can an aggressive adult ever be trained to accept new dog in home?

seefin · 07-02-2016 11:49AM #1

Have jack Russell for about 4 years now who I got from a rescue. Hes unbelievably aggressive towards other dogs, will try attack when passing during walks. Occasionally I've brought home strays but he's drawn blood, acted totally insane for the few days the other dog has been in house and had to keep separate. Is there ever a hope of changing a dog like this? I feel really selfish saying this but I got him when I was on a break from my then partner and when we got back together, my partner who hates dogs being indoors , was on edge so we split up after trying it for a few years, mainly because of the dog. I've now met someone new who adores animals but he has a male dog too. He's let his dog with friends for weekends every time we've met but long term I can't ever see this working/and am thinking of finishing as as result which is a shame as really care about this guy. I don't have spare money to pay for a trainer unless know it can be successful so wondering if anyone else has had success. Friends say I should contact local animal rescue for help in rehoming him and get a dog friendly dog but I can't bear to think of him missing me, not being properly cared for etc. Theyre not animal lovers so easy for them to say. Help!! This is as much a personal issues as a pet one, I know!

DBB · 07-02-2016 12:15PM

It may not be impossible op, but it might be a long haul!
I had a terrier (male) who tolerated other dogs out and about, but a strange dog in his home turned him into the Tasmanian Devil

I eventually forced the issue, and used crates, playpens, baby gates etc, and really maximised social activities such as walks, often with another dog or two who my terrier got on with, and slowly but surely, the new dog was accepted by him. It took about 5 days for a slight calming, and probably 3-4 weeks before I was sure it could work out. They never became best buddies or anything, but I always felt there was a grudging fondness between them!
However, and this was no doubt a big factor in getting acceptance... My new dog was a female. You will quite likely find it harder with two males, and you really do need to keep an objective eye on it all, because you don't want either dog to suffer unduly by being placed in too stressful a situation. You need to be scrupulous about keeping them safely apart but still in visual contact, be ultra careful at times of emotional arousal such as mealtimes, leads being put on before walks, you returning from an absence.. That sort of thing.
It's not ideal to have to go through what is going to be a stressful period, but you've got to try it if you think your relationship with the other dog's owner is a runner!
What's the neutering status of each dog?
How does the other dog get on with other dogs?

Knine · 07-02-2016 01:20PM

Just be aware that I have noted that neutered dog aggressive male dogs can also attack females. Entire males tend to be easier in that respect. Any male dogs who have attacked females or don't accept them tend to be neutered.

I have had some success with the technique DBB used above. We got our aggressive Jack Russell to live with our GSD. They were never the best of pals though.

peasant · 07-02-2016 01:30PM

DBB wrote: »

They never became best buddies or anything...

Knine wrote: »

... They were never the best of pals though.

One thing that is very important in such a situation is supervision.
Being there and intervening when minor squabbles threaten to flare up, keeping the peace.

If your future life plan envisages you and your partner leaving the house for long periods and leaving two dogs behind that can just about tolerate each other on a good day...I wouldn't attempt it.

seefin · 07-02-2016 01:50PM

Thanks for the advice. Maybe I should bite the bullet and get him to bring his dog to stay for a night to start and work from there, always supervising for 6 months or so?The other male dog isn't neutered and is good with other dogs but If attacked by my guy, that could change!! My Jr is neutered and attacked a timid young female collie stray a few years ago. Those were the most stressful days ever, until found someone else to take the poor collie. I'm so torn right now. The relationship might not last, but apart from that, unless I find a solution to my dogs aggressiveness, it will continue to take over my life. Sounds dramatic I know:) But because I can't find anyone to mind him and won't put him in kennels , haven't had a night away in years,no social life (as can't afford to pay anyone and any dog loving friends all have their own pets.) Plus its proving impossible to find dog sitters who will take an aggressive dog into their home. I can't continue to sacrifice my own life for the next ten years. Would a muzzle be any use and keeping on a lead around house all the time for the first few weekends?

Knine · 07-02-2016 01:51PM

Yes definitely they should always be supervised. Our terrier absolutely loved cats. In fact he saved our cat from a Pit Bull attack but he could never be entirely trusted around male dogs.

A few years later he attacked our adult 50kg Italian Spinone, a very gentle breed normally. However the Spinone defended himself & it resulted in an injury to the terrier.

seefin · 07-02-2016 01:58PM

Do you mean they can never ever be left unsupervised, even after say a year? Thats never going to work then

Cherry Blossom · 07-02-2016 02:08PM

Why would that not work? There is no reason once they get used to each other why they can't be left in two separate rooms in the same house. Is your dog never left on his own?

My dogs sleep downstairs on their own once a week, on different nights as it's very important that dogs are used to being on their own in case there is an emergency and they have to go into kennels or one has to spend a night in the vets.

Knine · 07-02-2016 02:10PM

Crates, stair gates, dog runs, puppy pens. It can be done. Many of my friends with Kerry Blues, Irish/ Welsh Terriers easily manage to keep their dogs separated with multiple dog households. I have a bitch in heat now & have her separated from my dog.

Don't panic just yet & enjoy your relationship.

seefin · 07-02-2016 02:21PM

House is one bed only and at moment have dog flap so dog has run of house and tiny back garden when I'm at work. I'm not even looking at us eventually moving in, just want him to be able stay a whole weekend without foisting his dog on a friend. Any thoughts on a muzzle for the first few weekends as opposed to crate ? From experience my Jr will still go insane but at least won't hurt the other dog or bite me accidentally in his frenzy.

Cherry Blossom · 07-02-2016 02:37PM

I think putting a muzzle on him and bringing another dog into his space is a terrible idea at this early stage. You need to walk before you can run. Why does it have to be all or nothing?

When I say walk I literally mean walk

. Take the two dogs for walks together with a large gap between them, whatever amount of space he is comfortable with and gradually close the gap. When he is comfortable walking side by side with the other dog, then and only then can you progress.

Cherry Blossom · 07-02-2016 02:40PM

Just to clarify, when I say gradually I mean over weeks or months not the duration of one walk.

Knine · 07-02-2016 02:45PM

I think the muzzle is a bad idea.

The walking is a great idea though. I regularly have dogs staying here & I take them walking with mine - my bitches accept everyone. My entire male can be difficult but he loves going walking with the other males.

seefin · 07-02-2016 04:05PM

Boyfriend lives 2 hours away so it's full weekends or nothing. Will get him to bring his dog next time, walk both,I'll try sort a sitter to take my aggressive dog into their home for the weekend and do another walk again before he leaves. It's bloody awkward , honestly don't know if worth the relationship!!

DBB · 07-02-2016 06:51PM

Whilst you do need to proceed with caution, I'd be inclined to do so whilst also grabbing the bull by the horns... Have the other dog to stay the weekend, but only when you've your crate or playpen set up, and your dog happy to be there. The playpen is a very useful thing to have in an apartment.
The problem is, if you do this too slowly, you're prolonging your dog's "anger" (which may be fear based)... If you bite the bullet and have the other dog stay a few days, okay your dog might be peed off, but he'll get over it as long as the other dog doesn't appear to be leaving

.
The longer you spend tinkering around the edges, and the more mini-intros you make, the longer this could go on. But again... Only if you're safely set up. I wouldn't opt for a muzzle in preference to a larger barrier system at this point either. The dogs should simply not get close enough to one another to be able to bite if you're properly set up.
For the record, @peasant, once my grumptastic westie got over his furious indignation, he was never again a threat to the new dog. They lived together for ten years without another growl out of him. But again... This is one of the reasons why the male/female pairing comes into its own... I would not be so sure I could say the same thing had the new dog also been male.
For this reason op, the fact that your fella has attacked a female may not be a good portent. It depends really on how serious he was about that attack... Was it terrier bluster, or something more serious?

DBB · 07-02-2016 07:25PM

Another thing to think about, it might be worth considering bringing your dog to the other dog's house, complete with crate/playpen.. If possible?
He'll be on the back foot going onto the other dog's turf, and it might just soften his cough enough to get some sort of relationship established between them!

seefin · 07-02-2016 08:35PM

DBB,the jack russell was insane with anger for the two days the female collie stray was in the house.it wasnt just bluster. He also killed my cat , even though id taught him to ignore the cat for months and they seemed to be grand together. He's also tried to attack a tiny puppy who was minding his own business and also on a lead. Hes lovely and playful with people but the way he behaves towards other dogs,if he was a person he'd be committed to a mental institution!! Apparently his previous home, he was tied up all day and looks like never socialised as a pup.he was 6 when I took him in. Will try the crate in next few weeks and see how that goes. Will most dogs eventually adapt to being crated?

seefin · 07-02-2016 08:36PM

I don't drive so not an option to bring my dog to other dogs house too often as a 4 hour round trip for boyfriend.

Latatian · 08-02-2016 12:44PM

This is not a dog you want to leave alone with other dogs.

I've one dog who starts fights and won't back down. She gets put in a crate when we're not there. She is quite happy as it takes some of the stress off her. The other two get shut in a room together like they have been for years, and are very happy about her being in the crate. Everyone's happier. Everyone's safer. It's not a hardship to separate dogs when you're not there, or keep them separated from the cat or whatever.

Latatian · 08-02-2016 12:44PM

This is not a dog you want to leave alone with other dogs.

I've one dog who starts fights and won't back down. She gets put in a crate when we're not there. She is quite happy as it takes some of the stress off her. The other two get shut in a room together like they have been for years, and are very happy about her being in the crate. Everyone's happier. Everyone's safer. It's not a hardship to separate dogs when you're not there, or keep them separated from the cat or whatever.

Edit: forgot to say, usual advice is to introduce them on neutral grounds. You could start by finding someone who you know has a perfectly relaxed dog and go on walks- walking on opposite sides of a suburban street for example. Gradually close the distance over the course of more than a few walks, waiting until the dog is relaxed before you go any closer. Then do the same for the dog you are trying to get him good with.

Training your dog to accept a muzzle will mean that even if there is a mishap and your dog gets out or anything, no-one will get injured. Look up 'click to calm', 'Look At That' and 'DINOS' for in-depth training advice and strategies.

This isn't something that'll go away overnight but it IS something you will likely be able to improve. Training and management are both needed- teaching the dog to accept other dogs, and never letting him be in a position where he could injure the other dog.

PucaMama · 08-02-2016 01:40PM

I have a very dog aggressive (and aggressive in general) terrier. She doesn't like other dogs, cats or any other animal and she doesn't like strange people so I understand the trouble it can cause. Id advise against same sex pairings. At best be prepared to never have the dogs unsupervised together. At the worst the won't get over their dislike. Terriers can be difficult to handle. There is only one female dog I would trust my girl to be around and only because she was with her as a pup.

seefin · 04-03-2016 10:52AM

Still haven't worked out best way of approaching this. Suppose I teach my dog to accept crate, does this mean when my boyfriend's dog cones to house, my dog is crated beforehand and kepts in crate any time other dog is in the room or how would it work? Even when we would be in the room with the dogs, both on leads, I know from experience my dog will bite me or anyone close by out of frustration as cannot get near the other dog. That's why I considered the muzzle. I'm getting to stage where if I found a really good home, I would rehome him. That or finish relationship,honestly can't see it working out.

Knine · 04-03-2016 11:35AM

Basically the dogs take turns in the crate. I certainly would not let the dog dictate my relationship. I have to do this when I have bitches in heat. I regularly have entire dogs staying here & this is what I do as even though my dogs are friendly I have an entire dog who has been used at stud. So when I can't supervise I separate them.

aonb · 04-03-2016 02:45PM

seefin wrote: »

Still haven't worked out best way of approaching this. Suppose I teach my dog to accept crate, does this mean when my boyfriend's dog cones to house, my dog is crated beforehand and kepts in crate any time other dog is in the room or how would it work? Even when we would be in the room with the dogs, both on leads, I know from experience my dog will bite me or anyone close by out of frustration as cannot get near the other dog. That's why I considered the muzzle. I'm getting to stage where if I found a really good home, I would rehome him. That or finish relationship,honestly can't see it working out.

Terriers are the pits sometimes - Ive always had them, but they can be bloody-minded.
Its difficult to imagine that (1) you would let your dog cause you to give up a good relationship or that (2) you would imagine that you could find a good home for your dog-aggressive dog. You love your dog, but cant manage it, so consider why/how another new home (who dont yet love him) could manage him?

Im not criticizing you in any way, but think this is a very difficult situation for you. You say that you havent had a holiday for years as your dog cant be minded/kennelled - thats terrible. I know you said that you cant afford one, but maybe you could phone around to behaviourists and see what they charge, tell them the situation and see if they feel they could actually help? They might do a consultation visit to see what your dog is like, and you can go on from there?

Have you tried calmers at all - desperate situations call for desperate measures - for when your partner and his dog come to visit? I would definitely try crate training. If necessary your dog and the partners dog would have to be in seperate rooms for the overnight visit. But dont give up if you really like the guy - finding someone compatible is hard enough wihtout letting your dog mess it up. There must be a solution!!

dashoonage · 04-03-2016 02:56PM

I thought you meant an adult human. Adult humans are hard to train...id hold out more hope for the dog.

seefin · 04-03-2016 03:27PM

Thanks. I haven't slept the past week as don't know where to turn. If my dog was an only dog living with an elderly person,he would be blissfully happy. He's a dote until other dogs enter the equation so that's why thought maybe he could adapt to a different home. I see what. You're saying though-they'd never be able to go away for a night either unless had family or friends willing to mind him.I have nobody in a position to step in though. My family all hate animals and my friends all have young families so couldnt mind him. I have spoken to people in animal rescues and they reckon he's not one for changing- some dogs are just happier as only dogs. My boyfriend just wants us to bring them together and let them work it out- his dog is bigger so he's no fear of him being hurt!! He's never seen my dog when I brought in strays so doesn't understand how psycho he gets. Got a dog behaviourist a few years ago but she was old school, me being dominant , going through doors first etc.

Latatian · 06-03-2016 01:25PM

Train him to accept a muzzle first before he even sees the other dog.

DO NOT bring them together first in your house. Just to emphasize this again- this makes it much more likely to all go pear-shaped. This really is one of those 'a good start is half the work' things. You should have 'em at the stage where there is no kind of aggressive fit before they get anywhere near your house. Neutral, especially unfamiliar, ground is your friend with terriers.

If you teach your dog to accept crate it would mean that, AFTER having done all the ground-work and provided your dog has responded by being able to tolerate this dog, you can sit quietly in the same room with two on-leash dogs and yours with a muzzle, without anyone snarling or fussing.

Once you can do that 100% with your dog relaxed about the whole situation you might be able to progress to no leads, but muzzle. The long term aim would be that you can have a dog that minds its own business, won't start a row, but will be put in the crate as soon as it looks like it is starting one. And that they would be fed separately in different rooms, and crated when you cannot supervise both of them, and one dog gets crated if you ever give the other a bone or high-value item that they might fight over. This isn't unusual for multi-dog households with terriers, and dogs can lead happy lives like this if you are careful and consistent.

Here is a much better and more detailed description by a dog behaviourist.

https://dogsinneedofspace.com/suggested-reading/

http://suzanneclothier.com/aggression-some-reasons-behind-it Signs to watch out for when you do that introduction.

seefin · 06-03-2016 03:11PM

seefin wrote:

Thanks. I haven't slept the past week as don't know where to turn. If my dog was an only dog living with an elderly person,he would be blissfully happy. He's a dote until other dogs enter the equation so that's why thought maybe he could adapt to a different home. I see what. You're saying though-they'd never be able to go away for a night either unless had family or friends willing to mind him.I have nobody in a position to step in though. My family all hate animals and my friends all have young families so couldnt mind him. I have spoken to people in animal rescues and they reckon he's not one for changing- some dogs are just happier as only dogs. My boyfriend just wants us to bring them together and let them work it out- his dog is bigger so he's no fear of him being hurt!! He's never seen my dog when I brought in strays so doesn't understand how psycho he gets. Got a dog behaviourist a few years ago but she was old school, me being dominant , going through doors first etc.

Latatian wrote:

Once you can do that 100% with your dog relaxed about the whole situation you might be able to progress to no leads, but muzzle. The long term aim would be that you can have a dog that minds its own business, won't start a row, but will be put in the crate as soon as it looks like it is starting one. And that they would be fed separately in different rooms, and crated when you cannot supervise both of them, and one dog gets crated if you ever give the other a bone or high-value item that they might fight over. This isn't unusual for multi-dog households with terriers, and dogs can lead happy lives like this if you are careful and consistent.

Thanks.everyone else who posted seemed adamant about not muzzling him ? I was doing that more for my own protection as with strays I brought into house, he would get so insane with anger I was almost bitten a few times during his fits. I've ordered a crate and am going to get a dog behaviourist to assess him. Will give my best shot before making any drastic decisions about rehoming him or breaking up with boyfriend..

Latatian · 06-03-2016 03:27PM

On re-reading the thread people seemed to be objecting less to the muzzle than with the implication that muzzling would be done *instead of* introducing them outside the house, having large physical barriers, keeping them separated etc.

So AdrenalineJunie and Knine said that it's too soon to just put a muzzle on him and have him in the house with the other dogs- walk them with a large gap first on neutral ground. And DBB said basically that the dogs shouldn't be close enough to be able to bite each other- a 'large barrier system' should be in place. We're all basically saying the same thing.

Again, the 'in house on lead with muzzle' situation would only be after the dogs were fine with each other on a few walks (you could/should also use the muzzle on walks, of course.) There's a more detailed description in the first link I put up. Do not skip steps, do not move ahead until the dog can cope with the previous step comfortably.

aonb · 06-03-2016 03:30PM

OP, if a dog is trained to accept a basket muzzle, its just part of the day to day routine and training. If it means that he wont bite you or your partners dog, and you use it as a ' safety management' tool then I dont see a problem with it. Its obviously not going to fix his aggression issues, but if it keeps you safe and your partners dogs safe, while you try to resolve his issues. He will only be using the muzzle when your partners dog is around. Assuming you can get him to accept the muzzle - make it fun/play with treats when you put it on/take some time to see how he accepts it. Get him used to the crate before your partners dog is introduced. Put his bed in there. Make it a game again - send him 'to bed' and when he goes, give him a nice treat. Play throwing his toy into the crate, and he has to run in after it. Scatter a handful of treats in the crate and send him to get them! Make sure he sees the crate as a 'good' place to be. Let him sleep there with the door open. When he is getting used to it, send him in there, and close the door for a few seconds, chatting to him, then open the door and make a fuss of him. SHove him back in again (playing) and shut the door quickly and make playing noises, open it again, and let him burst out etc etc. If his bed is in there, he will start hopefully to use it more and more. Then when your boyfriends dog comes, you can put your dog in there - after they have 'met' elsewhere and gone for a long walk to tire them. Then let him out and give the visiting dog some time in there - you may need to remove your dog to another room if he is being very aggressive.

OP, its going to take time. Who knows, it may not work, but its worth trying everything you can to get your dog to the stage where he will co-exist with your partners dog. GOOD LUCK. Take it step by step. Let us know how its going?

seefin · 06-03-2016 03:37PM

Thanks so much. I'll teach him to accept muzzle too. I'm too soft at times but need to persevere with this

can an aggressive adult ever be trained to accept new dog in home?

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