No refund for families who have paid water charges

06-03-2016 11:22AM

nhunter100 wrote: »

I see you love sweeping generalisations, can I assume so that you are a die hard FG'er for whom the party can do no wrong even when they do.

Love them or loathe them, you have to admit that the FG/Lab Government did a great job of bringing Ireland back from the brink. I am glad that they did and that I was able to support them.

nice_guy80 · 06-03-2016 11:26AM

All the lads who retired early from the council

Then rehired the following week by IW as consultants and managers!

I'm not blaming the workers, in any system workers will get the benefits for themselves

Someone has to pay for this IW mess

nhunter100 · 06-03-2016 12:21PM

Deleted User wrote:

Love them or loathe them, you have to admit that the FG/Lab Government did a great job of bringing Ireland back from the brink. I am glad that they did and that I was able to support them.

They followed a plan put in place by FF/Troika only when they went off script they royally screwed up.IW was the result and the mess that it is.

Water John · 06-03-2016 12:38PM

You nailed one issue there, Nice Guy and Hunter you are also correct. Its the blunt method of implementation that opened the door for AAA/PBP.
Universal metering was not the priority.

xz · 06-03-2016 12:52PM

Busterie wrote:

The only way to deal with water charges is to have people on welfare, child allowance state pension or public servants produce a statement to say that they have paid water charges or else the amount will be deducted from their payments. 60% of people have paid, 10 to 20% can not be collected from people in rented accommodation who have moved,deceased or emigrated. So the vast majority of people have paid. It is outrageous to think those scroungers who didn't pay should get away with it. Otherwise why should we pay property tax or TV license, when the worst that will happen is you will spend an afternoon in jail.

So 40% of us are scroungers ? or are 40% of us just brave enough to say NO, I don't mind paying for a water infrastructure, but I'm not paying IW for it.

weldoninhio · 06-03-2016 01:30PM

hytrogen wrote: »

The only way I can ever see a refund coming down the road would be a credit in property taxation of the fees paid when the councils re-amalgamate their water works into their authority.. and knowing them lot a fat chance that would ever happen!
Meanwhile I'm happy paying the charges knowing our water infrastructure is getting the maintenance and attention it desperately needs after so many years of FF councillors cocking up their appropriation of funds to it. There in lies the origins of the whole issue!

But your money paid for consultants and John Tierneys €2m pension. If 100% of people paid the charge it would only cover the cost of setting up the company. 100% didn't pay. Im sure John Tierney is happy you paid though.

hytrogen · 06-03-2016 01:43PM

Sure they cleaned out that pension fund ages ago.. I'll remind him to include ya in his will too yeah? Haha
Anyway sure doesn't water fall freely from the sky like money from trees

gladrags · 06-03-2016 03:30PM

hytrogen wrote: »

Sure they cleaned out that pension fund ages ago.. I'll remind him to include ya in his will too yeah? Haha
Anyway sure doesn't water fall freely from the sky like money from trees

Water does fall freely from the sky.

Is it supposed to be any other way?

As for money from trees,tell that to the Irish taxpayers,who will pay back billions,for bank debts.

Not to mention paying the crooks hundreds of billions,for their wreckless destruction of their homes via useless mortgages.

jimmycrackcorm · 06-03-2016 04:09PM

weldoninhio wrote:

Happened when they last tried to being in water charges. I told each and every one of my friends to pay nothing until after the election. Some said it was pointless and paid, others didn't pay and have said they owe me a pint.

Ironic how people won't pay for water but will still pay for a pint.

jimmycrackcorm · 06-03-2016 05:06PM

nhunter100 wrote:

Ah the scaremongering never ceases.You need to learn the difference between a bill/ charge and taxes it is very relevant. Particularly if you set up a company for eventual privatisation.

This eventual privatisation argument is a scam by Angry Anti All people. If that was the case then where are the protests about the ESB being privatised.

Let's also protest against Gas networks Ireland too. Two birds one stone (throwing)

Water John · 06-03-2016 05:17PM

You right Jimmy, its a sort of mantra, call to arms, no privatisation.
The reality is privatisation has many forms and in the water and waste water case it comes in the form of Design, Build, Operate (BDO) of plant.
No private co wants to be messing with rubbish pipes.

Ogle & co have their own agenda and its very visible.
Sorry, one would want to be a gomme to fall for it.

Jack Killian · 06-03-2016 05:29PM

Busterie wrote: »

The only way to deal with water charges is to have people on welfare, child allowance state pension or public servants produce a statement to say that they have paid water charges or else the amount will be deducted from their payments.
60% of people have paid, 10 to 20% can not be collected from people in rented accommodation who have moved,deceased or emigrated.
So the vast majority of people have paid.
It is outrageous to think those scroungers who didn't pay should get away with it.
Otherwise why should we pay property tax or TV license, when the worst that will happen is you will spend an afternoon in jail.

Where did you get those figures from ?

Jack Killian · 06-03-2016 05:31PM

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Ironic how people won't pay for water but will still pay for a pint.

Ironic how the pros keep using that line even though it has no factual basis whatsoever.

Arkady · 06-03-2016 07:59PM

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Ironic how people won't pay for water but will still pay for a pint.

Or if you want to put it truthfully instead : People won't pay twice for a pint or twice for water, especially to pay off some private billionaires private debts somewhere, so they can stay billionaires.

Water John · 06-03-2016 09:14PM

That double pay issue should have been shut off by adjusting other taxes if they wanted to introduce water charges with a lot less hassle.
But then originally they thought they would skin over half a billion extra annually in domestic charges. That was the plan.

Charles Babbage · 06-03-2016 10:01PM

xz wrote: »

So 40% of us are scroungers ? or are 40% of us just brave enough to say NO, I don't mind paying for a water infrastructure, but I'm not paying IW for it.

That's fine, so long as you do not use water from IW, if you get your water elsewhere then fair enough. If you wilfully just use IW without paying for it then that is theft.

Jack Killian · 06-03-2016 10:16PM

Charles Babbage wrote: »

That's fine, so long as you do not use water from IW, if you get your water elsewhere then fair enough. If you wilfully just use IW without paying for it then that is theft.

Not fine at all - where is my LPT going, and why ?

Bruthal · 06-03-2016 10:29PM

Charles Babbage wrote: »

That's fine, so long as you do not use water from IW, if you get your water elsewhere then fair enough. If you wilfully just use IW without paying for it then that is theft.

It's OK, I only want a loan if it. I'll send some back with every flush.

jimmycrackcorm · 06-03-2016 11:14PM

Arkady wrote:

and yet 50% of treated water continues to leak through supply mains in bulk quantities, long before it gets to any consumers house or meter, far more than the amount of water that ever leaked in any consumers premises.

Without household metering, how can you state that as a fact? I suppose you might suggest people saying that they'd notice a leak from their tap as the answer.

jimmycrackcorm · 06-03-2016 11:46PM

A mindless conformist, in my opinion, is one who believes the whole water I'd a human right, that we've already paid for water despite ongoing need for infrastructure investment. The mindless conformist refuses to make comparisons to other utilities, and totally ignores the principle of consumer / polluter pays principle.

The non conformist however would suggest that the De facto situation had to change, that's it's not like setting up a corner shop. That charges above existing taxation are required.

Water John · 06-03-2016 11:52PM

You had me confused for a small while Jimmy.
Politics is the art of the possible. Whatever gets the deal done, within limits would be my philosophy. Lets adjust other taxes to create the space for water charges.
Once its up and running and the water utility is all grown up it makes its own case to the people for a revenue increase.

Nomis21 · 07-03-2016 12:05AM

cml387 wrote: »

I've paid water charges but will not be paying the next bill (Shane Ross reckons I'd "be a fool" to pay it).

God help any government attempting to bring in a "broadcasting charge " for example.

FG did a "Quite Forget" on the broadcasting charge because of all the trouble over the Water.

The broadcasting charge would have been even more unfair as it is to pay for RTE which a large percentage of people without TV's would not watch/listen to it.

seamus · 07-03-2016 09:34AM

The broadcasting charge will go in without a whimper if they do it correctly.

That is, change the TV licence to the broadcasting charge, same price, same method of obtaining one. Six months later you cross check it against the LPT database and send out a notification to everyone who hasn't paid.

That way, the 82% of households which currently pay the TV licence anyway will be unaffected, it's only the other 18% who will have to pay up. There's not enough in that 18% to get any kind of critical mass for protests.

However, if they try to introduce a new process, a higher price, etc, then you may have trouble brewing.

Suryavarman · 07-03-2016 02:35PM

xz wrote: »

So 40% of us are scroungers ? or are 40% of us just brave enough to say NO, I don't mind paying for a water infrastructure, but I'm not paying IW for it.

There's nothing brave about not paying your way in life.

Arkady wrote: »

Or if you want to put it truthfully instead : People won't pay twice for a pint or twice for water, especially to pay off some private billionaires private debts somewhere, so they can stay billionaires.

People aren't being asked to pay twice for water. They're being asked to pay once through water charges even though the amount they'll pay doesn't even fully cover the cost of water. People are basically being asked to half pay for water.

Bruthal · 07-03-2016 02:47PM

seamus wrote: »

The broadcasting charge will go in without a whimper if they do it correctly.

That is, change the TV licence to the broadcasting charge, same price, same method of obtaining one. Six months later you cross check it against the LPT database and send out a notification to everyone who hasn't paid.

That way, the 82% of households which currently pay the TV licence anyway will be unaffected, it's only the other 18% who will have to pay up. There's not enough in that 18% to get any kind of critical mass for protests.

However, if they try to introduce a new process, a higher price, etc, then you may have trouble brewing.

In reality, an extra property tax

BoatMad · 07-03-2016 02:52PM

gladrags wrote: »

Water does fall freely from the sky.

Is it supposed to be any other way?

As for money from trees,tell that to the Irish taxpayers,who will pay back billions,for bank debts.

Not to mention paying the crooks hundreds of billions,for their wreckless destruction of their homes via useless mortgages.

Irish people will never actually pay back the bank debts

Bruthal · 07-03-2016 02:53PM

Suryavarman wrote: »

.People aren't being asked to pay twice for water

They are really, since they have been paying for it anyway.
USC, motor taxes etc, where is all that going?

Introduced the USC, then tell people they want everything for free.

BoatMad · 07-03-2016 02:57PM

They are really, since they have been paying for it anyway.
USC, motor taxes etc, where is all that going?

The state of the water infrastructure is clearly the result that the Irish people have NOT been paying for it.

As for USC, motor taxes, You understand how the states pays for health , education , etc

I find it bizarre that the people that are arguing against water charges are equally screaming for more public services , yet they will not play any more tax for it .

Its simply an entitlement culture that all, nothing else, what is despicable, is the cynical politicians that have hitched their wagons to this entitlement culture and are promising the suns moon and stars , while all the same time avoiding being in Government

seamus · 07-03-2016 03:14PM

Bruthal wrote: »

They are really, since they have been paying for it anyway.
USC, motor taxes etc, where is all that going?

You're right. The state does nothing but provide water. All of the tax we pay is used to provide water.

Bruthal · 07-03-2016 03:16PM

BoatMad wrote: »

The state of the water infrastructure is clearly the result that the Irish people have NOT been paying for it.

Yes. The infrastructure appeared itself I suppose. But how ever it got there, it was more likely incompetence than lack of money. They were able to install water meters quick enough when required.

As for USC, motor taxes, You understand how the states pays for health , education , etc

You understand they are 2 examples of many taxes. And where all the extra money taken off everyone went. And how in sure you have someone in mind to blame for the state the country got into. I guess it's not either your fault, or the fault of bad water pipes.

I find it bizarre that the people that are arguing against water charges are equally screaming for more public services , yet they will not play any more tax for it .

Yet, here we all are, paying more taxes. How many more fo you want?

Its simply an entitlement culture that all

I'm sure you feel entitled to something, sometime. I guess if the broadcast charge comes in, you will be straight in with the auto reply, saying people think they are entitled to live in a house without paying that new charge.

With government ministers great pension entitlements etc, it starts at the top, this entitlement thing you and other posters go on.about.

No refund for families who have paid water charges

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