Steven Avery (making a murderer) Guilty or innocent?

smash · 09-02-2016 04:33PM

Senna wrote: »

Who has a website that generates revenue!!

The aerial photos is very interesting, pictures probably destroyed and never to see the light of day again.

30 seconds in to this there's an aerial shot, but when it was recorded hasn't been verified. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5oZgZQwoiM&feature=youtu.b

8-10 · 09-02-2016 04:38PM

One of the weirdest things was her brother's TV interview just 1 day after she was reported missing (so no body or anything suggesting a murder yet - just a missing person who they think harm might have come to) along the lines of just hoping they can "move on" and being in the "grieving" process

Usually when people are on tv talking about their missing relative they are giving appeals to them directly to come home or appeal to those holding them. Even when it's apparent something might have happened to cause harm to the person, they generally still act with the hope that they'll be found alive. I think he said something at the end to suggest he hoped she was alive but saying that he's grieving and needs answers in order to move on strikes me as being strange at the least

ScumLord · 09-02-2016 05:46PM

smash wrote: »

Surprisingly there is admittance that there were photographs taken, but none can be located.

American law enforcement likes to think it's CSI, but in reality it would probably be doing well to be the wire.

Supernintento Chalmers · 09-02-2016 06:55PM

Tsipras wrote: »

For the people who think he's innocent:

Would you leave him alone in a room with your Mother??

No way, poor guy has been through enough

MonkieSocks · 09-02-2016 07:09PM

8-10 wrote: »

One of the weirdest things was her brother's TV interview just 1 day after she was reported missing (so no body or anything suggesting a murder yet - just a missing person who they think harm might have come to) along the lines of just hoping they can "move on" and being in the "grieving" process

Usually when people are on tv talking about their missing relative they are giving appeals to them directly to come home or appeal to those holding them. Even when it's apparent something might have happened to cause harm to the person, they generally still act with the hope that they'll be found alive. I think he said something at the end to suggest he hoped she was alive but saying that he's grieving and needs answers in order to move on strikes me as being strange at the least

Is this the interview?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRZMx8bYTPQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_70mbCpnDE

captbarnacles · 09-02-2016 11:20PM

http://www.milwaukeemag.com/2006/05/01/blood-simple/

A few months later, Avery and another man were charged with cruelty to animals after dousing Avery’s cat with gasoline and oil and tossing it into a bonfire at the Avery junkyard. Though he claimed he had nothing to do with the cat’s death, Avery was found guilty and imprisoned for nine months.

The bad blood thickened between Avery and the Manitowoc County Sheriff’s Department in January 1985, when Avery ran a deputy’s wife off the road at gunpoint and tried to force her into his car. The woman, Sandra Morris, was Avery’s cousin and a friend of Manitowoc County Deputy Sheriff Judy Dvorak. Morris had complained to police that Avery had exposed himself in his front yard on several occasions when she drove past his house. Avery let the woman go when she told him her infant daughter was alone in her car.

Avery admitted running Morris off the road and brandishing a rifle. He was sentenced to six years in prison for endangering the safety of another person.

Hadn't seen much mentioned about this charge and sentence.

8-10 · 09-02-2016 11:44PM

captbarnacles wrote: »

http://www.milwaukeemag.com/2006/05/01/blood-simple/

Hadn't seen much mentioned about this charge and sentence.

Yeah people mention his wrongful conviction and 18 years behind bars but neglect to mention that 6 of those were for the above charge, running concurrently with the attempted homicide / sexual assault sentence

I've heard it said in news reports that he's the guy who served 18 years for a crime he didn't commit.

12 years for a crime he didn't commit and 6 for one he did in my book

irishmover · 09-02-2016 11:48PM

captbarnacles wrote: »

http://www.milwaukeemag.com/2006/05/01/blood-simple/

Hadn't seen much mentioned about this charge and sentence.

It was in the documentary. The sentencing wasn't.

captbarnacles · 09-02-2016 11:53PM

The more I read of Avery and his brothers the more sickened I am. LOL at the numbnuts on twitter calling for his release.

Not to mention the domestic violence and apparent molestation of his relations (he has never been charged with that) He has a very low IQ so not being able to understand his motives or the way he went about covering his tracks is perfectly normal.

Azalea · 10-02-2016 03:04AM

Badly Drunk Boy wrote: »

Why is everybody so intrigued by this? Did the internet tell you that you should be?

Likely a large element of that along with the heavy initial marketing, and yes there are other cases involving police corruption... but how many cases are there involving someone who spent several years in prison for a crime they did not commit, and then wind up back in prison for life two or three years later, with very sketchy evidence? That's what makes this case so noteworthy in my opinion.

Also people are watching it due to recommendations, as it is a good programme - compellng viewing. I think miscarriages of justice always stir an interest. I guess just because you have no interest in the story doesn't necessarily mean others must share your view but watch the programme anyway for the craic. There's genuine interest, even if some is due to hype.

Tigger · 10-02-2016 07:41AM

He killed a cat as above it was in the program and I'm glad he's in jail but I still think he was framed twice
Probably by people who thought he did it but framed nonetheless

Azalea · 10-02-2016 09:39AM

Tigger wrote: »

He killed a cat as above it was in the program and I'm glad he's in jail but I still think he was framed twice
Probably by people who thought he did it but framed nonetheless

You're glad he's in jail but you think he was framed?

Azalea · 10-02-2016 09:40AM

captbarnacles wrote: »

The more I read of Avery and his brothers the more sickened I am. LOL at the numbnuts on twitter calling for his release.

Not to mention the domestic violence and apparent molestation of his relations (he has never been charged with that) He has a very low IQ so not being able to understand his motives or the way he went about covering his tracks is perfectly normal.

You're assessing him based on "apparent" stuff?

Rabo Karabekian · 10-02-2016 09:54AM

captbarnacles wrote: »

The more I read of Avery and his brothers the more sickened I am. LOL at the numbnuts on twitter calling for his release.

Not to mention the domestic violence and apparent molestation of his relations (he has never been charged with that) He has a very low IQ so not being able to understand his motives or the way he went about covering his tracks is perfectly normal.

You've nothing to say about the actual case, no? The bit in bold is quite ironic.

ScumLord · 10-02-2016 04:26PM

Azalea wrote: »

You're glad he's in jail but you think he was framed?

I get the impression Tigger thinks he should be sentenced to murder for killing a cat.

captbarnacles · 10-02-2016 09:59PM

Assessing him based on domestic abuse and him ordering a woman into his car at gunpoint? Yes, I am. Burning the cat alive too. All these show him to be a violent man but don't prove murder obviously.

I've read a quite a lot about the case form various sources. I don't think the jury made a mistake in finding him guilty.

MadDog76 · 10-02-2016 10:42PM

captbarnacles wrote: »

Assessing him based on domestic abuse and him ordering a woman into his car at gunpoint? Yes, I am. Burning the cat alive too. All these show him to be a violent man but don't prove murder obviously.

I've read a quite a lot about the case form various sources. I don't think the jury made a mistake in finding him guilty.

That's that then!

I'll email his legal team and inform them of your findings, you Pm a Mod and tell them to close this thread ....... case closed!

Azalea · 10-02-2016 10:48PM

captbarnacles wrote: »

Assessing him based on domestic abuse and him ordering a woman into his car at gunpoint? Yes, I am. Burning the cat alive too. All these show him to be a violent man but don't prove murder obviously.

I've read a quite a lot about the case form various sources. I don't think the jury made a mistake in finding him guilty.

Well *apparent* molestation as you said. I'm certainly not suggesting Avery is a misunderstood angel by the way but he got prison when innocent already, and the evidence is so sketchy for the second case... that I wouldn't be inclined to believe every anecdote.

Earthhorse · 10-02-2016 11:23PM

I think that's part of what makes this case so compelling. Avery is an unsympathetic character in some ways. He may well have killed her too.

We can't just disregard principles of justice because he's an unsavoury character.

nacho libre · 10-02-2016 11:25PM

I don't quite know what to believe anymore. I don't know if he is guilty or not, but it clear based on the evidence put forward by the prosecution that it was sketchy and not enough to convict him
I will say the victims brother, who guessed her mailbox password, seems a sinister individual. I get the impression from interviews he is a cold individual and maybe hiding something. Of course that doesn't make him a murder.

Azalea · 10-02-2016 11:32PM

Wasn't it Teresa's ex along with her brother who said they got into her voicemail? That sure was a weird part of the documentary.

Remember Teresa's boss said she was getting nuisance phone-calls before she died too? Creepy...

captbarnacles · 10-02-2016 11:35PM

I don't think the prosecution have anything to be proud of in how they behaved. They might even have made a hamhanded attempt to tamper with evidence and the 'interview' of the nephew was appalling. I think they got the right result though.

captbarnacles · 10-02-2016 11:47PM

This is worth listening too for a different perspective from the documentary:

http://www.newstalk1130.com/onair/common-sense-central-37717/rebutting-a-murderer-episode-10-14279934/

Earthhorse · 11-02-2016 12:30AM

captbarnacles wrote: »

This is worth listening too for a different perspective from the documentary:

http://www.newstalk1130.com/onair/common-sense-central-37717/rebutting-a-murderer-episode-10-14279934/

It's a terrible analysis. I read the first one of his "rebuttals" too and they're really poor.

Potential Underachiever · 11-02-2016 02:17AM

Earthhorse wrote: »

I think that's part of what makes this case so compelling. Avery is an unsympathetic character in some ways. He may well have killed her too.

We can't just disregard principles of justice because he's an unsavoury character.

Or as I like to say he's an unsAVERY character, I know I know I'm a genius!

Senna · 11-02-2016 02:24AM

I would really hate if his new DA found something that could quash his conviction, he gets out, not retrial and no answers.
I think he done it, but would like a retrial to get a fair judgment.

8-10 · 11-02-2016 08:11AM

captbarnacles wrote: »

I don't think the jury made a mistake in finding him guilty.

If you don't think that they made a mistake finding him guilty of murder, do you also think that they did not make a mistake finding him Not Guilty of mutilating a corpse?

If they correctly found him not guilty of that - who burned the body?

If you think that Steven Avery burned the body, then the jury must have gotten that wrong?

Tigger · 11-02-2016 08:33AM

Azalea wrote: »

You're glad he's in jail but you think he was framed?

ScumLord wrote: »

I get the impression Tigger thinks he should be sentenced to murder for killing a cat.

I think that he was framed but that the people that framed him thought he did it both times.
I'm glad he's in jail cos he burned a cat.
I am fascinated by the length of sentences people get in America

Ri_Nollaig · 11-02-2016 10:41AM

Tigger wrote: »

I think that he was framed but that the people that framed him thought he did it both times.
I'm glad he's in jail cos he burned a cat.
I am fascinated by the length of sentences people get in America

He served 18 years for the first proven wrongful conviction and has been in prison for 11 for the second which is currently pending.

So you are saying 29+ years for killing a cat?

I love my cat too but seriously?
I don't think you'd even get a fine if you did that here. Half the country's scumbags would be locked up every Halloween if it was the case!

Think the documentary showed that he was a colourful character to say the least and probably not the nicest person, i.e. killing the cat and probably other things. But still talking the vast majority of his adult life in prison at this stage. For his own sanity I hope he did the murder as its just unbelievable otherwise.

Tigger · 11-02-2016 10:52AM

Ri_Nollaig wrote: »

He served 18 years for the first proven wrongful conviction and has been in prison for 11 for the second which is currently pending.

So you are saying 29+ years for killing a cat?
I love my cat too but seriously?
I don't think you'd even get a fine if you did that here. Half the country's scumbags would be locked up every Halloween if it was the case!

Think the documentary showed that he was a colourful character to say the latest and probably not the nicest person, i.e. killing the cat and probably other things. But still talking the vast majority of his adult life in prison at this stage. For his own sanity I hope he did the murder as its just unbelievable otherwise.

It's not justice but if burning a cat gets 29 years the the scrotes would probably stop.

Steven Avery (making a murderer) Guilty or innocent?

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