Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2015 Mod Note Post #2331

user2011 · 15-02-2016 11:24PM

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

He definitely deserves more time. But he needs to start playing like a footballer and not behaving like a superstar off the field. Jack Grealish was dropped for the going to London partying after they lost a game this season - Depay did the same on Saturday. He, like everyone, should have been told to get their heads down and sort themselves out for the next game.

LvG probably gave him time off, he could've been tired seems to be the thing you do, go to London and let the hair down to recharge the batteries.

Discodog · 15-02-2016 11:36PM

The Memphis situation is strange given that LvG knows him so well. Maybe that's the problem & a new manager might get more out of him.

Rayne Wooney · 15-02-2016 11:42PM

I still can't get over the Chelsea game and that pass, Depay needs to get it together next season he has been given a free pass this season really

I haven't warmed to him at all, I think the number 7 jersey needs to be earned the next time it's vacant

The_Kew_Tour · 15-02-2016 11:49PM

bucketybuck wrote: »

Sure, I remember some people trying to spin a narrative about this gangly kid who couldn't survive a high ball, and it was a load of tosh. And "mistake after mistake" makes it sound like he was a constant liability for us and it simply isn't true, he made some mistakes, sure, but in the main he played well.

I have no problem giving Depay a chance, thats not my point, simply that the Depay and De Gea scenarios aren't really the same because De Gea never actually played that badly, whereas Depay has been muck.

He was cause of defeats, he did play badly, that's just not true saying he did not play badly.

But people saw his potiential, people saw he was only a kid, people saw he was going to make mistakes and that if he learned and improved he become a top keeper, which he has. Same will happen to Depay if he given time.

Canadel · 16-02-2016 01:53AM

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

He was cause of defeats, he did play badly, that's just not true saying he did not play badly.

But people saw his potiential, people saw he was only a kid, people saw he was going to make mistakes and that if he learned and improved he become a top keeper, which he has. Same will happen to Depay if he given time.

I've never once seen De Gea look disengaged and disinterested like Depay has been at times. De Gea seemed altogether more mature and determined to improve as a kid than Depay does now. Depay deserves time, but only if he shows the desire to make use of it.

J. Marston · 16-02-2016 01:55AM

user2011 wrote: »

LvG probably gave him time off, he could've been tired seems to be the thing you do, go to London and let the hair down to recharge the batteries.

Probably, he's been running himself into the ground lately.

Thecon21 · 16-02-2016 03:02AM

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

He was cause of defeats, he did play badly, that's just not true saying he did not play badly.

But people saw his potiential, people saw he was only a kid, people saw he was going to make mistakes and that if he learned and improved he become a top keeper, which he has. Same will happen to Depay if he given time.

I agree De Gea made mistakes which were costly of course being a GK but we definitely cannot say the same will happen to Depay as did with DDG..

DDG looked to have the will and desire and attitude to improve, become the best, he did improve as the season went on too..

Depay does not have the same desire or attitude imo, at this time, which I hope will swiftly change as there is definitely a big talent in there, but a lot needs to change in himself for him to start realising it..

Strumms · 16-02-2016 03:30AM

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

I still can't get over the Chelsea game and that pass, Depay needs to get it together next season he has been given a free pass this season really

I haven't warmed to him at all, I think the number 7 jersey needs to be earned the next time it's vacant

too much is made of that pass to be honest, . If you want to take a look at Memphis its his lack of work rate or interest in tracking back and his application in the tackle. When it goes tits up he really looks like he could not give a ****. A total liability at present. He has a great opportunity at this club to become something great as I believe the raw talent is there in my own humble opinion from what I have seen, but I wouldn't trust him not to cost us on the field at the minute unless he was played up top on his own and without the responsibility of defending his own box from time to time.... he strikes me as a young arrogant immature prick who really needs to get it together... If he put the same effort on the pitch as he does on his social media when it comes to selfies and bigging himself up etc.. ok its all about 'brand' but some use that will be when he is shipped off to Crystal Palace....

tinofapples · 16-02-2016 07:18AM

Nicky Butt appointed academy boss.

Cookie_Dough · 16-02-2016 07:23AM

http://www.manutd.com/en/News-And-Features/Club-News/2016/Feb/nicky-butt-appointed-manchester-united-head-of-academy.aspx

Utd website confirmed Butt head of youth academy. Good call IMO

Mitch Connor · 16-02-2016 07:39AM

Cookie_Dough wrote: »

http://www.manutd.com/en/News-And-Features/Club-News/2016/Feb/nicky-butt-appointed-manchester-united-head-of-academy.aspx

Utd website confirmed Butt head of youth academy. Good call IMO

On what grounds is it a good call?

I'm not saying it isn't - but at the same time it raises questions, imo.

After a supposed year long review of the youth academy United have decided it is best that one of the pivotal roles goes to a person with zero experience in such a position. Is Nicky Butt really the best candidate they could find, or have they simply settled for him? On what grounds has it been decided that Nicky Butt is the right man to drive the change that is needed at youth level? Do the people who made this decision understand what needs to be done?

It could turn out that Nicky Butt is brilliant at the role, but I can't help but feel we have basically done what people argue the club should not do with the first team. Handing the role to an ex-player who has a good rep at the club (Giggs and first team manager).

There is currently little evidence to suggest Butt is a good call - he could turn out to be but we have given a very important role to a person whose experience of developing young players is limited to assistant manager of youth sides (occasionally) and management of the U19 side (occasionally).

RVD420 · 16-02-2016 07:52AM

Cookie_Dough wrote: »

http://www.manutd.com/en/News-And-Features/Club-News/2016/Feb/nicky-butt-appointed-manchester-united-head-of-academy.aspx

Utd website confirmed Butt head of youth academy. Good call IMO

16-02-2016 08:14AM

^

This thread could do with more of this cheer

Cookie_Dough · 16-02-2016 08:18AM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

On what grounds is it a good call?

I'm not saying it isn't - but at the same time it raises questions, imo.

After a supposed year long review of the youth academy United have decided it is best that one of the pivotal roles goes to a person with zero experience in such a position. Is Nicky Butt really the best candidate they could find, or have they simply settled for him? On what grounds has it been decided that Nicky Butt is the right man to drive the change that is needed at youth level? Do the people who made this decision understand what needs to be done?

It could turn out that Nicky Butt is brilliant at the role, but I can't help but feel we have basically done what people argue the club should not do with the first team. Handing the role to an ex-player who has a good rep at the club (Giggs and first team manager).

There is currently little evidence to suggest Butt is a good call - he could turn out to be but we have given a very important role to a person whose experience of developing young players is limited to assistant manager of youth sides (occasionally) and management of the U19 side (occasionally).

Well I would (like to) think he learned something from being Joyce's assistant and from McClair before he left. Also he obviously would know the running of things as he came through the academy. I assume the club thought about it and deemed him to be the best man for the job, as you have said and I agree that remains to be seen.

Hopefully it was a decision the club made with their heads and best judgement. Surely if they are restructuring or whatever they have put a lot of thought into the decision going forward.

brinty · 16-02-2016 08:29AM

M!Ck^ wrote: »

^

This thread could do with more of this cheer

I like your style sir...

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bucketybuck · 16-02-2016 08:30AM

Cookie_Dough wrote: »

Well I would (like to) think he learned something from being Joyce's assistant and from McClair before he left. Also he obviously would know the running of things as he came through the academy. I assume the club thought about it and deemed him to be the best man for the job, as you have said and I agree that remains to be seen.

Hopefully it was a decision the club made with their heads and best judgement. Surely if they are restructuring or whatever they have put a lot of thought into the decision going forward.

It's a valid point though, the reasons for and against Butt getting the job are exactly the same as regarding Giggs getting the first team job. As an indication of how the board thinks this might be very worrying.

This club keeps creeping down that "Liverpool" path, and always turning back to the well of old boys and club legends is remarkably similar to the old "bootroom" mentality that held Liverpool back for so long.

Is Butt the very best person for that role or was he an easy option? Is he there on merit or was it a case that the board didn't know who to get so went with what they did know? I don't know the answer, but I do wonder why it took a full year to appoint Nicky Butt to that role, only a few days after promising the shareholders that big moves were afoot... I wonder how many people were interviewed for the position?

Mitch Connor · 16-02-2016 08:40AM

bucketybuck wrote: »

I wonder how many people were interviewed for the position?

Seemingly Chris Casper, Michael Appleton and the head of the Spurs Academy were all considered. Appleton and the Spurs fella rejected it. Don't know if Casper rejected it or just wasn't hired. Also talk Butt was offered it a while ago but rejected it.

Could be that the appointment of Butt is not entirely related to the year long review of the structures - in that if he was offered the job previously then maybe the club wanted him in place (or someone in the position Butt is now in) with other changes still being made around that.

Obviously I wish Butt well, but I do think the appointment raises questions (that we can't answer) and no matter who was appointed, a lot of work is still required. I know people in the game speak very highly of Butt, so it would appear he is not an idiot - he will likely see the failings of the system - so I hope he is giving the backing to drive change.

bucketybuck · 16-02-2016 08:54AM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Could be that the appointment of Butt is not entirely related to the year long review of the structures

I also have an issue with things like this, it does not take a full year to "review" our youth structures. Companies with divisions of thousands of staff can carry out full internal reviews in less time than that.

The official website doesn't list any of the youth coaches or scouts, how many staff are we talking here? A dozen? 2 dozen? If it takes you a full year to do a review of a department that size then it wasn't a priority.

Donnielighto · 16-02-2016 08:54AM

I'll probably get a card for this but I'm more of a lurker anyway nowadays. There is a very obvious bridge resident here, some of the heads here should do their duty and put a stop to the really obvious muck.

Mitch Connor · 16-02-2016 08:57AM

bucketybuck wrote: »

I also have an issue with things like this, it does not take a full year to "review" our youth structures. Companies with divisions of thousands of staff can carry out full internal reviews in less time than that.

The official website doesn't list any of the youth coaches or scouts, how many staff are we talking here? A dozen? 2 dozen? If it takes you a full year to do a review of a department that size then it wasn't a priority.

Well yeah, there is that. the club claim a year, but it is very possible that the process has only become a priority of sorts due to the media attention in the last couple of months on it.

bangkok · 16-02-2016 09:29AM

Nicky Butt is an excellent choice to run the academy. Who better to do the role than an actual player that has come through the academy and knows exactly what it takes to break into the United first team.

Donnielighto · 16-02-2016 09:30AM

bangkok wrote: »

Nicky Butt is an excellent choice to run the academy. Who better to do the role than an actual player that has come through the academy and knows exactly what it takes to break into the United first team.

Someone we know can coach?

Van.Bosch · 16-02-2016 09:34AM

bangkok wrote: »

Nicky Butt is an excellent choice to run the academy. Who better to do the role than an actual player that has come through the academy and knows exactly what it takes to break into the United first team.

So by that logic would Wes Brown be a good choice? Not all pupils make good teachers.

We all hope he does but I would question the process.

brinty · 16-02-2016 09:38AM

Some people are going to criticize no matter what is done at the moment
Fair play to Mitch who reason out his disapproval but said he could and hopes to be proven wrong
I'm not saying this is a great appointment but who do people want in the role?? The guys behind the academy previously like Eric Harrisson, Jimmy Ryan, Paul McGuinness did sterling work and weren't known players but worked their ways up through the youth system. Butt-y has been involved for the last 18 months or so doing likewise so he could well be the best guy for the job..

There's just no pleasing some people at the moment unfortunately

RedemptionZ · 16-02-2016 09:39AM

Terrible trend putting ex players in high level coaching positions that they are unqualified to have. Let them earn their stripes.

Coat22 · 16-02-2016 09:44AM

The Butt appointment just shows how much crap is being spouted in the papers and how little is actually known about what is going on at OT.

According to everyone and their wife in the press Woodward is trying to lessen the influence of the "Class of '92" and therefore completely against the idea of Giggs taking over from VG.

Then Woodward goes and appoints Butt as academy director.

The whole saga is, as buckety says, starting to smell more and more of Liverpool and their boot room crap that got them into so much trouble.

Giggs to be the next announcement?

bangkok · 16-02-2016 09:58AM

Van.Bosch wrote: »

So by that logic would Wes Brown be a good choice? Not all pupils make good teachers.

We all hope he does but I would question the process.

eh no, maybe you didn't realise that Wes Brown is still playing football and is contracted to Sunderland.

Nicky Butt has got his coaching badges, has experience coaching the U19, knows what it takes to play at the highest level, was spoken very highly by Fergie to go into coaching and at Newcastle Chris Houghton said he is ideal to go into coaching. What more do people want??

The_Kew_Tour · 16-02-2016 10:01AM

Tbf Butt has his badges. He seems like grounded lad, who won't be big headed, but also a Club Legend.

He has to start somewhere and I think Youths is good start

I welcome the appointment.

StringerBell · 16-02-2016 10:05AM

Its always gotta be the negative slant right, always.

Butt is an odd choice on paper alright, but he is thought very highly of in the game of football (in relation to his intelligence and knowledge, a natural coach), he knows the club inside out and he has a ****ing passion for it.

La Masia director since 2002 is a former hockey goalkeeper with to my knowledge, zero football experience whatsoever. He seems to be doing an alright job so maybe not having the most obvious resume to the public in general doesn't mean you are a silver medal appointment, or a "boot room" imitation job.

Of course it is not going to mean Butt is guaranteed to be a huge success, it is merely one example, since it is the most heralded youth academy in the world currently, that suggests other qualities are perhaps more vital then an extensive amount of coaching experience or indeed, footballing experience.

Tell ya one thing though, the appointment by Woodward, of Butt, to a prominent position at the club must be mind bending for those who like the soap opera theory of a power struggle between the Sith Lord Woodward and the Jedi Knights Fergie/Giggs, Class of 92!! Shakes that theory to the very core I would think.

markcahill1985 · 16-02-2016 10:05AM

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Tbf Butt has his badges. He seems like grounded lad, who won't be big headed, but also a Club Legend.

He has to start somewhere and I think Youths is good start

I welcome the appointment.

I echo the baove as well, from what I have read he is a very talented coach.

He badly injured himself in a charity game over last few months, tearing his achilles which may have delayed the appointment.

Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2015 Mod Note Post #2331

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