing at 5'6: 7%

Average height: 5'9

1/2 of the FW roster is either the same height as Conor or taller.
1/3 of the FW roster is taller than Conor.
1/4 of the FW roster is only 1" shorter than him.

They are the facts,half of the division is the same height or bigger

Look forward to his reply.

ceecee14 · 08-03-2016 12:59PM

Gamebred wrote:

Conor McGregor is 5'9.

Gamebred wrote:

There are 23 fighters standing at 5'10 or above in FW: 32% There are 13 fighters standing at 5'9: 18% There are 17 fighters standing at 5'8: 24% There are 14 fighters standing at 5'7: 19% There are 5 fighters standing at 5'6: 7%

Gamebred wrote:

Average height: 5'9

Gamebred wrote:

1/2 of the FW roster is either the same height as Conor or taller. 1/3 of the FW roster is taller than Conor. 1/4 of the FW roster is only 1" shorter than him.

Gamebred wrote:

Conor McGregor is 5'9.

Gamebred wrote:

There are 23 fighters standing at 5'10 or above in FW: 32% There are 13 fighters standing at 5'9: 18% There are 17 fighters standing at 5'8: 24% There are 14 fighters standing at 5'7: 19% There are 5 fighters standing at 5'6: 7%

Gamebred wrote:

Average height: 5'9

Gamebred wrote:

1/2 of the FW roster is either the same height as Conor or taller. 1/3 of the FW roster is taller than Conor. 1/4 of the FW roster is only 1" shorter than him.

Gamebred wrote:

They are the facts,half of the division is the same height or bigger

Gamebred wrote:

Look forward to his reply.

This, exactly. And Nate is probably one of if not the biggest lightweight.

pudzey101 · 08-03-2016 01:01PM

Conor put Ireland on the MMA map , dont know why everyone is so against him , he lost fair enough but he'l learn from this loss and continue to grow on it , Aldo moved up to lightweight and got submitted back in 2005 , and he was claimed to be the number 1 fighter on the planet until conor bet him .

jigglypuffstuff · 08-03-2016 01:36PM

Gamebred wrote: »

Conor McGregor is 5'9.

There are 23 fighters standing at 5'10 or above in FW: 32%
There are 13 fighters standing at 5'9: 18%
There are 17 fighters standing at 5'8: 24%
There are 14 fighters standing at 5'7: 19%
There are 5 fighters standing at 5'6: 7%

Average height: 5'9

1/2 of the FW roster is either the same height as Conor or taller.
1/3 of the FW roster is taller than Conor.
1/4 of the FW roster is only 1" shorter than him.

They are the facts,half of the division is the same height or bigger

Look forward to his reply.

Look at McGregors last few fights in the 145

Vs Brandao = 5in reach adv plus 2in height
Vs Porier = 2in reach adv plus 0in height
Vs Siver = 7in reach adv plus 2.5in height
Vs Mendes = 8in reach adv plus 3in height
Vs Aldo = 4in reach adv plus 3in height

Height and reach advantage in 4/5 fights

considering half the division is taller than him and his last 4/5 fights he fought people smaller than him...and as you stated 25% of the division is smaller than him... well 25% of 23 is 5.75.......but taking Conor out and recalculating for 22 = 5.5 .......so out of 5.5 fighters (hypothetically, obviously there's no such thing as a half fighter) he's fought 4

My original point in tandem with killing himself cutting weight..he belongs at 155...he's bullying the division because of his size....its fairly obvious when you look at the facts....take Conor's knock-out power out of the equation...and you get exactly what happened Saturday night

T-K-O · 08-03-2016 01:38PM

glasso wrote: »

What pretentiousness!

Were a lot of people on this forum also into Arcade fire before they were famous?

From what I can see making some error on a point of mma history is to be encouraged on this thread as it gives the McGregor cock-jockeys the moment to jump all over them with a dismissive comment.

Calm down.

No idea who you are talking about there, it most certainly is not me.

I visit two/three forums on boards and contribute accordingly. I dont jump into forum X and try tell people white is black.

I just find it strange, that's all.

p.s I was at Arcade Fire in the Phoenix park years back.. excellent gig.

Gamebred · 08-03-2016 01:41PM

pone2012 wrote: »

Look at McGregors last few fights in the 145

Vs Brandao = 5in reach adv plus 2in height
Vs Porier = 2in reach adv plus 0in height
Vs Siver = 7in reach adv plus 2.5in height
Vs Mendes = 8in reach adv plus 3in height
Vs Aldo = 4in reach adv plus 3in height

Height and reach advantage in 4/5 fights

considering half the division is taller than him and his last 4/5 fights he fought people smaller than him...and as you stated 25% of the division is smaller than him... well 25% of 23 is 5.75.......but taking Conor out and recalculating for 22 = 5.5 .......so out of 5.5 fighters (hypothetically, obviously there's no such thing as a half fighter) he's fought 4

My original point in tandem with killing himself cutting weight..he belongs at 155...he's bullying the division because of his size....its fairly obvious when you look at the facts....take Conor's knock-out power out of the equation...and you get exactly what happened Saturday night

Absolute garbage talk,its like saying Jones is bullying DC with his reach and height advantage,look if you can make championship weight,rehydrate and still win thats fine,its not you or me who has to live with the consequences of his cuts in the future its his own body people cry too much about how he looks bad on the scales,you realise thats for 30 seconds and its back to hydrating?

He bullying nobody size and reach are not magic powers,you have to be able to use them,there is hundreds of people fighting in organisations all the time with these advantages but dont win,how was diaz's advantage against rda? didnt work,thatch v henderson another prime example.

T-K-O · 08-03-2016 01:44PM

Remember when Anthony Johnson fought at 170, he bullied the lot of them, knocking guys out cold.

UFC 196: McGregor v Diaz

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