Strong garda presence at Galway Airport amid illegal Traveller encampment

13-02-2016 02:42PM

Negative_G wrote: »

I whole heartedly commend and support the residents in Carrickmines for their actions. I wouldn't want them living beside me in a million years regardless of the circumstances.

But that whole "I wouldn't want them living next to me" is hardly a yardstick for how we should treat people.

I wouldn't want 10 families from Oliver Bond flats moving in next door, what does that say about Dublin people?

wexandproud · 13-02-2016 02:46PM

Graces7 wrote: »

This week here in Killarney this has come to light....http://www.independent.ie/regionals/kerryman/news/killarney-travellers-in-dire-living-conditions-27362480.html The photos showed how bad this is and with children there. These properties are owned by the council who have whether you approve of that or not, taken responsibility for the travellers living accommodation. A responsibility which they are shamefully neglecting , which in itself is discrimination. Children are at risk. Shameful indeed. But then they are only Travellers? Small wonder there are problems when they are treated like this. And who can forget or forgive Carrickmines? Treating grieving families like that.

not going to comment on conditions in killarney as i cant see the pics , but any halting sites i have ever seen are filthy kips and all created by themselves . Horses and dogs wandering around sh1tting everywhere ,scrap metal , rubbish and all the other trappings of their culture fcuked around everywhere . like i said in my other post , what about their responsibilitie's to clean up their own filth instead of creating filthy conditions and crying awh look at us poor travellers subject to council discrimination again

galljga1 · 13-02-2016 02:48PM

Deleted User wrote: »

But that whole "I wouldn't want them living next to me" is hardly a yardstick for how we should treat people.

I wouldn't want 10 families from Oliver Bond flats moving in next door, what does that say about Dublin people?

I know one chap from the Oliver Bond flats pretty well and he is decent. In my experience of dealing with travellers I have never met a decent one.

13-02-2016 02:49PM

Sergio Georgini wrote: »

In my opinion, the single biggest issue is the lack of willingness to engage in education. If your culture involves pulling all kids out of education at a young age, of course they will statistically be far more likely to be unemployed or engaging in crime - because you've denied them the opportunity of any other life.

Pulling children out of education is child abuse and it denies the child a chance to ever know anything about the world outside of an extremely myopic view of how the world is. And I feel this is particularly pertinent with the females, as they become trapped and essentially enslaved to the men without education providing the tools for a chance of any independent life.

Education is a complex one, the are reasons for their distrust again built up over decades of abuse and marginalisation. They don't want their children bullied, mixing with settled people, having the whole settled culture imposed, the parents themselves if they attended school were often segregated from other children, the whole attendance issue is a problem etc. etc.

wexandproud · 13-02-2016 02:51PM

Deleted User wrote: »

But that whole "I wouldn't want them living next to me" is hardly a yardstick for how we should treat people.

I wouldn't want 10 families from Oliver Bond flats moving in next door, what does that say about Dublin people?

it show's that you think no differently than the rest of us , only its a different group of people we don't want beside us

13-02-2016 02:52PM

wexandproud wrote: »

any halting sites i have ever seen are filthy kips and all created by themselves . Horses and dogs wandering around sh1tting everywhere ,scrap metal , rubbish and all the other trappings of their culture fcuked around everywhere...

Like poorer areas in many cities across the planet so?

13-02-2016 02:54PM

wexandproud wrote: »

it show's that you think no differently than the rest of us , only its a different group of people we don't want beside us

Em...I think the point went completely over your head.

I'll go again.

I don't want groups from many sectors living next to me. I don't want 10 families of musicians living next to me. But that's not because musicians are bad people. The whole "living next door" is simply an utterly nonsense way of measuring people.

13-02-2016 02:55PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Education is a complex one, the are reasons for their distrust again built up over decades of abuse and marginalisation. They don't want their children bullied, mixing with settled people, having the whole settled culture imposed, the parents themselves if they attended school were often segregated from other children, the whole attendance issue is a problem etc. etc.

Not good enough. If people can come to Ireland from war torn regions and succeed educationally, not even speaking English in many cases, then a traveler can too.

wexandproud · 13-02-2016 02:57PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Like poorer areas in many cities across the planet so?

no . different thing all together . halting sites are inhabited by extended families no outsiders going in to make a mess

Negative_G · 13-02-2016 02:57PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

But that whole "I wouldn't want them living next to me" is hardly a yardstick for how we should treat people.

I wouldn't want 10 families from Oliver Bond flats moving in next door, what does that say about Dublin people?

No, maybe it doesn't fit in with the liberal PC world that we live in now.

The fact remains. If I educate myself, work hard and get a mortgage for several hundred thousand and raise a family to live and abide by societal norms the very last thing I would want is travellers. Why should my quality of life or that of my family suffer because these animals choose to give zero ****s.

The nearest site to my home is about 2 miles away and the result is that my neighbours and I have to always make sure there is someone in one of the houses because they are so rampant with breaking in and stealing.

I don't want to live next to any undesirable element of society, and I don't anyone would. However when you buy a home you can choose not to live in a certain area if you don't want to. However, when a caravan decides to park on the side of the road nearby, there is little you can do.

Mesrine65 · 13-02-2016 02:58PM

I live in a working class council estate in Tallaght.

There is a halting site across the road from the estate the last 20+ years.

The local traveller kids attend school with all the other locals, are members of the local boxing club (at which I am a trainer) & have integrated with the rest of the community quite well.

There are a minority who won't/don't integrate, but the majority do.

What harm?

armaghlad · 13-02-2016 02:58PM

Sergio Georgini wrote: »

Not good enough. If people can come to Ireland from war torn regions and succeed educationally, not even speaking English in many cases, then a traveler can too.

Travellers do.

Small numbers of both.

13-02-2016 03:04PM

Sergio Georgini wrote: »

Not good enough. If people can come to Ireland from war torn regions and succeed educationally, not even speaking English in many cases, then a traveler can too.

😄

The problems travellers face in education is the subject of numerous reports and studies.

I like how you just dismiss it all with a "not good enough, the Syrians can slot in"!

Negative_G · 13-02-2016 03:04PM

Mesrine65 wrote: »

I live in a working class council estate in Tallaght.

There is a halting site across the road from the estate the last 20+ years.

The local traveller kids attend school with all the other locals, are members of the local boxing club (at which I am a trainer) & have integrated with the rest of the community quite well.

There are a minority who won't/don't integrate, but the majority do.

What harm?

How many of them achieve a useful leaving certificate? How many go on to college? There are absolutely no barriers to either except for self imposed ones.

How can you say that its a minority that don't integrate? The very fact they choose not to work, live from social welfare (and other less official means) and live in a caravan is a barrier to integration.

Id be very interested to see the statistics on what percentage of adult travellers work and pay tax and how many have a third level degree.

Negative_G · 13-02-2016 03:09PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

ðŸ˜„

The problems travellers face in education is the subject of numerous reports and studies.

I like how you just dismiss it all with a "not good enough, the Syrians can slot in"!

In my local primary school travellers had their own smaller classes with their own teachers. These teachers did nothing else only work specifically with them. They were provided with books and materials and uniforms and given a hearty lunch every single day.

I often wondered how they could be considered poor when they'd get into a new/nearly new hi ace van when school finished.

What more do you want done for them? Ideas that don't involve pissing more money at the problems because that hasn't worked thus far.

13-02-2016 03:09PM

Negative_G wrote: »

No, maybe it doesn't fit in with the liberal PC world that we live in now...

It's neither liberal nor PC to observe that the whole "living next door" thing is just silly.

Would you like to live next door to 10 families of musicians, concentrating on the tuba and lambeg drums? You wouldn't. But that doesn't mean they should be treated differently as a people. Musicians are humans too!

Would you like it if 10 families of Nigerians moved in? Refugees? Muslims? Jamaicans? Jehovah Witnesses?

13-02-2016 03:13PM

Negative_G wrote: »

In my local primary school travellers had their own smaller classes with their own teachers. These teachers did nothing else only work specifically with them. They were provided with books and materials and uniforms and given a hearty lunch every single day.

I often wondered how they could be considered poor when they'd get into a new/nearly new hi ace van when school finished...

What's the link between the education issues and the choice of vehicle?

galljga1 · 13-02-2016 03:13PM

Negative_G wrote: »

How many of them achieve a useful leaving certificate? How many go on to college? There are absolutely no barriers to either except for self imposed ones.

How can you say that its a minority that don't integrate? The very fact they choose not to work, live from social welfare (and other less official means) and live in a caravan is a barrier to integration.

Id be very interested to see the statistics on what percentage of adult travellers work and pay tax and how many have a third level degree.

I think I have read somewhere that it is 84% unemployment, 80+% leave school by 17, 1% have third level education. I am not going to look this up as I gotta go.

Negative_G · 13-02-2016 03:14PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It's neither liberal nor PC to observe that the whole "living next door" thing is just silly.

Would you like to live next door to 10 families of musicians, concentrating on the tuba and lambeg drums? You wouldn't. But that doesn't mean they should be treated differently as a people. Musicians are humans too!

Would you like it if 10 families of Nigerians moved in? Refugees? Muslims? Jamaicans? Jehovah Witnesses?

If any of those groups were going to affect my quality of life then I wouldn't want them anywhere near me. I don't think I need to explain what constitutes a quality of life in your own home.

I'd take someone playing the trombone at 7am over someone that's more liable to use a child to climb in a small window in my home to steal or have their own home covered in refuse.

13-02-2016 03:16PM

Negative_G wrote: »

If any of those groups were going to affect my quality of life then I wouldn't want them anywhere near me.

Precisely.

And that's why the whole "you wouldn't want them living beside you" is such a useless contribution. There are loads of groups we none of us would like to live beside, it doesn't mean that they should be treated differently by society or they are scumbags.

Negative_G · 13-02-2016 03:18PM

galljga1 wrote: »

I think I have read somewhere that it is 84% unemployment, 80+% leave school by 17, 1% have third level education. I am not going to look this up as I gotta go.

Those figures don't surprise me and if anything I'd have thought unemployment would be higher. Intimidating and exploiting elderly people to tarmac their drive way doesn't constitute as work either by the way.

I wonder would pavee point have the statistics to hand. Probably not, Martin is too busy pointing fingers and avoiding the real issues of criminality, abuse of women, abuse of animals and dumping rubbish.

galljga1 · 13-02-2016 03:21PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Precisely.

And that's why the whole "you wouldn't want them living beside you" is such a useless contribution. There are loads of groups we none of us would like to live beside, it doesn't mean that they should be treated differently by society or they are scumbags.

I have to partly agree with you: they should not be treated differently by society. There should not be any such thing as a halting site. They should live in houses. They should not be traveling the country, illegally parking wherever they think they can get away with it, making sh!t of the countryside wherever they go.

Negative_G · 13-02-2016 03:23PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Precisely.

And that's why the whole "you wouldn't want them living beside you" is such a useless contribution. There are loads of groups we none of us would like to live beside, it doesn't mean that they should be treated differently by society or they are scumbags.

So society should just bend over to suit them? That's essentially what you're saying on the face of it.

You seem fairly hung up on the argument of people living beside you rather than actually addressing any other issues.

13-02-2016 03:26PM

galljga1 wrote: »

I have to partly agree with you: they should not be treated differently by society. There should not be any such thing as a halting site. They should live in houses. They should not be traveling the country, illegally parking wherever they think they can get away with it, making sh!t of the countryside wherever they go.

That sounds like Russia during Communism!

You must live in this house. You can't travel there. Here is your number. Now you are living in a dream society.

Why should anyone live in a house? What about apartments? Tents? Why can't people travel the country? How far should people be allowed to travel? I want to go to a football match next Sunday in Cork, should I have to get permission?

galljga1 · 13-02-2016 03:27PM

Gotta go. I think they are all lovely folk, just misunderstood. We are all wrong, they are oppressed etc etc...Peace, love and understanding.

galljga1 · 13-02-2016 03:28PM

Deleted User wrote: »

That sounds like Russia during Communism!

You must live in this house. You can't travel there. Here is your number. Now you are living in a dream society.

Why should anyone live in a house? What about apartments? Tents? Why can't people travel the country? How far should people be allowed to travel? I want to go to a football match next Sunday in Cork, should I have to get permission?

Pedantic much?

13-02-2016 03:28PM

Negative_G wrote: »

So society should just bend over to suit them? That's essentially what you're saying on the face of it.

😄

Yes, that's exactly what I was saying. It was all about people bending over.

13-02-2016 03:30PM

galljga1 wrote: »

Pedantic much?

I see you haven't bothered defending your own "they must live in houses and not travel" point.

It was a tad ridiculous alright.

Mesrine65 · 13-02-2016 03:31PM

galljga1 wrote: »

Gotta go. I think they are all lovely folk, just misunderstood. We are all wrong, they are oppressed etc etc...Peace, love and understanding.

Intolerant bigot much?

Negative_G · 13-02-2016 03:32PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

ðŸ˜„

Yes, that's exactly what I was saying. It was all about people bending over.

Explain to me what you're trying to say then?

Do you have any intention on addressing any of the issues that have been mentioned in this thread?

Strong garda presence at Galway Airport amid illegal Traveller encampment

Comments