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Water softener

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  • 10-05-2010 5:14pm
    #1
    PauloMN
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional North East Moderators Posts: 10,862 Mod ✭✭✭✭


    Anyone got a water softener fitted (the mains type) and are you happy with it? I'm in Trim - moved end of last year - and I need to get something sorted as the water is just too hard. Seems to even be affecting one of the kids skin as well as everything else.

    Would prefer to use a good local company obviously assuming similar costs to other companies.


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    #2
    DougL
    Registered Users Posts: 245 ✭✭DougL


    We had to fit a water softener when we moved to Enfield a few years ago. It's the hardest water I've ever come across. We went with a flow metered model from Leo Forde and we've never had any problem with it. You can get one that's on a timer for a little less, but I liked the fact that it only consumes salt when there's actually a demand on the system.


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    #3
    Scottie99
    Registered Users Posts: 1,246 ✭✭✭Scottie99


    Sagastipean wrote: »
    We had to fit a water softener when we moved to Enfield a few years ago. It's the hardest water I've ever come across. We went with a flow metered model from Leo Forde and we've never had any problem with it. You can get one that's on a timer for a little less, but I liked the fact that it only consumes salt when there's actually a demand on the system.

    What kind of price are these systems? The Mrs was talking about it the other day.


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    #4
    DougL
    Registered Users Posts: 245 ✭✭DougL


    Scottie99 wrote: »
    What kind of price are these systems? The Mrs was talking about it the other day.

    It's been at least three years, and it was at the height of the boom, but I seem to remember it was around €1000-€1200.

    There was also some crowd going around at the time doing the hard sell on some sort of kinetic system. It's cool technology and all, but they wanted over 3k for it and put on the hard sell with all kinds of "tests" of your water which are of dubious scientific value. Don't fall for their spiel.


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    #5
    PauloMN
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional North East Moderators Posts: 10,862 Mod ✭✭✭✭PauloMN


    Ok I've been on to a few suppliers and it seems like the electric systems are around €800, while the non-electric systems are around €1400 to €1600.

    I'd prefer the non-electric one obviously, but not sure I can justify the extra spend. They seem to be based on a timer rather than on-demand, so I guess there's more waste from them in terms of salt used and waste water.


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    #6
    DougL
    Registered Users Posts: 245 ✭✭DougL


    PauloMN wrote: »
    Ok I've been on to a few suppliers and it seems like the electric systems are around €800, while the non-electric systems are around €1400 to €1600.

    I'd prefer the non-electric one obviously, but not sure I can justify the extra spend. They seem to be based on a timer rather than on-demand, so I guess there's more waste from them in terms of salt used and waste water.

    There are electric models which are on-demand based. I have one, which I got from Leo Forde. They told me I only needed the on-demand system if it was a holiday home, or if I was away a lot, but I liked the idea of less waste and more efficiency.

    I'm a bit of a geek, so I've adjusted it so that I use less salt and still maintain fairly soft water.


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    #7
    endplate
    Registered Users Posts: 991 ✭✭✭endplate


    www.water2buy.ie for the DIY'er. My brother got a seven person timer softener he's very happy with it. They have a video on how to install their products too.


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    #8
    CUCINA
    Registered Users Posts: 692 ✭✭✭CUCINA


    We had an electric system fitted by "Aquasoft" about six years and it works very well. The only thing was when drinking the water from the tap, it tasted salty (probably not good for blood pressure!) . So shortly after, we added a second small tap for drinking-water onto the sink, with an additional filter system underneath the sink.
    This system incorporates a small reserve tank and this is handy, say when there is a sudden cut-off of water supply or (as sometimes happens) the water from the main tap comes out very brown.
    Aside from all that, I bought a soft-water test kit for a few euros a while back. It just involves adding a small sample of water to pinch of powder, then adding drops of another liquid, one by one. If the water is soft, the mix changes from pink to blue, so the more drops required to achieve the blue colour, the harder the water is etc.


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    #9
    CUCINA
    Registered Users Posts: 692 ✭✭✭CUCINA


    We had an electric system fitted by "Aquasoft" about six years and it works very well. The only thing was when drinking the water from the tap, it tasted salty (probably not good for blood pressure!) . So shortly after, we added a second small tap for drinking-water onto the sink, with an additional filter system underneath the sink.
    This system incorporates a small reserve tank and this is handy, say when there is a sudden cut-off of water supply or (as sometimes happens) the water from the main tap comes out very brown.
    Aside from all that, I bought a soft-water test kit for a few euros a while back. It just involves adding a small sample of water to pinch of powder, then adding drops of another liquid, one by one. If the water is soft, the mix changes from pink to blue, so the more drops required to achieve the blue colour, the harder the water is etc.


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    #10
    DougL
    Registered Users Posts: 245 ✭✭DougL


    The only thing was when drinking the water from the tap, it tasted salty (probably not good for blood pressure!) .

    If your water tasted salty, then your water softener wasn't properly rinsing the beads inside the tank. As long as the softener is working properly, the water should never taste of salt!


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    #11
    PauloMN
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional North East Moderators Posts: 10,862 Mod ✭✭✭✭PauloMN


    Just in case anyone is currently looking at a softener, EW Technologies have a special offer running for the month of June on a softener for €599 installed (normally €995). The install includes a separate filtered drinking water tap.

    I'm probably going to go with that offer as it's a very good price. Will post on here how it goes.


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    #12
    alanajane
    Registered Users Posts: 252 ✭✭alanajane


    Give plumber Larry Kelly a call, he Trim man living in Kildalkey I know he fits them. If you cant find his number I'll pm it to you but you should find it no bother. Trim water may be officially safe but it is sh... for your skin and tastes terrible.


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    #13
    bestiaries
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22 ✭bestiaries


    yeah, trim water is dire.


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    #14
    gipi
    Registered Users Posts: 2,900 ✭✭✭gipi


    I had a water softener installed last year - isn't electric and doesn't use salt. It's a 2-stage system of descaler (breaks down the calcium in the water so it doesn't bind together) and carbon filter. Carbon filter needs replacing once a year, descaler needs no attention.

    This is the product I have Spectrosoft and it was installed under my sink.

    Thought there were pics of the system on this site, but they're gone! I've got 2 filters in the cupboard under the sink.

    (no connection to the company, just happen to have one of their products under my sink!).


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    #15
    aah yes
    Registered Users Posts: 292 ✭✭aah yes


    Posted in a recent thread ...

    "Get the water tested by an INAB registered Lab or HSE lab and ask for Check Monitoring test of around ten parameters (50 euros) on mains water schemes, or Audit Monitoring test for (100 euros) on private wells. See firms below for other water testing advice - they may test hardness for you for free ...

    As for water softener sizing, it is always, always better to go for the larger systems for longer life and lower water use because of better capacity and less frequent wash intervals, these sort of systems range from 500 to 800 euros and are state of the art, top end Clack metered systems.

    Small fee for install / long warranty may be applied by expert firms. (Good advice, do not use the average plumber to install a water softener, or you will end up with badly calibrated, low efficiency system, [cost the earth over the years] and no - "really on the ball" back up service and warranty).

    Sure some plumbers are good, and some may cater in the line of water treatment, but 9/10 are bad when it comes to dedicated water treatment, so best stay well clear.


    If the hardness of the water exceeds 200 ppm total hardness (limescale) then domestic water softeners would be advisable.

    In most of the Galway County water schemes the total hardness is around 400 ppm and it shows fairly quickly.

    Water softeners have really come down in price however, equipment quality such as in Clack metered systems are now at an exceptionally good level and a number of WQA.org (Water Quality Association) member firms are offering very good service and prices.

    Top end Clack water softeners now sell from 350 euros, have a 30 to 40 year life, they need servicing only every 15 to 20 years, and run on as low as 20 euros per year for salt in Kildare or around 3 bags per year for metered systems if sold and calibrated by good WQA member firms.

    Two good firms to contact are ...

    Watersource with two bases, in Goatstown and Emo, contact Mike Robson on 087 635 6123.

    Smart Water Solutions, serving the East of the country, Kildare etc, contact Heinrich Leisner on 086 380 8575, or 087 683 6910


    Both companies are WQA members and Clack equipment specialists. At least if you have to buy a water softener, look for value for money and expertise."


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    #16
    michael222
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39 ✭michael222


    Yes

    The water out here is hard as well, got that water sort machine here and working fine, everything is better even having a shower is better.

    If you have the cash i would get this system in plcae

    Michael


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    #17
    aah yes
    Registered Users Posts: 292 ✭✭aah yes


    Water softeners, especially Clack systems costing from 350 to 800 euros, will pay for themselves within a 2 to 4 year period on very hard water, adjusting for costs in repairs / replacement of showers, immersions, dishwashers, washing machines, etc, plus half the costs in cleaning and detergents, savings in heating costs for hot water, better carbon footprint, etc, etc.

    At the worst, after 5 years to the next 30 years you can be saving from 100 to 300 euros per year, for very little annual running costs of 20 to 40 euros.


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    #18
    michael222
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39 ✭michael222


    gws wrote: »
    Water softeners, especially Clack systems costing from 350 to 800 euros, will pay for themselves within a 2 to 4 year period on very hard water, adjusting for costs in repairs / replacement of showers, immersions, dishwashers, washing machines, etc, plus half the costs in cleaning and detergents, savings in heating costs for hot water, better carbon footprint, etc, etc.

    At the worst, after 5 years to the next 30 years you can be saving from 100 to 300 euros per year, for very little annual running costs of 20 to 40 euros.


    Some good info here, where i live they have a web site set up for info just like this. People just need to know the effects of bad water.

    Michael


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    #19
    aah yes
    Registered Users Posts: 292 ✭✭aah yes


    Like this ...

    http://www.wwdmag.com/Results-of-Battelle-Study-Available-Online-NewsPiece20318


    Results of the Battelle study on benefits of removal of water hardness from a water supply can be found at www.wqa.org/battellereport.

    The U.S. Department of Energy said water heating can account for 14 to 25% of the energy consumed in your home. It is the second highest energy consuming area of a home, next to heating and cooling. Monthly water heating bills can be reduced substantially by softening hard water supplies, according to the Water Quality Research Foundation’s (WQRF) Battelle Study

    This study shows water softeners to be one of the very highest energy-saving and best green technology appliances that a homeowner can own.

    In 2009 the Battelle Memorial Institute in Columbus, Ohio, was retained by the WQRF to develop and run tests to determine how much energy savings household water softeners can provide.

    Results of the study demonstrated that untreated hard water can cause significant efficiency losses and added costs in water heating--up to 24% in some cases.

    Battelle also found hard water to rapidly lead to clogged showerheads, in as soon as a year-and-a-half of regular use.

    After just one week of constant testing with hard water, more than three-fourths of showerhead nozzles became clogged, according to laboratory results.

    All appliances and fixtures using softened water, meanwhile, performed nearly as well throughout the testing as on the day they were installed.


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    #20
    aah yes
    Registered Users Posts: 292 ✭✭aah yes


    see ...

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=68792475


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    #21
    John O Sulliva
    Registered Users Posts: 1 ✭John O Sulliva


    Does any have a system provided by Celtic Water Solutions and if so how do you find them


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    #22
    oxomoxo
    Registered Users Posts: 28 ✭oxomoxo


    I had the EW Technologies water softener installed at the beginning of the year and haven't look back since. Great system and a very professional outfit to deal with. They even send me a text reminder every two months to check the system for salt levels. I've used less than 2 bags of salt in the last 5 months.


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    #23
    NIMAN
    Registered Users Posts: 33,218 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    John O Sulliva wrote: »
    Does any have a system provided by Celtic Water Solutions and if so how do you find them

    Me.

    Got one installed last year. Full size Clack system, excellent. We suffer from really hard water, been fine since. Very easy on salt too.

    Excellent service. Costly at just over 1k, but we'll worth it IMHO. Aah yes is a great source of info on the subject, a mountain of information


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    #24
    aah yes
    Registered Users Posts: 292 ✭✭aah yes


    thank ye NIMAN :)


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    #25
    bladespin
    Registered Users Posts: 7,339 ✭✭✭bladespin


    Is this on a public mains system?


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    #26
    aah yes
    Registered Users Posts: 292 ✭✭aah yes


    More so on public mains, but many also on private wells.


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    #27
    bladespin
    Registered Users Posts: 7,339 ✭✭✭bladespin


    aah yes wrote: »
    More so on public mains, but many also on private wells.

    Wouldn't Irish Water be responsible for any damage caused by their 'product' :confused:

    I remember the water in Dunshaughlin when I worked there years back, sludge would be a better description.


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    #28
    aah yes
    Registered Users Posts: 292 ✭✭aah yes


    Legally if it was a product classified as a food or beverage, under strict hygiene and re-sale laws, (bottled water etc,) maybe.

    Even tap water has far higher levels of testing, parametric limitations, and EU Drinking Water Directive governance than bottled water.

    But natural delivery of water in its normal state (hard or some level of hardness), .. no.


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    #29
    NIMAN
    Registered Users Posts: 33,218 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    I forgot to add that for the price I also got a reverse osmosis system fitted with 5 filters, and an additional tap for drinking water.

    I wouldn't use this religiously for drinking water as I don't taste any difference in the softened water and if you do the research softened water isn't high in salt as many people seem to think.


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    #30
    aah yes
    Registered Users Posts: 292 ✭✭aah yes


    Technically all ion exchange softened water is zero sodium chloride, no salt, just trace level sodium from 70 mg/L to 140 mg/L where 200 mg/L sodium is the safe W.H.O, HSE, EPA and EU Drinking Water Directive level.

    About the same levels of sodium found in many popular supermarket bottled waters.

    Except bottled waters are not zero sodium chloride like softened water, their levels include sodium chloride salt.

    Some mains fed and well waters also contain some low levels of sodium chloride, so these could be added in total to final levels measured in softened water however.


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    #31
    creedp
    Registered Users Posts: 5,658 ✭✭✭creedp


    aah yes wrote: »
    Technically all ion exchange softened water is zero sodium chloride, no salt, just trace level sodium from 70 mg/L to 140 mg/L where 200 mg/L sodium is the safe W.H.O, HSE, EPA and EU Drinking Water Directive level.

    About the same levels of sodium found in many popular supermarket bottled waters.

    Except bottled waters are not zero sodium chloride like softened water, their levels include sodium chloride salt.

    Some mains fed and well waters also contain some low levels of sodium chloride, so these could be added in total to final levels measured in softened water however.[/QUOTE

    Sorry for dragging up old thread but I am in the process of installing a water softener system and was wondering if it is worthwhile also installing the RO tap for drinking water. Its seems reasonable to install in tandem with water softener but have been quoted maintenance costs of €120 per year for filters plus an additional €110 every 3 years for an additional filter. An additional option is to install a ultra violet treatment unit for about €150 to get rid of any bacteria that may be in the water now or at some time in the future - any views on whether this is worthwhile for a well supply in Co. Louth?

    Anyone just install a water softener to all water supply incl drinking water or alternatively opt to soften all water except the drinking water.

    I have contact a couple of companies including the Western one referred to earlier .. wondering if there are good/better alternatives for Co. Louth?

    Thanks for assistance


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