Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2015 Mod Note Post #2331

bangkok · 18-02-2016 10:03AM

jayo26 wrote: »

Welbeck is a center forward always has been but its just he aint good enough to lead the line so he gets played out wide because he has a good work rate and energy.

so he is a good all round player then?

I think he is very good and has been a massive loss to us this season and last

Flint Fredstone · 18-02-2016 10:04AM

Irishcrx wrote: »

Anyone know if the game is on TV tonight?

BT only as far as I'm aware.

Julez · 18-02-2016 10:13AM

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

BT only as far as I'm aware.

Its also on Setanta Ireland.

bucketybuck · 18-02-2016 10:14AM

jayo26 wrote: »

Welbeck is a center forward always has been but its just he aint good enough to lead the line so he gets played out wide because he has a good work rate and energy.

I think that if Wellbeck had been at a different club and played constantly as a striker from age 20 to 25, then he would have developed into a far better player and would easily have a goal record as good as a Sturridge or Kane. He has all the raw ability, but in his formative years he rarely ever got to play as a striker for any meaningful length of time, he never got 20/25 games in a row playing as a striker and being allowed to grow into it, instead he had to fit in around Rooney and Van Persie and make do with what he could.

At this stage he may well be one of those that never reach their full potential, which is a shame but thats football.

A different discussion completely is if United should have sold him or not, and in my mind the answer is definitely "not". A young, English versatile attacker with a lot of potential sold to a direct rival for relative peanuts, that was just a stupid sale, not least because Wellbeck would actually be a great asset for this current United setup, with his workrate and flexibility he would suit us perfectly.

Flint Fredstone · 18-02-2016 10:15AM

Julez wrote: »

Its also on Setanta Ireland.

Ah right, I just lump that in with BT anyway as it's in the same package. I do forget that channel is available free on UPC.

18-02-2016 10:15AM

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Maximus Alexander · 18-02-2016 10:17AM

gosplan wrote: »

Arsenal fan in peace.

I'm glad we got Welbeck but he's nowhere near the finished article. His finishing and awareness still need a lot if work.

However, much of what he lacks is made up for by his sheer athleticism. He's amazingly quick and strong for such a young and tall player.

Arsenal signed him out of sheer necessity when Giroud got injured the day before the deadline. We had a fair amount of goals in the team at the time so his presence and physicality alone we're maybe enough to tide us over.

As it stands though, he's really a sub option or first choice on the wing at times ... which still baffles me a bit.

I think the tight gameplay that LVG plays needs a good striker and I think Welbz would have been very unsuited to it.

That said results-based-thinking allows you to say that it hasn't worked and now with Rooney's injury, Welbeck would be most welcome.

However I think if you went back a couple of months, Utd were scoring and creating very little, Rooney was injured then and the two chances being created per game we're being missed by Welbeck, people would equally have been freaking out.

I happen to like Welbeck and didn't particularly want him to leave. I thought he was a good option to have in the squad and I think Arsenal fans should be pleased to have him. However, for some reason his dad has come onto Boards and is way overstating his abilities and making him out to be in the world class bracket, which is hilariously wide of the mark.

I think your summary is pretty much dead on.

jayo26 · 18-02-2016 10:22AM

bucketybuck wrote: »

I think that if Wellbeck had been at a different club and played constantly as a striker from age 20 to 25, then he would have developed into a far better player and would easily have a goal record as good as a Sturridge or Kane. He has all the raw ability, but in his formative years he rarely ever got to play as a striker for any meaningful length of time, he never got 20/25 games in a row playing as a striker and being allowed to grow into it, instead he had to fit in around Rooney and Van Persie and make do with what he could.

At this stage he may well be one of those that never reach their full potential, which is a shame but thats football.

A different discussion completely is if United should have sold him or not, and in my mind the answer is definitely "not". A young, English versatile attacker with a lot of potential sold to a direct rival for relative peanuts, that was just a stupid sale, not least because Wellbeck would actually be a great asset for this current United setup, with his workrate and flexibility he would suit us perfectly.

The thing is I don't think wellbeck is bad player or anything and yeh we shouldn't of sold him looking at the squad now but back when we did sell him we had rooney and rvp and falcao ahead of him now in hindsight wellbeck would of been better then the two latter players but who was to know that they were not gonna regain form under LVG.

We got 16 million for a decent player it was a good deal, not a fantastic deal but he was 4th choice and not a great scoring ratio.

jayo26 · 18-02-2016 10:27AM

bangkok wrote: »

so he is a good all round player then?

I think he is very good and has been a massive loss to us this season and last

He is a good all round player but that's all he is we got 16 million for him good deal.

The issue I have is this argument goes on for days and days and its a stupid argument because the biggest mistake of the past 2 years was leaving Chicharito go and that hardley ever gets a mention compaired to welbeck but ohh no thread spends day after day arguing about a center forward that didn't score enough goals.

Your Airbag · 18-02-2016 10:28AM

Zlatan would be keen on following Jose to OT apparently

http://www.90min.com/posts/2963220-ibrahimovic-keen-to-link-up-with-jose-mourinho-at-manchester-united?a_aid=35153

Lord TSC · 18-02-2016 10:31AM

Guardian saying Felaini is out with a hamstring tear and is out for several weeks....

18-02-2016 10:33AM

Tbh, I rate Welbeck quite highly. He's not a world beater, but in some massive games he has played like it. Off the striker against the likes Bayern and Real he's been a standout for United in the latter stages of the CL and performances like that live long in the memory for me. He's produced at major tournaments too so clearly knows how to perform in big games.

I think getting a run up front he'd do quite well, I don't know how much the last injury has affected him but if he's still the same player who left United then I think his finishing, while not world class by any means, could be very good along with the bad. His last season he had a very good run of games where he scored and I think he could have made a step up but obviously Falcao was going to change that and at the time it was probably the right move for everyone.

It may seem like reading this that I think he's better than I realise he is. I'd rate him as a very good big game player, who steps up when needed. He can blow hot and cold in terms of putting in that level throughout the season however. You see that with a lot of English players tbh.

The_Kew_Tour · 18-02-2016 10:33AM

We talk more about Welbeck past 18months then any United player I reckon.

Even Rooney, Martial and Carrick debates are finished within a day, Welbeck debates go on for days.

Why? I have no idea. Im all for people discussing whatever they like, but its Dizzy Roundabouts at this stage.

18-02-2016 10:35AM

Lord TSC wrote: »

Guardian saying Felaini is out with a hamstring tear and is out for several weeks....

Great, surely United will win all their games now, like when he came off against Southampton. And when he came off against Chelsea. And when he didn't play against Sunderland.

He was really holding the team back. Everything wrong with Woodward and Manchester United.

jayo26 · 18-02-2016 10:36AM

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

We talk more about Welbeck past 18months then any United player I reckon.

Even Rooney, Martial and Carrick debates are finished within a day, Welbeck debates go on for days.

Why? I have no idea. Im all for people discussing whatever they like, but its Dizzy Roundabouts at this stage.

You forgot about nani

Maximus Alexander · 18-02-2016 10:36AM

Liam O wrote: »

Great, surely United will win all their games now, like when he came off against Southampton. And when he came off against Chelsea. And when he didn't play against Sunderland.

He was really holding the team back. Everything wrong with Woodward and Manchester United.

We're gonna win the league!

Maximus Alexander · 18-02-2016 10:37AM

jayo26 wrote: »

You forgot about nani

Don't mention Nani.

jayo26 · 18-02-2016 10:37AM

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

We're gonna win the u21 league!

FYP

bangkok · 18-02-2016 10:44AM

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Don't mention Nani.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUIPbRJL27E

seems like a lifetime ago.... 6 mins in 2-0 up v Bayern Munich. Makes you realise how far we have fallen

Your Airbag · 18-02-2016 10:48AM

Fellaini now too? Christ, so much for that "state of the art medical clinic that can predict injuries 6 months before they happen" at Carrington.

I haven't seen this many men go down since the gay marriage referendum celebrations in temple bar.

Mitch Connor · 18-02-2016 10:52AM

And LVG is saying he isn't going to recall Wilson.

United are suffering for the stupidity of LVG - he created a small squad, and it is United that will suffer the effects of this for years - while he enjoys his retirement in Portugal.

This was all so predictable.

How LVG still has a job is beyond me.

StringerBell · 18-02-2016 10:53AM

beno619 wrote: »

I certainly remember Korat for one and well as posters thanking posts of that sentiment.

On the mobile right now but will fish up my own posts from that day this evening.

Any sign of these posts where many people thought the Welbeck deal was shocking and preferred him to Falcao?

Also, hate to tell you this, but either you are remembering Korat wrong, or he has certainly had a big change of opinion on Danny!

Korat wrote:

It never ceases to amaze me how much of some opinions are obviously influenced by the UK media. Any time an English player has a decent game he's the best in the world, ignoring the fact that he's either been injured or ****e for most of his career up to that point.

Funnily enough while the UK press loves their Roy of the Rovers stories they take every opportunity to denigrate their most genuinely talented players. It's all about selling print I suppose but I wish people wouldn't regurgitate the crap they spout without taking an objective view of it first.

Welbeck is an injury prone mediocre footballer and Utd were right to move him on in my opinion, at the time. If he was Irish the UK press would have questioned how he deserved a move to Arsenal at all, much like when Shane Long was linked with Liverpool.

Korat wrote:

Welbeck's finishing and touch were terrible at Utd. Maybe the coaching he gets at Arsenal will improve those but right now he's a bang average player as far I'm concerned. If he doesn't improve and the international goals dry up then the press will turn on him the way they did with Emile Heskey, who was a player of a similar standard imo. They build them up to knock them down.

Maximus Alexander · 18-02-2016 10:54AM

Julez · 18-02-2016 10:56AM

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

According to physioroom.

1|Borthwick-Jackson|Illness
2|Rooney|Knee Injury
3|Darmian|Dislocated Shoulder
4|Fellaini|Hamstring Injury
5|Varela|Knock
6|Januzaj|Hamstring Injury
7|Jones|Knock
8|Young|Groin/Pelvis Injury
9|Schweinsteiger|Knee Injury
10|Rojo|Dislocated Shoulder
11|Valencia|Ankle/Foot Injury
12|Shaw|Broken Leg

Jesus.

At least we are top of a league.

StringerBell · 18-02-2016 10:57AM

bangkok wrote: »

of course he would walk into our side, we are pretty **** in fairness. still don't think he is much better than mata if even better than him at all.

Why would he have to be competing with Mata though? Him on the right, Mata central and Martial or a functional Memphis on the left with Martial up top would be pretty impressive, on paper.

James is a very good player, worth the ridiculous transfer fee? No of course not, but he didn't set that. He has a great delivery on him, great tricks and skills, quick feet and he is no slouch.

In terms of a RW option if you want to compare him to Mata from that perspective he certainly would be a noticeable upgrade, but no reason they couldn't play in the same side.

bangkok · 18-02-2016 10:57AM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

And LVG is saying he isn't going to recall Wilson.

United are suffering for the stupidity of LVG - he created a small squad, and it is United that will suffer the effects of this for years - while he enjoys his retirement in Portugal.

This was all so predictable.

How LVG still has a job is beyond me.

how dare you, its all part of "The Philosophy"

StringerBell · 18-02-2016 11:00AM

Your Airbag wrote: »

Fellaini now too? Christ, so much for that "state of the art medical clinic that can predict injuries 6 months before they happen" at Carrington.

I haven't seen this many men go down since the gay marriage referendum celebrations in temple bar.

Vast majority of the injuries, like 90+% of them have been contact injuries, so......

bangkok · 18-02-2016 11:01AM

StringerBell wrote: »

Why would he have to be competing with Mata though? Him on the right, Mata central and Martial or a functional Memphis on the left with Martial up top would be pretty impressive, on paper.

James is a very good player, worth the ridiculous transfer fee? No of course not, but he didn't set that. He has a great delivery on him, great tricks and skills, quick feet and he is no slouch.

In terms of a RW option if you want to compare him to Mata from that perspective he certainly would be a noticeable upgrade, but no reason they couldn't play in the same side.

remember this line up.... think it was v Leicester away front 6 looked class on paper... the rest is history

StringerBell · 18-02-2016 11:05AM

Doesn't actually matter what squad size you have when you have an injury list that length! The sheer amount of those that were contact injuries is unreal. We haven't got the rub of the green in that regard at all!

Nice to see youth get a chance, not as nice when you have no choice but to play them whether they are ready or not of course!

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

According to physioroom.

1|Borthwick-Jackson|Illness
2|Rooney|Knee Injury
3|Darmian|Dislocated Shoulder
4|Fellaini|Hamstring Injury
5|Varela|Knock
6|Januzaj|Hamstring Injury
7|Jones|Knock
8|Young|Groin/Pelvis Injury
9|Schweinsteiger|Knee Injury
10|Rojo|Dislocated Shoulder
11|Valencia|Ankle/Foot Injury
12|Shaw|Broken Leg

Jesus.

StringerBell · 18-02-2016 11:06AM

bangkok wrote: »

remember this line up.... think it was v Leicester away front 6 looked class on paper... the rest is history

Do you deliberately not address peoples point when you respond or is it something that comes naturally?

Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2015 Mod Note Post #2331

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