Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Steven Avery (making a murderer) Guilty or innocent?

1…6791112…18

Comments

  • #242
    Senna
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,800 ✭✭✭Senna


    ScumLord wrote: »
    The problem is the documentary at the very least highlights corruption in the entire westconsin legal system, from police all the way up to defence and prosecution working together to convict a minor.

    Brendan's lawyer should be in jail. He got away with undermining the basic tenets of the US legal system. When he was outed in front the the entire country all he got was a slap on the wrist.

    I think the bottom line for a lot of people is they simply don't trust the legal system in that state.

    I agree completely, he deserves a retrial at the very least, but I'm still allowed to give my opinion that I think he did do it.


  • #243
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    Senna wrote: »
    I agree completely, he deserves a retrial at the very least, but I'm still allowed to give my opinion that I think he did do it.
    You think that Brendan did it?


  • #244
    Senna
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,800 ✭✭✭Senna


    smash wrote: »
    You think that Brendan did it?

    That's probably a harder one, I haven't read much about him, but although the TV show did show him being coerced into saying things, he seeming did give a lot of details without being probed that obviously wasn't shown, details that did support other evidence, I think the Jeep being one. I'd like to read his "interrogation" transcript and I'll keep more of an open mind with his case.
    Again if Avery got a retrial, I think they said he would automatically be granted one too.


  • #245
    HardenendMan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 583 ✭✭✭HardenendMan


    Senna wrote: »
    We'll then, how bloody hard is it to take the jury's verdict, the professional bodies who have reviewed the case and don't believe an injustice occurred, or the lengthy appeals process where evidence is reviewed.
    A forum like this is a place for speculation and opinions, it's not a legal institution where laws have to be upheld.

    Oh my god.

    Edit - just seen you believe he deserves a retrial. That's fair enough.


  • #246
    Dr. Mantis Toboggan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,278 ✭✭✭Dr. Mantis Toboggan


    Banjo String wrote: »
    I watched it shortly before Christmas, I reckon he's innocent, the ineptness of the cops was damming in the documentary.

    If you enjoyed that series, watch "the jinx" which is even better (imo)

    That's a great documentary. The Staircase Killer is probably better than both though, IMO.


  • Advertisement
  • #247
    whatawaster81
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 999 ✭✭✭whatawaster81


    Dr. Mantis Toboggan wrote: »
    That's a great documentary. The Staircase Killer is probably better than both though, IMO.

    I'm watching this atm, episode 5, it's thoroughly gripping.


  • #248
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    Senna wrote: »
    That's probably a harder one, I haven't read much about him, but although the TV show did show him being coerced into saying things, he seeming did give a lot of details without being probed that obviously wasn't shown, details that did support other evidence, I think the Jeep being one. I'd like to read his "interrogation" transcript and I'll keep more of an open mind with his case.
    Again if Avery got a retrial, I think they said he would automatically be granted one too.

    http://convolutedbrian.com.s3.amazonaws.com/dassey/13May2006/13May06Transcript.pdf

    Just to add. Page 827 they start dropping clues to him about what happened with the jeep to which he denies involvement, then later they ask what happened and he basically reiterates what they said about it being covered in cardboard and branches.


  • #249
    ScumLord
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    Senna wrote: »
    I agree completely, he deserves a retrial at the very least, but I'm still allowed to give my opinion that I think he did do it.
    I'd agree. As much as the documentary showed a lot of problems, it's not the place to to decide Avery's fate. My main reason for having doubt about Avery at this point is that he's credibility comes from what was basically a good TV thriller.


  • #250
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    ScumLord wrote: »
    I'd agree. As much as the documentary showed a lot of problems, it's not the place to to decide Avery's fate. My main reason for having doubt about Avery at this point is that he's credibility comes from what was basically a good TV thriller.

    Here's some interesting stuff that's only come out over the last few hours:
    https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMurderer/comments/44r0w9/latest_tweet_from_zellner_looks_like_she_has_a/

    And this came out just a few days ago:
    https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMurderer/comments/4490cd/pamela_sturm_didnt_just_find_the_rav4_she_may/


  • #251
    The Raptor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,433 ✭✭✭The Raptor


    MadDog76 wrote: »
    So he cleaned the key, because he's so clever, but he forgot to dispose of it properly, even though he had 5 days to do so, and he also forgot to clean the blood from the car.

    He cleaned the key ....... yes, that makes sense.

    He was also an expert at burning bodies, but made sure to leave some traces so it would get back to him.


  • Advertisement
  • #252
    ScumLord
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    smash wrote: »
    Here's some interesting stuff that's only come out over the last few hours:
    https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMurderer/comments/44r0w9/latest_tweet_from_zellner_looks_like_she_has_a/

    And this came out just a few days ago:
    https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMurderer/comments/4490cd/pamela_sturm_didnt_just_find_the_rav4_she_may/
    I can't wait for Making a murderer 2.


  • #253
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    ScumLord wrote: »
    I can't wait for Making a murderer 2.
    unmaking a murderer?


  • #254
    MadDog76
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭MadDog76


    The Raptor wrote: »
    He was also an expert at burning bodies, but made sure to leave some traces so it would get back to him.

    It amazes me how contradictory people are when discussing the "evidence" in the Avery case .......... people want to explain away holes in the evidence in this case by saying "oh he cleaned that key", he "wore gloves in the car, that's why there's no fingerprints", "he cleaned all of the blood up from his trailer/garage" etc. yet he kept the key in his bedroom, he forgot to wipe the blood from the car, he kept the car on his property, he left the burn barrel/body 20 feet from his trailer etc. .......... he's a criminal mastermind when it suits but murdering white trash when that suits .......... which is it?


  • #255
    ScumLord
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    smash wrote: »
    unmaking a murderer?
    Or they'll say he's the leader of ISIS.


  • #256
    Maximus Alexander
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,080 ✭✭✭✭Maximus Alexander


    smash wrote: »
    unmaking a murderer?

    I was going to go for 'Breaking a Murderer' earlier, but it didn't make enough sense.


  • #257
    Martypants1
    Site Banned Posts: 806 ✭✭✭Martypants1


    I think the cops didn't frame him. I think they really believed he did do it so they fabricated some evidence to make sure they got a conviction.

    I think Bobby Dassey and Scott Tadych did it though.


  • #258
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    Martypants1 wrote: »
    I think the cops didn't frame him. I think they really believed he did do it so they fabricated some evidence to make sure they got a conviction.

    I think Bobby Dassey and Scott Tadych did it though.

    Come again? ...


  • #259
    Keyzer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,331 ✭✭✭Keyzer


    Martypants1 wrote:
    I think the cops didn't frame him. I think they really believed he did do it so they fabricated some evidence to make sure they got a conviction.

    That's called framing someone. What's your understanding of framing someone? Taking a photo of Avery and putting it in a nice frame?


  • #260
    Badly Drunk Boy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,951 ✭✭✭Badly Drunk Boy


    Why is everybody so intrigued by this? Did the internet tell you that you should be? I don't know why people always fall for this hyped-up American stuff. I'm sure you could find equally intriguing cases a lot closer to home, although without the seal of approval of the rulers of the internet.

    These sort of cases don't interest me at all, but if I were into them, I'm sure I find more relevant ones, ones that don't deal with the legal system of a country thousands of miles away.



    "Why don't you just ignore it, then?"

    Well I try to, but it's wrecking my head having to see the thread title every day, and hearing brain-dead people bleating on and on about it.


  • #261
    Martypants1
    Site Banned Posts: 806 ✭✭✭Martypants1


    smash wrote: »
    Come again? ...

    Framing him would mean they knew he didn't do it but wanted a conviction.

    Jerry Buting mentions this exact same thing in episode 7, that the cops didn't frame him but they thought he did do it and needed stronger evidence to prosecute him.

    Everything pointed to Avery, last person to see her..car on his lot..big fire on the night (albeit halloween)..bones behind his house..

    It's a different thing to the "cops didn't like Avery, knew who the real killers were and didn't pursue them."

    If this documentary didn't come out and I was hearing about this story when it happened I'd probably say Avery did it.

    Take for example if it was Bobby Dassey and Scott Tadych that really did it. Imagine if they were the last to see her and had themselves as an alibi and were shady like they were in the documentary. They wouldn't be able to get a conviction because there'd be no evidence.


  • Advertisement
  • #262
    irishmover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,749 ✭✭✭irishmover


    Badly Drunk Boy wrote: »
    Why is everybody so intrigued by this? Did the internet tell you that you should be? I don't know why people always fall for this hyped-up American stuff. I'm sure you could find equally intriguing cases a lot closer to home, although without the seal of approval of the rulers of the internet.

    These sort of cases don't interest me at all, but if I were into them, I'm sure I find more relevant ones, ones that don't deal with the legal system of a country thousands of miles away.



    "Why don't you just ignore it, then?"

    Well I try to, but it's wrecking my head having to see the thread title every day, and hearing brain-dead people bleating on and on about it.

    There's always someone like this on Boards.ie. I don't understand why things like this bother people so much. I see plenty of stuff pop up that I've no interest in on boards everyday but I never feel the need to let everyone know and pretend like I'm the more intellectual.

    Its an internet forum with people from multiple countries. Not just Ireland. This is a big topic for some people who want to discuss it.

    You dont have any interest in it no need to tell everyone you dont. Not a single person here gives a damn.


  • #263
    Flint Fredstone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,519 ✭✭✭Flint Fredstone


    Badly Drunk Boy wrote: »
    Why is everybody so intrigued by this? Did the internet tell you that you should be? I don't know why people always fall for this hyped-up American stuff. I'm sure you could find equally intriguing cases a lot closer to home, although without the seal of approval of the rulers of the internet.

    These sort of cases don't interest me at all, but if I were into them, I'm sure I find more relevant ones, ones that don't deal with the legal system of a country thousands of miles away.



    "Why don't you just ignore it, then?"

    Well I try to, but it's wrecking my head having to see the thread title every day, and hearing brain-dead people bleating on and on about it.

    I suppose you sit at home every night watching Fair City, Ros Na Rún, The Snapper and Into The West?

    If Netflix did a documentary on an Irish case as interesting as this it would get even more attention but they didn't. It's a good watch, like Breaking Bad or whatever else grabs an audience across the globe. Ridiculous post.


  • #264
    MadDog76
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭MadDog76


    Badly Drunk Boy wrote: »
    Why is everybody so intrigued by this? Did the internet tell you that you should be? I don't know why people always fall for this hyped-up American stuff. I'm sure you could find equally intriguing cases a lot closer to home, although without the seal of approval of the rulers of the internet.

    These sort of cases don't interest me at all, but if I were into them, I'm sure I find more relevant ones, ones that don't deal with the legal system of a country thousands of miles away.



    "Why don't you just ignore it, then?"

    Well I try to, but it's wrecking my head having to see the thread title every day, and hearing brain-dead people bleating on and on about it.



  • #265
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    Martypants1 wrote: »
    Framing him would mean they knew he didn't do it but wanted a conviction.
    No, framing him means framing him disregarding what they actually believe.
    Martypants1 wrote: »
    Jerry Buting mentions this exact same thing in episode 7, that the cops didn't frame him but they thought he did do it and needed stronger evidence to prosecute him.
    He didn't say that they didn't frame him.
    Martypants1 wrote: »
    Everything pointed to Avery, last person to see her..car on his lot..big fire on the night (albeit halloween)..bones behind his house..
    Actually there was evidence to suggest a number of people could have been a suspect but they only went after one.
    Martypants1 wrote: »
    It's a different thing to the "cops didn't like Avery, knew who the real killers were and didn't pursue them."
    This is what happened the first time he went to prison...
    Martypants1 wrote: »
    Take for example if it was Bobby Dassey and Scott Tadych that really did it. Imagine if they were the last to see her and had themselves as an alibi and were shady like they were in the documentary. They wouldn't be able to get a conviction because there'd be no evidence.
    You mean apart from the evidence that it was more than likely Scott's fingerprint was found on her car?
    Michael Riddle, a fingerprint examiner with the Wisconsin State Crime Lab, testified there was a fingerprint found on the hood of Halbach's car that did not match Steven Avery. The defense asked if he'd compared it to Scott Tadych, the then boyfriend of Brendan Dassey's mother. The state said it was irrelevant, and the court sustained the objection.

    However, Riddle said that he had compared the prints to those of Avery's dad, his two brothers, his mother, Avery himself, three of the Dassey brothers, Barb Janda and Scott Bloedorn, Halbach's roommate. None of those people matched the mysterious fingerprint. In closing argument, the defense pointed the finger mostly at Bobby Dassey and Scott Tadych.
    Source: http://onmilwaukee.com/movies/articles/makingamurderertouchdna.html


  • #266
    Penn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,540 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    Quite possibly guilty, too hard to tell. But shouldn't have been found guilty based on the trial. There was far too much reasonable doubt.


  • #267
    Senna
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,800 ✭✭✭Senna


    smash wrote: »


    You mean apart from the evidence that it was more than likely Scott's fingerprint was found on her car?


    Source: http://onmilwaukee.com/movies/articles/makingamurderertouchdna.html

    Where does it say it's Scott's fingerprint?


  • #268
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    Senna wrote: »
    Where does it say it's Scott's fingerprint?

    It's speculation based on the fact that the examiner was not allowed to answer the question when asked. The defence listed off a number of people to which the examiner stated the fingerprint was not a match (Avery's dad, his two brothers, his mother, Avery himself, three of the Dassey brothers, Barb Janda and Scott Bloedorn, Halbach's roommate). When the defence asked if it matched Scott's Tadych's, the state said it was irrelevant, and the court sustained the objection.

    This is potential evidence.


  • #269
    Badly Drunk Boy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,951 ✭✭✭Badly Drunk Boy


    Flint Fredstone wrote: »
    I suppose you sit at home every night watching Fair City, Ros Na Rún, The Snapper and Into The West?

    If Netflix did a documentary on an Irish case as interesting as this it would get even more attention but they didn't. It's a good watch, like Breaking Bad or whatever else grabs an audience across the globe. Ridiculous post.

    No, I don't look at any of those. It just seems like what you call "whatever else grabs an audience across the globe", I see more as what people are being told is good, so they have to like it.

    No wonder zombie films/television programmes are so popular nowadays. You're part of the apocalypse...


  • #270
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    Badly Drunk Boy wrote: »
    No, I don't look at any of those. It just seems like what you call "whatever else grabs an audience across the globe", I see more as what people are being told is good, so they have to like it.

    What are you... A 15yr old non-conformist emo?


  • Advertisement
  • #271
    MadDog76
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭MadDog76


    Badly Drunk Boy wrote: »
    No, I don't look at any of those. It just seems like what you call "whatever else grabs an audience across the globe", I see more as what people are being told is good, so they have to like it.

    No wonder zombie films/television programmes are so popular nowadays. You're part of the apocalypse...

    Have you watched the documentary?


Advertisement