Largest Towns Which are NOT Rail Connected?

The Chieftain · 09-02-2016 11:34PM

Victor wrote: »

Aso, Waterford is rather tangental - there is 3km of mainline (mostly freight only), but it is all on the north side of the Suir and within 400 meters of Kilkenny.

In the traditional scheme of things, no part of the IR network was located in Co. Waterford. The IR station for Waterford and associated lines arelocated in Waterford City, which was a separate county borough onto itself. Of course, in the recent "reforms", city and council have been amalgamated.

The Chieftain · 09-02-2016 11:37PM

Grandeeod wrote: »

Swords by a big distance.

Swords is really just a suburb of Dublin. I think it would be better and keep things more fair if we limit the discussion to traditional separate towns.

Victor · 09-02-2016 11:48PM

The Chieftain wrote: »

Swords is really just a suburb of Dublin. I think it would be better and keep things more fair if we limit the discussion to traditional separate towns.

People use trains. Traditions can't use trains. People in Swords are as entitled as anyone else to use a train.

Swords is not contiguous to Dublin, hence the CSO count it separately.

How would you define "traditional separate towns"?

Banjoxed · 09-02-2016 11:49PM

Victor wrote: »

People get on trains. Counties can't get on trains. Asking the question you do is simplistic and akin to county colours waving. A much better question is "where is less accessible to the railway system?"

Gee Victor, why the tetchiness? Counties are as good a shorthand for subregions in Ireland as anything. In any case a substantial chunk of Ireland is rail free, bounded by the Sligo line, the Belfast line and the Belfast-Derry line. And that was everything to do with the Ulster Unionist politics of the fifties and sixties, and the refusal of the Lemass government in 1965 to fund CIE's rights to run trains from Dublin to Dungannon, Omagh, Strabane and Derry via Portadown. Donegal could have been connected to the network by the simple expedient of retaining and modernising Strabane to Letterkenny.

Elemonator · 10-02-2016 12:08AM

Victor wrote: »

How did you both come up with similar, different wrong answers, quoting the same source? In 2011, the population of Swords was 36,924, with another 5,814 in Kinsealy-Drinan. Even the Swords local authority area (boundaries may have changed) only had 60,583.

People get on trains. Counties can't get on trains. Asking the question you do is simplistic and akin to county colours waving. A much better question is "where is less accessible to the railway system?"

To answer your question. Tyrone. Aso, Waterford is rather tangental - there is 3km of mainline (mostly freight only), but it is all on the north side of the Suir and within 400 meters of Kilkenny. Aside from areas along the border, note that parts of West Cork, Kerry, Clare, Galway are 80-100km to a train station. However, many of these areas are both remote and sparsely populated.

I put a random-sized circle around various stations. [Boards.ie is having issues with attachments.]

According to my census data, at the 2011 census the total urban population of greater Swords was 42,738 but when local electoral area definitions are taken into account, the population is 68,583.

Victor · 10-02-2016 12:15AM

Banjoxed wrote: »

Gee Victor, why the tetchiness? Counties are as good a shorthand for subregions in Ireland as anything.

Because some people think that all countries are directly equivalent and therefore demand equal treatment and resources, but like the lobsters in the pot, drag each other back in, so they all die.

The reality is that Dublin has 40 times the population of Longford. Dublin has the population equivalent of Carlow, Cavan, Clare, Fermanagh, Kilkenny, Laois, Leitrim, Longford, Louth, Mayo, Monaghan, Offaly, Roscommon, Sligo, Waterford and Westmeath put together.

Cork is 9 times the size of Louth. From one end of Cork to the other is the equivalent of Dublin-Belfast.

But no, some people live in counties with no railways. Woe is them.

Banjoxed · 10-02-2016 01:23AM

Victor wrote: »

Because some people think that all countries are directly equivalent and therefore demand equal treatment and resources, but like the lobsters in the pot, drag each other back in, so they all die.

The reality is that Dublin has 40 times the population of Longford. Dublin has the population equivalent of Carlow, Cavan, Clare, Fermanagh, Kilkenny, Laois, Leitrim, Longford, Louth, Mayo, Monaghan, Offaly, Roscommon, Sligo, Waterford and Westmeath put together.

Cork is 9 times the size of Louth. From one end of Cork to the other is the equivalent of Dublin-Belfast.

But no, some people live in counties with no railways. Woe is them.

"All pigs are created equal, but some pigs are more equal than others". I note you didn't engage with my substantive point about official Northern Ireland and official (Republic of) Ireland being directly responsible for the wastelands, but hey ho.

The Chieftain · 10-02-2016 02:41AM

Victor wrote: »

People use trains. Traditions can't use trains. People in Swords are as entitled as anyone else to use a train.

There may be plenty of places in Dublin or Greater Dublin that could do with train service. I just don't think this is the thread for them.

Victor wrote: »

How would you define "traditional separate towns"?

I think I know them when I see them. You probably do too, despite your protestations.

The Chieftain · 10-02-2016 02:43AM

Victor wrote: »

The reality is that Dublin has 40 times the population of Longford. Dublin has the population equivalent of Carlow, Cavan, Clare, Fermanagh, Kilkenny, Laois, Leitrim, Longford, Louth, Mayo, Monaghan, Offaly, Roscommon, Sligo, Waterford and Westmeath put together.

Cork is 9 times the size of Louth. From one end of Cork to the other is the equivalent of Dublin-Belfast.

But no, some people live in counties with no railways. Woe is them.

LONG LIVE PALERAIL!

NIMAN · 10-02-2016 02:52AM

Technique wrote: »

Apart from Donegal, are there any other counties with no current railway? Fermanagh? Cavan? Monaghan?

We barely have roads up here!;)

elastico · 10-02-2016 08:04AM

Swords is adjacent to the dart though. Less than 2km to a station? It might not have a station in its own name, but 2km is pretty close.

n97 mini · 10-02-2016 10:45AM

Dungarvan, population of around 8000.

Used to have a railway connection to Waterford Plunkett, which was closed and replaced by a bus service from Waterford Plunkett. In CIE's infinite wisdom the bus service was moved out of the station and across the river. Not great for people with bags or suitcases, i.e. the travelling public.

People don't even really use the shiny new bus station, instead they wait across the street in Dooley's Hotel where it's warmer and the service is better.

Yawns · 10-02-2016 10:49AM

Naas - About 20k population.

Sallins is about 3km away which has a station but the town of Naas does not

Yawns · 10-02-2016 10:49AM

Naas - About 20k population.

Sallins is about 3km away which has a station but the town of Naas does not

cgcsb · 10-02-2016 10:54AM

L1011 wrote: »

Letterkenny to Derry and Belfast doesn't have a fraction of the traffic to justify rail. Itd have to be Dublin and not via Coleraine

Yet the road between Belfast and Derry is quite congested at points so obviously there is significant demand for travel along that corridor, it's simply a matter of capturing it for rail through improved services. Extending the line to Letterkenny would involve a mere 30km of track.

n97 mini · 10-02-2016 10:56AM

Yawns wrote: »

Naas - About 20k population.

Sallins is about 3km away which has a station but the town of Naas does not

Similarly Celbridge, population 21,347. Hazelhatch is far enough away to require a feeder bus.

cgcsb · 10-02-2016 10:56AM

ClovenHoof wrote: »

Youghal might be the dark horse here. Not too far from a well rebuilt branch to Midelton with an established service.

Excellent point, the traffic around Youghal can also be horrific and the bus service isn't up to much. Swords is still very much number 1 though, it's a contest for runner up.

cgcsb · 10-02-2016 11:05AM

Grandeeod wrote: »

Swords by a big distance.

Youghal with a population of 7k is not on unless both the town and area between it and Midleton were developed. Just because its beyond a new rail link, doesn't mean it has to happen. In saying that, the alignment should be protected.

Navan. A massive red herring that a lot of people fell for. In the mid 90s a lot of housing development went on and was sold to people on the basis of a new rail link being provided. Considering the amount of green space in Dublin, Navan (along with a lot of other towns near Dublin) should never have been developed the way it was. It was a victim of the BS that went on in Dublin and was exported as far as Longford for example. Navan's problem was that it was originally rail connected via the Clonsilla route so it became a political football among a few TDs and councillors. The funny thing was, none of them actually cared. As of today the route has been severed at many points and a motorway exists (like it or not) that completely negates the need for reinstating the rail line. This motorway was planned and built while the same TDs and councillors were pontificating about the railway.

The problem with the motorway is that it doesn't really do you much good when you are spending up to an hour driving between Cabra Cross and the City Centre and you can't park anywhere anyway. Or if you get a bus that has to merge with normal traffic at Cabra.

A frequent DART service would reliably get you from Navan to City Centre in a little over an hour total each day.

sting60 · 10-02-2016 11:06AM

Swords/Fingal
north co.Dublin has a population of approx 125k which the airport can be incorporated. There is absolutely no place in Ireland that requires a rail more than this area for very obvious reasons.D4 political influence made sure the Luas ran south yet the traffic from above area would be ten times its volume.

cgcsb · 10-02-2016 11:11AM

Technique wrote: »

Apart from Donegal, are there any other counties with no current railway? Fermanagh? Cavan? Monaghan?

Leitrim is technically unserved as Carrick's station is technically in Roscommon. Other than that you have:

Donegal, Tyrone, Fermanagh, Cavan and Monaghan.

That's somewhat due to the economic devastation caused by partition and the troubles.

Meath and Armagh are only served by stations on the periphery of their county boundaries.

sting60 · 10-02-2016 11:14AM

elastico wrote: »

Swords is adjacent to the dart though. Less than 2km to a station? It might not have a station in its own name, but 2km is pretty close.

2km my God you're obviously not from the area.Swords/Final also incorporates the Airport.

cgcsb · 10-02-2016 11:16AM

The Chieftain wrote: »

Swords is really just a suburb of Dublin. I think it would be better and keep things more fair if we limit the discussion to traditional separate towns.

Swords is not continuously urban with Dublin and indeed is older than Dublin. It has become somewhat of a commuter town, but so has Navan and Drogheda.

And the other large Dublin Suburbs are somewhat rail connected, although with poor service. Lucan being a notable exception.

n97 mini · 10-02-2016 11:21AM

cgcsb wrote: »

Leitrim is technically unserved as Carrick's station is technically in Roscommon.

Dromod station is in Co Leitrim.

cgcsb · 10-02-2016 11:29AM

oh right, thought that was in Longford.

n97 mini · 10-02-2016 12:02PM

cgcsb wrote: »

oh right, thought that was in Longford.

No, it was called the Cavan & Leitrim Railway for a reason!

Victor · 10-02-2016 03:54PM

elastico wrote: »

Swords is adjacent to the dart though. Less than 2km to a station? It might not have a station in its own name, but 2km is pretty close.

4.9 km from Malahide Station to Swords Garda Station: https://www.google.ie/maps/dir/53.4503258,-6.1563582/53.456459,-6.2214179/@53.4549897,-6.2260956,13z

3.2 km to Waterside (they'll claim to be Malahide).

7.9-8.2 km to Brackenstown / Applewood.

n97 mini · 10-02-2016 05:23PM

elastico wrote: »

Swords is adjacent to the dart though. Less than 2km to a station? It might not have a station in its own name, but 2km is pretty close.

2km from Malahide station will still have you in Malahide, around Seabury.

Del.Monte · 10-02-2016 05:38PM

n97 mini wrote: »

Dromod station is in Co Leitrim.

Dromod has two stations - scandalous waste of resources.

tabbey · 11-02-2016 09:05AM

cgcsb wrote: »

Swords is of course the winner here with a 69,000 population (2011 census) and growth projections putting it into 6 digits in the near future. What makes Swords situation worse is it's proximity to and therefor commuter demand for trips to Dublin City and Dublin Airport. The other towns in question are generally not commuter towns, perhaps with the exception of Navan.

I am at a loss to understand where this figure came from.

The CSO census total for the town of Swords in 2011 is 36,924.

Any figure like 69,000 clearly includes either Portmarnock and Malahide, or Donabate and Lusk, both areas served by commuter rail.

I am not denying that Swords is large, and with decent planning, would have had a heavy rail mainline with commuter service, years ago. (City - Santry - Airport - Swords - Drogheda)

tabbey · 11-02-2016 09:10AM

Del.Monte wrote: »

Dromod has two stations - scandalous waste of resources.

It must be admitted that the C&L station has a rather limited service, principally a ghost train.

Largest Towns Which are NOT Rail Connected?

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