People Power - Circus run out of town.

Witchie · 03-03-2016 12:49PM

pickarooney wrote: »

So Monaghan's answer to animals being moved around was to make them move on again?

The point of it was to show that they won't make money out of Monaghan people with their animals. If everywhere does the same, they will go bust and the animals will have to be rehomed somewhere more suitable. Fossetts have gone down the no animal route (bar a few horses, which I still don't fully agree with, but at least horses are used to being stabled) and are thriving.

Dr Turk Turkelton wrote: »

Witchie: he's the hero Monaghan deserves not the one it needs.

Am female.......and it wasn't me who started the campaign so am no hero!

Cabaal wrote: »

Rather then creating some vigilante group to run a business out of town because they personally don't like the idea of the business, would it not be better to lobby the government to change the law in relation to animals and circus?

Until the law is changed what the circus is doing is perfectly legal and nobody should be effecting their business.

The lobbying has been done in tandem. The page is sharing the ISPCA petition and the issue has been brought to the attention of the council with the view to getting the local by-laws changed to ban wild animals being used for entertainment. Bang goes my Friday nights of enjoying scumbags bate the lather out of each other on Dublin Street.

Kidchameleon wrote: »

I wonder if the OP or the people who signed the petition are vegetarians?

I am but not sure how many of the 1,700+ people who signed the petition are.

Wibbs wrote: »

Oh you mean don't let facts get in the way of feels? Look, I say fair play to Witchie and the community and it sent a message, but now the best plan is to appeal for legislation based on animal welfare realities to get this kinda thing banned from the country and the EU.

We are working on that. Small baby steps. Stop it in our town, row behind the ISPCA and move from there.

goz83 wrote: »

Just as well I didn't suggest she was.

While I personally don't agree with animals (most especially larger ones) being used in a circus, I don't think the right approach is to force the circus out of town (and onto the next town) because it does nothing but massage the ego of someone involved in "the cause". The animals are moved on more quickly, probably more stressed from more time in a cage as a result of being forced out of town.

While the intent was noble, the result was less than successful when you think about it. A better approach would have been to refuse to go and instead, start up one of those signature campaigns and highlight the issue. Get the local journalists on board....nothing like a free story to fill the middle pages of the local gazette.

That is how it originally started. A protest march was organised, with children and adults dressing as animals, marching to the circus this Saturday. A petition was set up too. Then the circus decided to cancel as they knew there was opposition. Their choice.

Believe me it will be front and centre of the local newspapers as very feckin little else happens around Monaghan!

DublinCJM · 03-03-2016 12:56PM

Should have just gone straight for the juggler.

I heard that's the quickest way to kill off a circus.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i · 03-03-2016 12:58PM

goz83 wrote: »

Whats your stance on animals kept in a zoo?

What's your stance on animals kept in a house? I know some cat/dog owners domesticate their animals so much so, that they never ever keave the house!

Some of these save the world groups do more damage than anything else.

I'm not a fan of performing animals at a circus, but I see little difference between that and the people who turn their dogs into Elvis and Barbie and parade them around the dog shows....same for cats.

Remember those crusty gobshítes that released the mink up in Donegal? Oh the poor little mink. What about the bird population who are at risk from this invasive species and the destruction these animals caused to the ecology. Two wrongs don't make a right.

iguana · 03-03-2016 01:10PM

I don't honestly understand why circuses still have animals. It seems like an awful business decision. Huge numbers of people won't go to a circus with animals whereas most people that will, would still go to a circus with no animals. Why automatically cut yourself off from so many potential customers? The only reason I can think of is that it costs too much to hire additional human acts. And if it's cheaper to traipse about the place with tigers and elephants than it is to pay a few clowns, then you know there is no way that the animals live in even remotely humane conditions.

Kristopherus · 03-03-2016 01:15PM

Greta Small Rancher wrote: »

Remember those crusty gobshítes that released the mink up in Donegal? Oh the poor little mink. What about the bird population who are at risk from this invasive species and the destruction these animals caused to the ecology. Two wrongs don't make a right.

Indeed. And they have increased and multiplied at an alarming rate. There are now millions of them wreaking havoc to the ecology and farming industry.

Gatling · 03-03-2016 01:23PM

Can we run moaners and whingers out and replaced with people with actual lives

osarusan · 03-03-2016 01:24PM

Wibbs wrote: »

Oh you mean don't let facts get in the way of feels?

No feels here.

Wibbs wrote: »

Look, I say fair play to Witchie and the community and it sent a message

So do I. A small message, but that's all they set out to do. I didn't see them make any greater claims about it. If nothing else, they can say that the profit that circus makes in Ireland didn't come from their town.

Wibbs wrote: »

but now the best plan is to appeal for legislation based on animal welfare realities to get this kinda thing banned from the country and the EU.

Agreed.

It has nothing to do with what is referenced in the OP though - what happened in the OP doesn't hinder such a plan in any way. Who knows, it might even help to spark greater interest in such legislation.

Which is why the are 'but you have a pet, yeah/they'll just be lionfood' style arguments and all the criticism for not achieving things they never set out to achieve are, as I said, pointless cynicism, that add nothing.

screamer · 03-03-2016 01:31PM

Witchie wrote: »

The point of it was to show that they won't make money out of Monaghan people with their animals. If everywhere does the same, they will go bust and the animals will have to be rehomed somewhere more suitable.

Or Put down, sure that's better than letting them be in a circus.
Sometimes the end does not justify the means, and what you believe will be a wonderful outcome doesn't end up that way. Now imagine that happened and having those animals deaths on your conscience? Life doesn't work the way you want it to. If the animals have ended up as "lion food" before, (which they could well in the wild BTW, lions are meat eaters), then likely that any unneeded animals due to lack of business could end up lion food too..... great victory there. Really great.

Witchie · 03-03-2016 01:38PM

screamer wrote: »

Or Put down, sure that's better than letting them be in a circus.
Sometimes the end does not justify the means, and what you believe will be a wonderful outcome doesn't end up that way. Now imagine that happened and having those animals deaths on your conscience? Life doesn't work the way you want it to. If the animals have ended up as "lion food" before, (which they could well in the wild BTW, lions are meat eaters), then likely that any unneeded animals due to lack of business could end up lion food too..... great victory there. Really great.

While unlikely, this is a possibility alright and while it distresses me, if it means that no more animals are put into a circus then it is a victory.

Bigger picture.

inforfun · 03-03-2016 03:25PM

Witchie wrote: »

By sending out the message that a circus with animals will not be tolerated in our town and hopefully all of Ireland, they will see that there is no money to be made exploiting the animals and then it will stop.

This circus has already been banned in the Netherlands where it is from and I think it is time for a European, and in fact world wide ban on them so that these poor animals are no longer harmed.

Read more about them and the campaign to stop them here

Not a fan of this or any circus but that line peaked my interest. Not here to pick a fight, just correcting some details.

That circus is not banned in the Netherlands.
They were not welcome in a few cities in the eastern part of The Netherlands because of an history there with fighting and other law breaking crap. They are "real" circus folk after all.
They also were told to either not bring tigers to a perfomance in Zevenbergen (prior that law i describe below came into action) or not show up at all.

As for bans, The Dutch parliament has made a law in which it made regulations for keeping exotic animals. This doesnt only concern a circus.
From september 2015 onwards it was indeed forbidden by law to have exotic animals performing in a circus or to transport them.

Via Google translate:

The following mammal species are allowed to act in a circus: donkey, horse, dog, cat, cow, sheep, goat, pig, llama, alpaca, camel, camel, rabbit, brown rat, domesticated mouse / house mouse, guinea pig, golden hamster and gerbil. Even animals of other animal classes such as birds, reptiles, amphibians and insects are allowed to act in a circus.

So tigers and the likes, you can assume, can not perform anymore.

And last.... Belly Wien are originally from Germany.

goz83 · 03-03-2016 03:34PM

Ice Maiden wrote: »

Goz, you did imply she's ok with them above.

Not literally of course, but I don't get the point of those accusatory rhetorical questions - I'm sure her stance on zoos is that she disagrees with them, and with keeping animals indoors all the time.

It was a well meaning gesture and awareness creating - pissing on something for the sake of it might make the person feel smug and superior and cool but it just makes them look petty, and it certainly makes the person who has carried out the gesture look the bigger person. I don't mean people saying it's well meaning but... and then giving a reason why they might have objections by the way. Just people who just simply have to put anything well meaning down in order to feel better about themselves.

So you're now sure of her stance? I don't see that in the op. You must work in the carnival next to the circus with your crystal ball.

Maybe read my follow up post for some clarity your crystal ball didn't see

DEFTLEFTHAND · 03-03-2016 03:38PM

iguana wrote: »

I don't honestly understand why circuses still have animals. It seems like an awful business decision. Huge numbers of people won't go to a circus with animals whereas most people that will, would still go to a circus with no animals. Why automatically cut yourself off from so many potential customers? The only reason I can think of is that it costs too much to hire additional human acts. And if it's cheaper to traipse about the place with tigers and elephants than it is to pay a few clowns, then you know there is no way that the animals live in even remotely humane conditions.

The thing is huge numbers of people have no interest in seeing an animal free circus. The animals are actually a massive selling point.

Personally I do not agree with keeping large wild animals on the road for months at a time. I think that it's an appalling practice.

iguana · 03-03-2016 03:51PM

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

The thing is huge numbers of people have no interest in seeing an animal free circus. The animals are actually a massive selling point.

Personally I do not agree with keeping large wild animals on the road for months at a time. I think that it's an appalling practice.

Certainly that was true for previous generations but these days I doubt a lack of animals would deter a fraction of the customers that the presence of them does. Even if the parents don't care, going to a circus with animals brings so much schoolyard scorn these days that a lot of kids don't want to go.

Dick phelan · 03-03-2016 04:36PM

JustShon wrote: »

I have to disagree with people comparing the zoo to the circus. Well, depending on what zoo you're talking about.

Dublin zoo is engaged in very important conservation work and many of its animals are kept for breeding and then released back into the wild. It's not ideal and of course the enclosures aren't as good as the wild but for some species it's either keep them in the zoo until we can affect population recovery or leave them in the wild to get shot by poachers.

Agree totally, depends on the Zoo as you said, you see Zoos in China and it's disgusting the way animals are treated and kept, i'm not a fan of Zoo's in general but Dublin Zoo as they go is top notch, it would be nice if Zoo's weren't needed but at times they are needed to stop the extinction of species. Circus are completely different they provide no benefit to animals they only use them for profit and force them to live in totally unnatural environments and being always moved around i hate them and see them as a form of animal cruelty, anyone who compares a person having a pet cat or dog to a circus with elephants hasn't a clue about animals.

JustShon · 03-03-2016 04:40PM

Dick phelan wrote: »

Agree totally, depends on the Zoo as you said, you see Zoos in China and it's disgusting the way animals are treated and kept, i'm not a fan of Zoo's in general but Dublin Zoo as they go is top notch, it would be nice if Zoo's weren't needed but at times they are needed to stop the extinction of species. Circus are completely different they provide no benefit to animals they only use them for profit and force them to live in totally unnatural environments and being always moved around i hate them and see them as a form of animal cruelty, anyone who compares a person having a pet cat or dog to a circus with elephants hasn't a clue about animals.

Yeah, I think "Zoo" is too broad a term and perhaps has too much association with zoos of older times which were there purely to cage up so-called exotic animals for city-dwelling rich-folk to gawk at.

A place like Dublin Zoo has approximately sh1te all in common with zoos of the past.

goz83 · 03-03-2016 05:26PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Again I apologise as I am clearly missing information.

apology accepted

darkpagandeath · 03-03-2016 05:41PM

Wibbs wrote: »

Oh you mean don't let facts get in the way of feels? Look, I say fair play to Witchie and the community and it sent a message, but now the best plan is to appeal for legislation based on animal welfare realities to get this kinda thing banned from the country and the EU.

Can we call it the Fun police legislation ? And it contains a pre approved list of activities sanctioned by our noble and ever wise SJW's ?

Witchie · 04-03-2016 01:30AM

So seems these scum have moved to the Showgrounds in Virginia to try make the money we denied them. Hopefully the people of Cavan will act.

04-03-2016 07:52AM

goz83 wrote: »

apology accepted

I think you will find the apology came with the conditional attribute that I was shown to be wrong on my current understanding of the words and situation here.

Given you have done no such thing however - your acceptance of an apology that is null and void is - at best - false and at worst - facetious baiting nonsense.

But nice duck and dodge of replying to my actual post or any of it's content.

Witchie · 04-03-2016 01:25PM

The link to the Cavan petition here

There is also a protest arranged down in Cork if anyone is interested. More information here.

Dr Turk Turkelton · 04-03-2016 11:14PM

Hi Witchie,I don't suppose you have their full itinerary? Just wondering if they are coming to my town so I can bring the kids to protest.
Also do you happen to know how much they have the neck to charge people for entry?

Witchie · 05-03-2016 12:36AM

Dr Turk Turkelton wrote: »

Hi Witchie,I don't suppose you have their full itinerary? Just wondering if they are coming to my town so I can bring the kids to protest.
Also do you happen to know how much they have the neck to charge people for entry?

I haven't been able to find out the schedule. They seem to be like a guerrilla (pardon the pun) one and just show up.

BMJD · 05-03-2016 12:49AM

They won't put up a schedule anywhere - I suspect that they don't have one, they seem to be turning up wherever they can find someone greedy enough to rent them some land. I also expect that their "tour" will be over soon, my guess is that they thought they would cash in on what they thought was a nation who have no interest in the welfare of circus animals.

foggy_lad · 05-03-2016 01:03AM

Those poor animals will probably be shot now as the circus won't be able to afford to feed them. but at least the hippies and vegans will be glad they took action and got to post on facebook.

BMJD · 05-03-2016 01:30AM

foggy_lad wrote: »

Those poor animals will probably be shot now as the circus won't be able to afford to feed them. but at least the hippies and vegans will be glad they took action and got to post on facebook.

as already posted, several sanctuaries have offered to rehome them, sorry if this interferes with your edgy thanks-whoring

questionmark? · 05-03-2016 01:34AM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Would this be the same kind of good doers that let an invasive freshwater species go in Dublin bay that promptly died ?

The same ones that 'saved' mink from a farm a few years ago that devastated local wildlife?

BMJD · 05-03-2016 01:39AM

questionmark? wrote: »

The same ones that 'saved' mink from a farm a few years ago that devastated local wildlife?

yeah it's like chernobyl up there now innit

questionmark? · 05-03-2016 01:47AM

BMJD wrote: »

yeah it's like chernobyl up there now innit

It is alright. The exact same!

You missed the point. Sometimes people who think they are doing good can cause more harm than good, I responded to a post about those that killed fish and I mentioned those that released mink into the wild that caused a serious effect on wildlife. But hey don't let that get in your way of posting something with a chernobyl reference.

BMJD · 05-03-2016 02:01AM

Speaking of going off-topic......

goz83 · 05-03-2016 02:28AM

Deleted User wrote: »

I think you will find the apology came with the conditional attribute that I was shown to be wrong on my current understanding of the words and situation here.

Given you have done no such thing however - your acceptance of an apology that is null and void is - at best - false and at worst - facetious baiting nonsense.

But nice duck and dodge of replying to my actual post or any of it's content.

I think you will find that I cared not to engage with your smug sacasm, but yes, you clearly did miss a thing, or two. Specifically on the part where the circus was run out of town.....that piece of information is.....oh......wait for it.....in the OP title. The details of "how" they were run out was irrelevant. The actions of the op and their little group were the cause of it.

I'm aware of what they had already done. My point (looking back, was not clear) is that they did not need to anymore than abstain from going to the circus. These little gatherings often go too far.

The circus obviously decided not to engage with a crowd of people dressed up as animals. They might have thought the crowd were crazy, because October is a long way away.

People Power - Circus run out of town.

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