Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread VII: The Fan-base Awakens

Bazzo · 14-02-2016 09:15PM

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Does it really matter where their developmental rugby was played ?

Entirely different world, requirements, development levels, coaching, etc.

Surely at Henshaws age, his time spent playing top flight rugby with and against other full international level players and teams, and with top level full time coaches, is far more influential that where he spent his time at lower levels.

I think BOD played scrum half for a time at school. Darce was a fullback as I remember. Etc.

No, it doesn't matter, I've already said he's probably as good at 13 as he is at 15 these days, I'm just calling someone who's trying to make a point based on makey uppy facts.

awec · 14-02-2016 09:16PM

swiwi_ wrote: »

It's really not. I'm only surprised it has taken this long.

If there's any terrible player management, it's the number of quality centres at Ulster.

Actually, I saw your letter to the Times the other day imploring Connacht to be allowed to take one of your centres. Fair play to you awec, very magnanimous.

If he comes to Leinster and plays 13 pr 15 then yes, it's great.

If he comes and plays 12 it's not so good. He's not a 12. Never has been, never will be.

Buer · 14-02-2016 09:16PM

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Wouldn't say JR is better than the rest. He is good and hopefully he does progress but the hype can be toned down a slight bit... There's been talk of so many guys based on their age grade career and then they don't happen to make it. The hype/pressure put on them is ridiculously OTT....

You're right. I normally don't put any stock in underage performances, really, to be honest as the standard of opposition can be so patchy and lead to completely unrealistic appraisals.

Ryan does look excellent, though, even in a side that has been well beaten where he's managed to stand out.

Hagz · 14-02-2016 09:18PM

Bazzo wrote: »

Grand, you won't mind providing some evidence of that so? Because there's plenty to the contrary. He had played 13 but his main position was 15.

It's not so easy to source reports on interpros from 4-5 years ago never mind Connacht rugby schools games.

However if you look at some of the reports here you'll see that he lined out at 13 for the succesfull 2011 Irish u-18 side. http://www.irishrugby.ie/rugby/fixturesandresults/index.php?includeref=23856&season=2010-2011&team=1650

If you check out this report here you'll see that he lined out at 13 when he lead his school to victory in the Connacht School's Senior Cup final
http://www.advertiser.ie/athlone/article/50390/marist-win-connacht-cup-for-first-time-in-over-30-years

And if that's not enough here's a picture of him playing for the u18s club side in an interpro.

EDIT: Those are some crazy 'makey uppy facts' eh?

Buer · 14-02-2016 09:22PM

awec wrote: »

If he comes to Leinster and plays 13 pr 15 then yes, it's great.

If he comes and plays 12 it's not so good. He's not a 12. Never has been, never will be.

Is it really that important? You might not think he's a 12 but the fact is that he can play there to a high standard. He has been able to perform there at test level, winning MOTM awards in crunch matches such as the England match last year when he had an excellent tournament throughout.

He is well able to play 12 and excel there so it doesn't really matter if he's seen as a 13 or 15. He's 22 years old. Gordon D'Arcy was a full back at that age too. He was nominated for World Player of the Year as a centre two years later.

I suspect if Stuart McCloskey wasn't in contention for the Irish 12 jersey, you wouldn't give the matter a second thought!

The Lost Sheep · 14-02-2016 09:24PM

Hagz wrote: »

It's not so easy to source reports on interpros from 4-5 years ago never mind Connacht rugby schools games.

However if you look at some of the reports here you'll see that he lined out at 13 for the succesfull 2011 Irish u-18 side. http://www.irishrugby.ie/rugby/fixturesandresults/index.php?includeref=23856&season=2010-2011&team=1650

If you check out this report here you'll see that he lined out at 13 when he lead his school to victory in the Connacht School's Senior Cup final
http://www.advertiser.ie/athlone/article/50390/marist-win-connacht-cup-for-first-time-in-over-30-years

And if that's not enough here's a picture of him playing for the u18s club side in an interpro.

EDIT: Those are some crazy 'makey uppy facts' eh?

Also 13 all way through with Buccaneers including 2011 all Ireland clubs(youths) u19 winning team.

http://www.irishrugby.ie/news/7218.php#.VsDiHE2zIdU

errlloyd · 14-02-2016 09:26PM

He's an outstanding talent, reminds of Wesley Fofanna in many ways. I generally agree that 12 is potentially his worst position in attack, but he's a huge defender in that channel.

He needs to work on his passing game.

swiwi_ · 14-02-2016 09:27PM

awec wrote: »

If he comes to Leinster and plays 13 pr 15 then yes, it's great.

If he comes and plays 12 it's not so good. He's not a 12. Never has been, never will be.

He's a better 13 than 12.

Which is not saying he is a poor 12.

The main problem I have with Henshaw and Payne together is that they play like clones of each other.

Ringrose is quite a different player, and could work very well with Henshaw.

It's time Leinster got a break anyway, they have had fairly frugal recruiting success in recent times...

salmocab · 14-02-2016 09:33PM

IF we get Henshaw I think we could still do with a 9 and 10. Hard to see Sexton playing in blue too much next season and with the decline of Reddan and Boss we are going to be quite light at half back. I would be happy enough with McGrath Reddan and say Cooney coming back but with Madigan gone out half is going to be a hassle.

Hagz · 14-02-2016 09:39PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgAcTQpLiQU

irishbucsfan · 14-02-2016 09:41PM

Just wait til' they announce Henshaw and Marmion together. Therell be war!

I believe the IRFU are not happy at all.

Buer · 14-02-2016 09:43PM

Nice to score a cricket score and nil the opposition but, based on those tries, Zebre were utterly pathetic.

Bazzo · 14-02-2016 09:43PM

Hagz wrote: »

It's not so easy to source reports on interpros from 4-5 years ago never mind Connacht rugby schools games.

However if you look at some of the reports here you'll see that he lined out at 13 for the succesfull 2011 Irish u-18 side. http://www.irishrugby.ie/rugby/fixturesandresults/index.php?includeref=23856&season=2010-2011&team=1650

If you check out this report here you'll see that he lined out at 13 when he lead his school to victory in the Connacht School's Senior Cup final
http://www.advertiser.ie/athlone/article/50390/marist-win-connacht-cup-for-first-time-in-over-30-years

And if that's not enough here's a picture of him playing for the u18s club side in an interpro.

EDIT: Those are some crazy 'makey uppy facts' eh?

You said:

Contrary to what a lot of Connacht fans will say, he's a centre by trade and always has been.

Hagz wrote: »

Henshaw came through the system as a 13. He didn't just play a bit at 13, it's the position he came through the underage ranks in. Injury necessitated that he begin his professional career as a full-back but he was always going to end up in the centre and that's where he's always going to play long-term.

He played both positions underage, then broke in to the senior team as a full back. He wasn't moved until Ireland needed him at centre so he wasn't "always going to end up there". Don't forget his move was probably a primary motivator to Eoin Griffin going abroad as he didn't want to be sitting on the bench behind Henshaw. It's not like I have a problem with him at 13 or as a 13, but he's as competent a full back as he is a 13 and making out like he isn't is wrong.

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Just wait til' they announce Henshaw and Marmion together. Therell be war!

I believe the IRFU are not happy at all.

Marmion signed a 2 year deal in November :P

AbusesToilets · 14-02-2016 09:45PM

Some wheels on Kelleher there at the death.

Clegg · 14-02-2016 09:48PM

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Some wheels on Kelleher there at the death.

He showed good pace, but was relatively fresh having only played one half of the game. I thought his first break was more impressive.

Disappointed that the highlights cut out the impressive Ringrose break in the lead up to the first try.

fitz · 14-02-2016 09:54PM

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Some wheels on Kelleher there at the death.

Was just about to post about that...serious gas.

errlloyd · 14-02-2016 10:03PM

Great work rate by Ringrose to present the correct option for Cronin there for try 7, delish.

pickarooney · 14-02-2016 10:04PM

CatFromHue wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4MJceJQd4I

What a try and what a jersey!

If ever there was a man who could pass that na Fianna test...

When Oisín is in his very early teens, he returns to the Fianna and asks to join them. He undergoes the challenges, running through a forest without disturbing the hair on his head, plucking a thorn out of his foot while running and running under a branch no taller that his knees while the rest of the Fianna are chasing him, as well as being buried in sand up to his waist and avoiding all the spears thrown at him by the rest of the band

Hagz · 14-02-2016 10:15PM

Bazzo wrote: »

He played both positions underage, then broke in to the senior team as a full back. He wasn't moved until Ireland needed him at centre so he wasn't "always going to end up there". Don't forget his move was probably a primary motivator to Eoin Griffin going abroad as he didn't want to be sitting on the bench behind Henshaw. It's not like I have a problem with him at 13 or as a 13, but he's as competent a full back as he is a 13 and making out like he isn't is wrong.

I said he’s always been a centre by trade. You and another poster then proceeded to inform me that he’s "always been a full-back" and that he played "mainly 15" at underage level. Great examples of what I meant when I said "contrary to what a lot of Connacht fans will say". I then corrected you and that poster by informing you that in fact 13 is where he mainly played at underage level. You asked for evidence, I provided.

You say he played both positions underage? Sure. He played 15 for the u20s one time in the u20 6nations of 2013. Can you inform me of any other time he lined out at underage level at 15?

You say he broke into the senior team as a full back? No denying that. But is it not true that his first 4 appearances for Connacht were at outside centre? Is it not true that he earned his first ever start for Connacht at outside centre? Before Gavin Duffy suffered a season ending injury, Henshaw was very much being groomed for that outside centre position.

You say he wasn’t moved till Ireland needed him to be? I disagree. As I mentioned, he was initially being drip fed game-time in that outside centre position. And even after he made his break on the back of Gavin Duffy’s injury, and before the arrival of Aki and Muliaina, he was still getting game-time in the centre.

I’m sure you don’t have a problem with him at 13. I never suggested otherwise. I simply stated that he has always been a centre by trade. Does that mean he can’t be a full-back? Of course not. But the notion that Robbie is a full-back who has been moved to the centre position is not an honest one. That was all I was pointing out.

Bazzo · 14-02-2016 10:55PM

Hagz wrote: »

I said he’s always been a centre by trade. You and another poster then proceeded to inform me that he’s "always been a full-back" and that he played "mainly 15" at underage level. Great examples of what I meant when I said "contrary to what a lot of Connacht fans will say". I then corrected you and that poster by informing you that in fact 13 is where he mainly played at underage level. You asked for evidence, I provided.

You say he played both positions underage? Sure. He played 15 for the u20s one time in the u20 6nations of 2013. Can you inform me of any other time he lined out at underage level at 15?

You say he broke into the senior team as a full back? No denying that. But is it not true that his first 4 appearances for Connacht were at outside centre? Is it not true that he earned his first ever start for Connacht at outside centre? Before Gavin Duffy suffered a season ending injury, Henshaw was very much being groomed for that outside centre position.

You say he wasn’t moved till Ireland needed him to be? I disagree. As I mentioned, he was initially being drip fed game-time in that outside centre position. And even after he made his break on the back of Gavin Duffy’s injury, and before the arrival of Aki and Muliaina, he was still getting game-time in the centre.

I’m sure you don’t have a problem with him at 13. I never suggested otherwise. I simply stated that he has always been a centre by trade. Does that mean he can’t be a full-back? Of course not. But the notion that Robbie is a full-back who has been moved to the centre position is not an honest one. That was all I was pointing out.

Sure, here he is for Ireland u20s at full back(the one you referred to):

http://www.the42.ie/irelanf-u20-england-henshaw-first-start-786289-Feb2013/

And he lined out for the Marist at full back here:

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/rugby/battling-cup-win-for-marist-143470.html

His first cap for the senior Irish team against the USA was also at 15.

Look, this is all kind of a pointless argument anyway, the main point I was making was that I think he's better wearing the 13 OR 15 jersey because he's much better in attack with the extra bit of space.

aimee1 · 14-02-2016 11:26PM

Foley on the42 quoted saying henshaw not joining munster.

vienne86 · 14-02-2016 11:48PM

aimee1 wrote: »

Foley on the42 quoted saying henshaw not joining munster.

Must be Ulster so!

aimee1 · 14-02-2016 11:49PM

vienne86 wrote: »

Must be Ulster so!

Mccloskey, L Marshall and payne to leinster so

RichieRich89 · 15-02-2016 03:14AM

Buer wrote: »

The RB (who are around 90kg) might be running it into those guys 20 times a game which is a ridiculous level of punishment and rugby players don't really have a similar scenario.

Those defensive players are much more powerful and explosive than anything we see in rugby. For context, Von Miller won MVP in the Superbowl and plays linebacker. He's 113kg. He ran the 40 yard dash in 4.49 seconds in his NFL combine. Usain Bolt, the fastest man to ever live, has a split of 4.35 seconds at 40 yards. So, Von Miller, who is fractionally heavier (but shorter) than Paul O'Connell, can be pretty much up to Olympic sprinting speed when in full flight, making a hit.

I think flankers are going to be fine for a while yet. Hits are getting bigger and we are seeing retirements at an earlier age but they're not commonplace yet. The likes of McLaughlin and Leamy still stick out in the bigger picture.

They time it differently in American football, with the timer starting after the player starts. If you put this Von Miller guy in a 100m track race where he had to react to the gun he wouldn't be getting to the 40y point in 4.49. The existence of times in the 4.2 range for the fastest football players is proof enough of the difference in timing techniques

stephen_n · 15-02-2016 09:56AM

Henshaw is definitely coming to Leinster. That comes out of the Connacht camp but apparently isn't due to be announced till after the 6N. It's strange that Connacht announced his departure.

Buer · 15-02-2016 10:04AM

stephen_n wrote: »

Henshaw is definitely coming to Leinster. That comes out of the Connacht camp but apparently isn't due to be announced till after the 6N. It's strange that Connacht announced his departure.

PR move I can only assume to separate the idea that he's choosing another province over his own?

DGRulz · 15-02-2016 10:09AM

Buer wrote: »

PR move I can only assume to separate the idea that he's choosing another province over his own?

Some would argue that he is picking his own province :pac:

vienne86 · 15-02-2016 10:33AM

DGRulz wrote: »

Some would argue that he is picking his own province :pac:

Well he can call the shots. So long has he isn't going oveseas, that's what matters.

former total · 15-02-2016 10:35AM

vienne86 wrote: »

Well he can call the shots. So long has he isn't going oveseas, that's what matters.

I think it's a gag, playing on the fact that he's from Athlone, half of which is in Leinster.

irishgrover · 15-02-2016 10:36AM

DGRulz wrote: »

Some would argue that he is picking his own province :pac:

only those that are ****ing clueless about rugby :pac:

Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread VII: The Fan-base Awakens

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