Modular Housing Cancelled.

suicide_circus · 02-03-2016 11:16AM

LexieOnRale wrote: »

Because this is real life and unless you get up and make things happen for yourself, you don't get to sit back and complain and demand things are your way or no way.

I commute 2 hours to work and 2 hours home 5 days a week. I leave my house at 7am and I get home every evening between 8:50 and 9pm. I would love to live somewhere closer to work but unfortunately, that's beyond my means right now. So in order to have money to pay bills, and contribute to the public pot, I sacrifice 4 hours of my time away from my family each day, 5 days a week.

Would you not just quit your job, get knocked up, demand free cash, medical card and housing and then complian on joe duffy claiming to be the oppressed working class?

02-03-2016 11:16AM

LexieOnRale wrote: »

Because this is real life and unless you get up and make things happen for yourself, you don't get to sit back and complain and demand things are your way or no way.

I commute 2 hours to work and 2 hours home 5 days a week. I leave my house at 7am and I get home every evening between 8:50 and 9pm. I would love to live somewhere closer to work but unfortunately, that's beyond my means right now. So in order to have money to pay bills, and contribute to the public pot, I sacrifice 4 hours of my time away from my family each day, 5 days a week.

I don't mead to belittle your lifestyle choice, but what has this got to do with there not being enough tenderers available to supply the modular homes within the desired timeframe? Surely this topic should be focussing on why builders are unwilling, unable or unavailable to supply these homes?

qo2cj1dsne8y4k · 02-03-2016 11:16AM

And so many of my friends have moved to Australia and Canada because they didn't want to be stuck on the dole here, and wanted to go somewhere that there was a future for them. They left their families and friends and in one case, boyfriend behind. They're a lot further than 50 mins on a train from their families.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k · 02-03-2016 11:19AM

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't mead to belittle your lifestyle choice, but what has this got to do with there not being enough tenderers available to supply the modular homes within the desired timeframe? Surely this topic should be focussing on why builders are unwilling, unable or unavailable to supply these homes?

It's not lifestyle choice. It's reality. I have to live somewhere I can afford, since I'm paying my own way in life, and right next to my job is not financially possible for me so I have little sympathy for people who complain they're in a hotel but turn down free houses because they're not next to their mother. You go where you're offered, and if you want to pick and choose, then you need to pay for it yourself.

foggy_lad · 02-03-2016 11:20AM

There are plenty of houses and accommodation in and around Dublin for people but this thing of being near family needs to stop!

If you need your kids brought up by relatives you shouldn't have had kids at all!

There are too many single mothers and this is the main problem! they need housing but so does their partner/ex-husband/boyfriend. We are living in a time where many households are taking up two properties.

A refusal of reasonable accommodation should be met with a warning that all housing benefits will be stopped and a caravan provided on some halting site for the family, take it or leave it but the councils obligation has been fulfilled!

suicide_circus · 02-03-2016 11:21AM

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't mead to belittle your lifestyle choice, but what has this got to do with there not being enough tenderers available to supply the modular homes within the desired timeframe? Surely this topic should be focussing on why builders are unwilling, unable or unavailable to supply these homes?

I assume it's because they are business men who want to make a decent profit on their investment and they don't see the profit in modular housing?
This is why we need to get away from relying on the private sector to provide such basic human requirements as housing

02-03-2016 11:22AM

LexieOnRale wrote: »

It's not lifestyle choice. It's reality. I have to live somewhere I can afford, since I'm paying my own way in life, and right next to my job is not financially possible for me so I have little sympathy for people who complain they're in a hotel but turn down free houses because they're not next to their mother. You go where you're offered, and if you want to pick and choose, then you need to pay for it yourself.

Apologies, I didn't word it very well, but my point is that posters are misunderstanding what this topic is about. The OP is misleading. That article linked to is not a lack of people/tenants for the homes, it's lack of builders to supply then in the timeframe given.

_Brian · 02-03-2016 11:23AM

foggy_lad wrote: »

There are plenty of houses and accommodation in and around Dublin for people but this thing of being near family needs to stop!

If you need your kids brought up by relatives you shouldn't have had kids at all!

There are too many single mothers and this is the main problem! they need housing but so does their partner/ex-husband/boyfriend. We are living in a time where many households are taking up two properties.

A refusal of reasonable accommodation should be met with a warning that all housing benefits will be stopped and a caravan provided on some halting site for the family, take it or leave it but the councils obligation has been fulfilled!

Agree.
Offer suitable accommodation. Possibly verified by a housing charity. If it's turned down then the state has met its obligations and the person needs to move to the bottom of the list and the house offered to others who need it.

seamus · 02-03-2016 11:23AM

Fieldog wrote: »

I don't get your point regarding Balbriggan/Rural areas - why would you want to live out there if your from say Blanchardstown and your only offered a house out in Balbriggan....

Its an hour away by Bus Eireann bus or 50 minutes on a train or 2 hours on a Dublin Bus to the city centre, and your still a good bit away from your family, but hey your in the Fingal catchment area - and they are the only houses available to you....

Yes, but you have options. Being out that far means you have to make some changes and sacrifices, but you can still function, you can still work and/or jobhunt, and you get a house.

This is distinct from a rural area where those options may not exist.

Social housing offers should not be made conditional to the person not having to make any sacrifices. It's social assistance, not a social blanket.

dav3 · 02-03-2016 11:24AM

How has a story in which builders/developers can't be bothered to build these 'houses', turned into a rant about homeless people, the dole and anything else that comes into their head?

How can there be so many idiots around? Having said that, it explains a lot with the rise of FF recently.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 02-03-2016 11:29AM

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't mead to belittle your lifestyle choice, but what has this got to do with there not being enough tenderers available to supply the modular homes within the desired timeframe? Surely this topic should be focussing on why builders are unwilling, unable or unavailable to supply these homes?

Ok. The reason is that providing modular homes, at the prices offered, will not cover their costs. And, they can make more by doing their core business of building houses elsewhere.

foggy_lad · 02-03-2016 11:30AM

_Brian wrote: »

Agree.
Offer suitable accommodation. Possibly verified by a housing charity. If it's turned down then the state has met its obligations and the person needs to move to the bottom of the list and the house offered to others who need it.

Knock them off the list completely and no rent allowance or any other housing payments either as the council have provided suitable reasonably placed housing which they chose not to avail of!

suicide_circus · 02-03-2016 11:32AM

seamus wrote: »

Yes, but you have options. Being out that far means you have to make some changes and sacrifices, but you can still function, you can still work and/or jobhunt, and you get a house.

This is distinct from a rural area where those options may not exist.

Social housing offers should not be made conditional to the person not having to make any sacrifices. It's social assistance, not a social blanket.

+1
The problem is that being entirely dependent on the state is seen as a legitimate lifestyle choice and you literally have generations of families how have never provided for themselves. This inevitably breeds a strong sense of entitlement, lack of awareness and a disconnect from reality.

maudgonner · 02-03-2016 11:37AM

Zuri Nice Reactionary wrote: »

Ok. The reason is that providing modular homes, at the prices offered, will not cover their costs. And, they can make more by doing their core business of building houses elsewhere.

Yup. And I'd imagine the protests at the site of the original lot of modular houses didn't help. If I was a developer and had a crew left sitting idle because of a picket, not knowing when I'd be able to proceed, or had to break the picket and risk having vandalism & damage done to the site, I'd be very reluctant to take on any further contracts.

FishOnABike · 02-03-2016 11:46AM

galljga1 wrote: »

A national housing authority makes sense and you are correct, the "living near me ma" crap has to stop although I suspect most people in hotels would take a house anywhere within reason.

For a lot of people e.g. single parents or families where two incomes are needed to support a family, living near parents and other family can often make the difference between a employment position being viable or not.

Commercial childcare rates in this country are extortionate in comparison to other European countries. Informal support from family is often the only viable childcare option. Uprooting people and planting them away from available supports does not help in building healthy communities.

Proper planning is needed. Demographic information is available from the census, CSO statistics etc. so there should be no surprises in identifying and planning for housing needs up front. Successive governments have failed to do their job and plan for proper development. The spatial strategy which provided for balanced development of the country was sidelined in the interests of parish pump politics and vote buying and we are now paying the price.

RadiationKing · 02-03-2016 11:47AM

dav3 wrote: »

How has a story in which builders/developers can't be bothered to build these 'houses', turned into a rant about homeless people, the dole and anything else that comes into their head?

Welcome to After Hours!

foggy_lad wrote: »

Knock them off the list completely and no rent allowance or any other housing payments either as the council have provided suitable reasonably placed housing which they chose not to avail of!

And what of their children? Yes, yes, I know "they shouldn't have had them" but we're living in the real world where they already exist so you have to work within that.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k · 02-03-2016 11:51AM

They were offered a home for their children and they refused it. What more can the council do? I mean it's a great parent that uses their child's basic needs as hostage to get what they want. Parents that don't put their child first, ie. Having a roof over their heads, should be done for neglect.

BattleCorp · 02-03-2016 11:58AM

Zuri Nice Reactionary wrote: »

Ok. The reason is that providing modular homes, at the prices offered, will not cover their costs. And, they can make more by doing their core business of building houses elsewhere.

I thought that the whole idea of a tender is that the Government put forward a job that needs to be done and then builders bid on the work based on how much it would cost to do it?

Is that not how a tender works?

stoplooklisten · 02-03-2016 12:03PM

Fieldog wrote: »

Seamus is only short of bringing it there....

I don't get your point regarding Balbriggan/Rural areas - why would you want to live out there if your from say Blanchardstown and your only offered a house out in Balbriggan....

Its an hour away by Bus Eireann bus or 50 minutes on a train or 2 hours on a Dublin Bus to the city centre, and your still a good bit away from your family, but hey your in the Fingal catchment area - and they are the only houses available to you....

2 of my neighbours are in that exact position, so I know how they feel....

oooh, 50mins :eek:

I have another question, why do unemployed people need so many babysitters?

RadiationKing · 02-03-2016 12:07PM

LexieOnRale wrote: »

They were offered a home for their children and they refused it. What more can the council do? I mean it's a great parent that uses their child's basic needs as hostage to get what they want. Parents that don't put their child first, ie. Having a roof over their heads, should be done for neglect.

My point is that saying "they shouldn't have children" is just reductive; these people already have children so any solution has to take that into account.

REXER · 02-03-2016 12:07PM

kneemos wrote: »

Nobody wants the bloody things apparently,cancelled due to lack of interest.
So much for that idea,probably would have been a disaster anyway.If they could spend 20 million on prefabs maybe they could use it build proper houses http://ri.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=A9mSs21ZptZWOycAxFdB4iA5;_ylu=X3oDMTByaW11dnNvBGNvbG8DaXIyBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDBHNlYwNzcg--/RV=2/RE=1456936666/RO=10/RU=http%3a%2f%2fateson.net%2fgo%2fr%2fwww.irishtimes.com%2fnews%2fsocial-affairs%2fdublin-council-cancels-20m-tender-for-modular-housing-1.2556153/RK=0/RS=irlkb9vt2uN.gQKUDul8PbHh3u8-

Actually it was cancelled because of a lack of interest in the tender, not a lack of interest in the units!

maudgonner · 02-03-2016 12:07PM

BattleCorp wrote: »

I thought that the whole idea of a tender is that the Government put forward a job that needs to be done and then builders bid on the work based on how much it would cost to do it?

Is that not how a tender works?

I'm not sure how these particular tenders work, but from experience in other areas: it costs time & money to put together a bid. The work involved can be substantial. If you've got a good idea what previous contracts went for you use that as a ballpark for what the successful tender price will be - it's obviously not a guarantee of what the successful bid will be this time around, but you have to base estimates on something. If that's well below what you consider to be a viable price that you would tender at, there's probably no point in investing the time & money into preparing an application.

The article also mentions deadlines a lot, so I'd wonder if they specified an unrealistic timeframe, with substantial penalties for not meeting it? That's just speculation though.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k · 02-03-2016 12:10PM

RadiationKing wrote: »

My point is that saying "they shouldn't have children" is just reductive; these people already have children so any solution has to take that into account.

Well then THEY need to bear that in mind when they're turning down a house

dav3 · 02-03-2016 12:13PM

maudgonner wrote: »

Yup. And I'd imagine the protests at the site of the original lot of modular houses didn't help. If I was a developer and had a crew left sitting idle because of a picket, not knowing when I'd be able to proceed, or had to break the picket and risk having vandalism & damage done to the site, I'd be very reluctant to take on any further contracts.

The protests lasted around two days. The weather can't be blamed, it's Ireland, it rains.

The reality is, if anyone actually cares, is that this was always a PR exercise trying to gain votes, the people never mattered. The 'houses' could never have been built in the time frame given.

The cost to build each home is ~€200k, a nearby 3 bedroom home costs ~€150k. But you can't get a decent photo op by posing outside an already built house, it doesn't have the same optics. Why do you think this was kept alive until now?

You can educate yourself on all the lies and spin FF and FG have told you, or, you can keep ranting. I'm just waiting for someone to mention immigration and travellers, I'm only two away from getting a full house on idiot bingo.

Red Kev · 02-03-2016 12:13PM

Fieldog wrote: »

Seamus is only short of bringing it there....

I don't get your point regarding Balbriggan/Rural areas - why would you want to live out there if your from say Blanchardstown and your only offered a house out in Balbriggan....

Its an hour away by Bus Eireann bus or 50 minutes on a train or 2 hours on a Dublin Bus to the city centre, and your still a good bit away from your family, but hey your in the Fingal catchment area - and they are the only houses available to you....

2 of my neighbours are in that exact position, so I know how they feel....

Balbriggan is 36-46 minutes by train from Dublin,
http://journeyplanner.irishrail.ie/bin/query.exe/en?OK#focus
Blanchardstown (Hansfiled) is 30-43 minutes away.
http://journeyplanner.irishrail.ie/bin/query.exe/en?OK#focus

Hardly a world of difference.

TBH if somebody was to offer me a free gaff in Balbriggan near the sea, I'd jump at it rather than paying €1100 for a one bed in Dublin, with the 30 minute/15 minute bike walking commute that I used to have.

If they are refusing a home in a decent area of Balbriggan because of this then that makes me sick TBH.

Cuddlesworth · 02-03-2016 12:17PM

maudgonner wrote: »

I'm not sure how these particular tenders work, but from experience in other areas: it costs time & money to put together a bid. The work involved can be substantial. If you've got a good idea what previous contracts went for you use that as a ballpark for what the successful tender price will be - it's obviously not a guarantee of what the successful bid will be this time around, but you have to base estimates on something. If that's well below what you consider to be a viable price that you would tender at, there's probably no point in investing the time & money into preparing an application.

Original plan approved on the 19th of November. Workers arrived on site on the 24th, were expected to be finished by 21st December. By the 26th, men in Balaclavas told the contractors to "*uck off back to the North" and that they would burn down the site/plant. Got back on site by the 3rd probably because of police presence. Took a christmas holiday. Still not finished now? Looking at three months total for 21 houses, with a bid at a 1 month build. I would be surprised if the original costings were way off the charts. Plus councils are not great to work for, plenty of developers in Ireland learned that in the last 2 decades.

RadiationKing · 02-03-2016 12:18PM

LexieOnRale wrote: »

Well then THEY need to bear that in mind when they're turning down a house

And again, what happens to the children when they do? The children aren't the ones making the decisions here but they have to live with the consequences.

You probably think I'm just making an emotive argument but I'm trying to draw attention to the fact that this issue really isn't as simple as foggy's making it out to be.

stoplooklisten · 02-03-2016 12:21PM

RadiationKing wrote: »

And again, what happens to the children when they do? .....

They all jump back into the same bed in the dank hotel room and thank their lucky stars they didn't have to move to the dreadful 3 bedroom house by the sea, 30 mins away

maudgonner · 02-03-2016 12:22PM

dav3 wrote: »

You can educate yourself on all the lies and spin FF and FG have told you, or, you can keep ranting. I'm just waiting for someone to mention immigration and travellers, I'm only two away from getting a full house on idiot bingo.

You just have mentioned immigration and travellers, so I think you can claim your prize.

I really love the righteous indignation of people who bring hot topics into threads so that they can rant about how people always resort to ranting about hot topics.

homerjay2005 · 02-03-2016 12:24PM

BattleCorp wrote: »

I told this story in another thread. A single guy I know well was homeless. He was offered a one bedroom apartment in the town where I live. He turned it down. He was then offered a two bedroom apartment in the same town. He turned that down too. He said he would only move into a house. And what happened, they gave him a three bedroom house. All for himself. Isn't that nice. :mad: :mad:

This sh1t has to stop.

of course he will move his missus and their kids in now, that nobody knows about while his missus sub-lets out the house that has been given to her by the state.

Modular Housing Cancelled.

Comments