Will you buy a place of your own?

_Kaiser_ · 19-02-2016 06:51PM

The thing this thread shows very clearly unfortunately is that singleton's may as well forget about it unless they want to move/live in the middle of nowhere.

You now need 2 decent incomes to provide the savings needed to qualify which is pretty unfair on single renters who could easily make the monthly repayments too, but are crippled paying rents in Dublin or Cork.

Me I'm 40 and (apparently stupidly) refused the "pre-approved half-a-mil" mortgage in the Good Times BECAUSE I didn't want to live in some semi-D an hour away from work/friends. Unfortunately what happened is I've ended up paying for it anyway in the current rental/housing crisis and have always had to come up with the cash every month regardless... while many others cried foul and paid little or nothing but got to keep their house anyway.

At this stage, I think I'll try to save and buy something (possibly not in Ireland) when the time comes to retire and location isn't as big an issue.. no point thinking about it till then.

spakman · 19-02-2016 07:13PM

Do the people who plan on renting for their entire lives not see that as wasted money?
You are in effect paying the landlords mortgage for him. You could be paying rent for 30 years and have nothing to show for it.
Pay the same in mortgage repayments and you own a house worth several hundred thousand.

19-02-2016 07:35PM

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

The thing this thread shows very clearly unfortunately is that singleton's may as well forget about it unless they want to move/live in the middle of nowhere.

You now need 2 decent incomes to provide the savings needed to qualify which is pretty unfair on single renters who could easily make the monthly repayments too, but are crippled paying rents in Dublin or Cork.

Me I'm 40 and (apparently stupidly) refused the "pre-approved half-a-mil" mortgage in the Good Times BECAUSE I didn't want to live in some semi-D an hour away from work/friends. Unfortunately what happened is I've ended up paying for it anyway in the current rental/housing crisis and have always had to come up with the cash every month regardless... while many others cried foul and paid little or nothing but got to keep their house anyway.

At this stage, I think I'll try to save and buy something (possibly not in Ireland) when the time comes to retire and location isn't as big an issue.. no point thinking about it till then.

Maybe in Dublin but even in Cork and Galway there are plenty of houses in the 150 to 200k range within walking distance of the city centre, they made need work but that can be done over time, and not all need work either.

Go a bit further out in the subarbs and around 200k will get you a decent place and if you move out to the country even better value can be had and its not that difficult to get into the city. A single person will be able to buy at these prices if they have the savings for the deposit.

Personally I plan to hopefully buy alone before I would buy again with as a couple down the line, but I'll never be within an asses roar of Dublin so these things are more possible elsewhere.

ShoulderChip · 19-02-2016 07:42PM

spakman wrote: »

Do the people who plan on renting for their entire lives not see that as wasted money?
You are in effect paying the landlords mortgage for him. You could be paying rent for 30 years and have nothing to show for it.
Pay the same in mortgage repayments and you own a house worth several hundred thousand.

its a bit of an over simplification no?
personally I am earning about a 13-14% return on a portfolio accross a large number of asset classes where I am earning more than a bank would from a mortgage ~4-5%, have full freedom to move where I want at the drop of a hat or if a new job comes along and you want me to put that whole thing into one single entity and commit to it (certainly tie myself to it to some extent) to a lager portion of my life as well as suddenly have an entirely undiversified portfolio purely as the alternative is I am giving a landlord a probably 5-10 (max) percent return, that is nuts if you ask me.

leahyl · 19-02-2016 07:51PM

Katherine Crashing Stew wrote: »

Maybe in Dublin but even in Cork and Galway there are plenty of houses in the 150 to 200k range within walking distance of the city centre, they made need work but that can be done over time, and not all need work either.

Go a bit further out in the subarbs and around 200k will get you a decent place and if you move out to the country even better value can be had and its not that difficult to get into the city. A single person will be able to buy at these prices if they have the savings for the deposit.

Personally I plan to hopefully buy alone before I would buy again with as a couple down the line, but I'll never be within an asses roar of Dublin so these things are more possible elsewhere.

Plenty of houses within walking distance of Cork City Centre under 200k??!!! Where??? Certainly not 3 bed semis anyway. Anything at those prices either aren't in very desirable areas or need a **** load to work done to them which you need more cash for, so on top of a mortgage you need a lot of spending money too for renovations/redecorating.

Most single people who have grown up in the city do not want to move out to the country either. It's a different story if you are in a relationship.

dirtyden · 19-02-2016 07:59PM

ShoulderChip wrote: »

its a bit of an over simplification no?
personally I am earning about a 13-14% return on a portfolio accross a large number of asset classes where I am earning more than a bank would from a mortgage ~4-5%, have full freedom to move where I want at the drop of a hat or if a new job comes along and you want me to put that whole thing into one single entity and commit to it (certainly tie myself to it to some extent) to a lager portion of my life as well as suddenly have an entirely undiversified portfolio purely as the alternative is I am giving a landlord a probably 5-10 (max) percent return, that is nuts if you ask me.

That's also a vast over simplification though. Mortgages in Dublin and Cork currently cost less in many cases than renting the equivalent property. There is the initial outlay but after that the monthly cost can be much less, as is the case in my situation. Your mortgage could be considered another investment so rather than dead money on rent you could be paying a mortgage with a potential for a much bigger return. I bought in cork in 2012, I could probably sell now quite easily for at least 15% more than purchase price or lease for much more than my mortgage. I would have had to pay rent anyhow so can you explain how this is nuts. Pay less for the added benefit of a free investment compared to rent (as you would be paying the same (probably more) money on rent anyhow).

ShoulderChip · 19-02-2016 08:09PM

dirtyden wrote: »

That's also a vast over simplification though. Mortgages in Dublin and Cork currently cost less in many cases than renting the equivalent property. There is the initial outlay but after that the monthly cost can be much less, as is the case in my situation. Your mortgage could be considered another investment so rather than dead money on rent you could be paying a mortgage with a potential for a much bigger return. I bought in cork in 2012, I could probably sell now quite easily for at least 15% more than purchase price or lease for much more than my mortgage. I would have had to pay rent anyhow so can you explain how this is nuts. Pay less for the added benefit of a free investment compared to rent (as you would be paying the same (probably more) money on rent anyhow).

okay nuts is a bit strong, it just its complicated. each scenario should be taken on its own merit, for example in your case about you mention free investment, I would argue it is not free as
a) there is an opportunity cost of investing the deposit for the mortgage elsewhere
and
b) there is a huge risk associated with investing so much into one single entity.

so every variable has to be summed up and considered to ascertain whether or not it is worthwhile, one historical result has no bearing. if you are happy to commit to staying in the same place for a long period of time then yes of course the value of the investment does shift accordingly.

I am just making the point that the blanket statement that paying rent is throwing money away is delusional.

Its like saying Donald Trump is a good businessman because his company is worth a fortune, where as the reality is if he sold it when he inherited and put the money away earning a measly 5% it would now be worth three times what it is.

lertsnim · 19-02-2016 08:20PM

spakman wrote: »

Do the people who plan on renting for their entire lives not see that as wasted money?
You are in effect paying the landlords mortgage for him. You could be paying rent for 30 years and have nothing to show for it.
Pay the same in mortgage repayments and you own a house worth several hundred thousand.

I like the idea of being able to up sticks and leave if needed. True I could be paying rent for 30 years but what do I need to show from it? A warm and dry place to live is all I want. When you're dead your house isn't going to go with you.

19-02-2016 09:09PM

leahyl wrote: »

Plenty of houses within walking distance of Cork City Centre under 200k??!!! Where??? Certainly not 3 bed semis anyway. Anything at those prices either aren't in very desirable areas or need a **** load to work done to them which you need more cash for, so on top of a mortgage you need a lot of spending money too for renovations/redecorating.

Ok I shouldn't have said houses, more so all property. I had starter homes (or not if you are happy with a 2 bed place, it is a ity centre after all) in mind so there have been quite a few apartments and two bed houses for sale at 200k or under over the last while along with some properties needing work for 150k or less. There have been some 3 bed houses in pretty decent condition up for that sort of money too over the last while.

Also I wasn't talking about city people who don't want to move to the country to buy I was speaking in general. Also as person who grew up in the country and living in the city for the last while I couldn't see myself settling properly in a city, the country is far nicer.

lertsnim wrote: »

I like the idea of being able to up sticks and leave if needed. True I could be paying rent for 30 years but what do I need to show from it? A warm and dry place to live is all I want. When you're dead your house isn't going to go with you.

But in 30 years time (or much less in many instances) the house owner suddenly has no more mortgage to pay while the renter is still paying out lots of rent. The house owner doesn't have to worry about affording his accommodation when he retires or if he gets sick, he has a home which he has moulded a he wants and never has to worry about being asked to move out. He has most likely save a lot of money due to the mortgage costing less than equivalent rent and he has something to pass onto his kids. This is just a snapshot of advantages to buy the list is very long and most people have no interest in upping sticks and leaving, they want to settle in a place for good.

Permabear · 19-02-2016 09:29PM

This post has been deleted.

RayM · 19-02-2016 09:31PM

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Are you this man?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yieS7jWWdB8

FalconGirl · 19-02-2016 10:15PM

Mother does be giving it socks needling me to get a mortgage. I dont fancy the idea of having all that debt over me. Would rather try work hard and buy in cash. Easier said than done of course.

Goat Paddock · 19-02-2016 10:26PM

FalconGirl wrote: »

Mother does be giving it socks needling me to get a mortgage. I dont fancy the idea of having all that debt over me. Would rather try work hard and buy in cash. Easier said than done of course.

Are you paying rent at the moment? Yeah easier said than done, you need to be saving for a while and have a high salary unless you have a partner also in "permanent" employment to help.

Summer wind · 19-02-2016 11:13PM

We've just finished building our second house in 15 years. Moving into one and getting the other ready to go on the market. Absolutely love it and wouldn't hesitate to do it a third time. Nothing like owning your own home.

AvyStreet · 19-02-2016 11:15PM

FalconGirl wrote: »

Mother does be giving it socks needling me to get a mortgage. I dont fancy the idea of having all that debt over me. Would rather try work hard and buy in cash. Easier said than done of course.

Mortgage debt is no different than the next months rent essentially.

dirtyden · 20-02-2016 01:44AM

lertsnim wrote: »

I like the idea of being able to up sticks and leave if needed. True I could be paying rent for 30 years but what do I need to show from it? A warm and dry place to live is all I want. When you're dead your house isn't going to go with you.

All fair points I just felt nuts was a bit strong. Buying a house to live in should probably no be considered an investment but it often makes a lot of sense over renting.

andekwarhola · 20-02-2016 02:34AM

I think most people tend to recalibrate their views on owning a place when they get to a certain age. Sure, it might not be as cost-effective an investment as saving or other investments, but it offers a certain stability that you can't measure in monetary terms. Given the short-term, precarious and exploitative rental culture in Ireland, it's really depressing to consider settling your family somewhere re: schools etc and to be at the whim of some 'landlord' that is only temporarily flirting with that designation on a contingency basis.

Electric Sheep · 20-02-2016 02:36AM

spakman wrote: »

Do the people who plan on renting for their entire lives not see that as wasted money?
You are in effect paying the landlords mortgage for him. You could be paying rent for 30 years and have nothing to show for it.
Pay the same in mortgage repayments and you own a house worth several hundred thousand.

If you can't pay the upkeep and maintenance on a house, you will end up with a very uncomfortable life, and probably depreciation of your asset.

Ice Maiden · 20-02-2016 02:40AM

One of the reasons for a preference for renting indefinitely is being able to move whenever the fancy takes the person, not being tied down etc, and that's perfectly valid and understandable - but it would be unrealistic to consider this a preferred lifestyle choice forever. It certainly may be for some, but others will change their mind and rather/need to establish a permanent home, particularly if having children. This home could be rented of course but the rental payments might be similar to that of a mortgage (so maybe it would make sense to take out a mortgage if approved) plus there isn't the security with a rental home since the landlord could decide at any stage that they want to end the tenancy.

The Randy Riverbeast · 20-02-2016 03:03AM

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Why wait? Just take out as many loans you can and when you can't pay them back just blame the bank for not protecting you from your lack of common sense.

B.A._Baracus · 20-02-2016 03:56AM

Renting sucks. All you are doing is giving someone else an income.
Don't get me wrong you do it because you need somewhere to live. But it's all about the grand scheme of things.

Now this is just me but I would hate to wake up one morning when I am in my 50s and think about the amount of rent I paid for over the years. Then to take out a calulator and realise how much rent I paid compared to getting a mortgage.

Alf Veedersane · 20-02-2016 09:11AM

People get too caught up in rent being dead money, working out how much dead money they've laid etc.

You're paying for something ...for a roof over your head.

That's not dead money.

stefanovich · 20-02-2016 09:13AM

You are missing an option there in your vote. Don't own yet but looking to buy!

stefanovich · 20-02-2016 09:14AM

stefanovich wrote: »

You are missing an option there in your vote. Don't own yet but looking to buy!

Oh right. The option is Yes

the evasion_kid · 20-02-2016 09:17AM

no,im at that milestone of life were i should be,but even if i had the deposit for a house looking at whats happened in this country the last few years i wouldnt,no job security adds to this,when i look at my own father,uncles and grandfathers they were all in the same jobs 40+ years had their houses paid off at an early age.wouldnt particularily want to saddle myself with that type of debt either that id probably be in a box before its even near paid off...

spakman · 20-02-2016 09:36AM

Electric Sheep wrote: »

If you can't pay the upkeep and maintenance on a house, you will end up with a very uncomfortable life, and probably depreciation of your asset.

If you're renting you don't have an asset

Graces7 · 20-02-2016 09:45AM

Electric Sheep wrote: »

If you can't pay the upkeep and maintenance on a house, you will end up with a very uncomfortable life, and probably depreciation of your asset.

Exactly why I sold up. On a pension that is a real consideration.

spakman · 20-02-2016 09:48AM

Graces7 wrote: »

Exactly why I sold up. On a pension that is a real consideration.

And you were able to sell up. In that case presumably you can downsize and have a nestegg left over.

Heckler · 20-02-2016 10:14AM

When I got married two things we both agreed on was no mortgage and no kids. The idea of being stuck to a piece of land for 30 years...Nope and as kids weren't on the agenda none of this "something to leave the children".

Since split and both of us are the better for not having bought. Millions of german/french etc rent all their lives. They have good tenancy laws where property is passed down generations with no fuss.

Theres an irish obsession with owning houses. Fair enough if thats what you want. I just don't get it. I can up and leave in the morning if it suits me.

Alf Veedersane · 20-02-2016 10:27AM

Heckler wrote: »

Millions of german/french etc rent all their lives. They have good tenancy laws where property is passed down generations with no fuss.

Theres an irish obsession with owning houses. Fair enough if thats what you want. I just don't get it.

The tenancy laws that they have in Germany, for example, don't exist in Ireland. There isn't anything like the level of security in renting here. If you want a modicum of security you have to own where you want to live if you want to live there for a considerable (5+ years) period of time.

Will you buy a place of your own?

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