Should our prisoners be doing community service like picking up litter?

Terrlock · 03-02-2016 12:27PM

Absolutely, prisoners should definitely have to work to earn their keep.

I'd have them doing a lot more then picking up litter.

Do work that would actually help them rehabilitate, like growing their own food.

As for picking up litter, I'd actually introduce a new rule, instead of silly little fines for people that are caught littering. Anyone found littering, most then do at least a 2 week community service to clean up an area. And I'd enforce this for a while.

I think that would work a lot better then fines.

Hurtbuthealing · 03-02-2016 12:37PM

Sam Kade wrote: »

Hard labour would be the deterrent so less prisoners.

Hard labour, Penal Servitude, hanging, Flogging, all tried, all failed.
Prison, as a punishment is supposed the deprivation of the offenders liberty, nothing else.

smash · 03-02-2016 12:39PM

Can we not just chain them together, give them a pitchfork and make them dig up fields at the side of the M50 for no apparent reason like in the good old days

Terrlock · 03-02-2016 01:43PM

Hurtbuthealing wrote: »

Hard labour, Penal Servitude, hanging, Flogging, all tried, all failed.
Prison, as a punishment is supposed the deprivation of the offenders liberty, nothing else.

Well I think they should at least work to earn their keep and pay back society.

I mean giving them TV's and xbox's to play isn't really fixing anything either.

VisibleGorilla · 03-02-2016 03:25PM

Terrlock wrote: »

I mean giving them TV's and xbox's to play isn't really fixing anything either.

It reduces prison violence.

07Lapierre · 03-02-2016 03:33PM

VisibleGorilla wrote: »

It reduces prison violence.

If you had to grow your own food you'd be too busy to fight! Prisons should be as self sufficient as possible. Anything that reduces the cost to the taxpayers/ crime victims is a good thing.

Muahahaha · 03-02-2016 03:39PM

eh lads prisoners in Ireland are already work. Mountjoy has a huge laundry that services contracts, also some prisoners in there fix computers.

07Lapierre · 03-02-2016 03:40PM

The Randy Riverbeast wrote: »

It would cost more money. If they want to spend money to pick up litter they should give people a job and pay them.

Offer these jobs to prisoners..once there earning they can pay for their accommodation , meals, electricity and the dreaded water charges, just like the rest of us.

Dodge · 03-02-2016 03:44PM

sounds like some of you here think prison life is easy. Bet none of you would swap with them though. Rightly so. I had to visit a prison once with work. It was as close to hell as I could imagine you'd get in Ireland.

Anyone who thinks it's an easy life is talking through their hoop

(and this isn't an argument against tough prisons - just pointing out they already are)

Dodge · 03-02-2016 03:44PM

sounds like some of you here think prison life is easy. Bet none of you would swap with them though. Rightly so. I had to visit a prison once with work. It was as close to hell as I could imagine you'd get in Ireland.

Anyone who thinks it's an easy life is talking through their hoop

(and this isn't an argument against tough prisons - just pointing out they already are)

Stephen Gawking · 03-02-2016 03:49PM

Most of these people wouldn't open their eyes until they're tired of being closed so I don't see how you can force work where wasters are concerned.

Jimoslimos · 03-02-2016 03:51PM

Sam Kade wrote: »

If they ever put prisoners working it should be hard labour like breaking rocks with sledges. It should be work to deter them from going to prison in the first place.

Problem with hard physical labour is that you then need to up their calorie intake - so costs more money. All for a bit of work that could be done with machines in a matter of minutes.

I remember reading or seeing something about prisoners in America (surprisingly a good initiative) who would help with putting out forest fires. It was dangerous physical work but it wasn't mandatory and was seen as a privilege by those who would volunteer. Something like this perhaps might work for some prisoners.

Found the link;
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-34285658

VisibleGorilla · 03-02-2016 04:00PM

07Lapierre wrote: »

If you had to grow your own food you'd be too busy to fight! Prisons should be as self sufficient as possible. Anything that reduces the cost to the taxpayers/ crime victims is a good thing.

The biggest reduction in cost is not having them there in the first place, not 100% but I believe it's close to €70k per year to house a prisoner.

Realt Dearg Sec · 03-02-2016 04:04PM

Dodge wrote: »

sounds like some of you here think prison life is easy. Bet none of you would swap with them though. Rightly so. I had to visit a prison once with work. It was as close to hell as I could imagine you'd get in Ireland.

Anyone who thinks it's an easy life is talking through their hoop

(and this isn't an argument against tough prisons - just pointing out they already are)

Shhh, you're wrecking the right wing ranting with all these facts.

topmanamillion · 03-02-2016 04:30PM

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

You sound like an expert in watching TV shows about prison.

So I'm wrong? Prison officers aren't overwhelmed and scared of some of the people in their custody? Leading to them either being complicit or passing a blind eye to contraband passing through prisons? And giving some of the worst offenders an easy ride?

smash · 03-02-2016 04:31PM

Dodge wrote: »

sounds like some of you here think prison life is easy. Bet none of you would swap with them though. Rightly so. I had to visit a prison once with work. It was as close to hell as I could imagine you'd get in Ireland.

Anyone who thinks it's an easy life is talking through their hoop

(and this isn't an argument against tough prisons - just pointing out they already are)

Yea, but we want them to be tougher! :pac:

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 03-02-2016 04:34PM

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

You sound like an expert in watching TV shows about prison.

So do a lot of people who waffle on comparing them to holiday camps, to be fair

07Lapierre · 03-02-2016 04:35PM

Dodge wrote: »

sounds like some of you here think prison life is easy. Bet none of you would swap with them though. Rightly so. I had to visit a prison once with work. It was as close to hell as I could imagine you'd get in Ireland.

Anyone who thinks it's an easy life is talking through their hoop

(and this isn't an argument against tough prisons - just pointing out they already are)

+1...I've seen the conditions inside...not pleasant, But I suspect when your locked in there for years, you get used to it. it becomes normal. So not working and having everything handed to you also become's normal, which makes it a lot tougher when they get out into the real world.

Pink Fairy · 03-02-2016 04:35PM

Am I the only one who read the title and thought it said pensioners?......

uck51js9zml2yt · 03-02-2016 04:36PM

They could do public workshops on entitled "how not to...(insert crime)"

The Randy Riverbeast · 03-02-2016 04:42PM

07Lapierre wrote: »

Offer these jobs to prisoners..once there earning they can pay for their accommodation , meals, electricity and the dreaded water charges, just like the rest of us.

Leaving someone else on the dole.

07Lapierre · 03-02-2016 04:47PM

The Randy Riverbeast wrote: »

Leaving someone else not in jail and free to look for another job.

FYP

Arbiter of Good Taste · 03-02-2016 05:06PM

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

Shhh, you're wrecking the right wing ranting with all these facts.

Very mature. Just shut down any debate if it disagrees with your "liberal" views. Tolerance only works one way I suppose

Realt Dearg Sec · 03-02-2016 05:15PM

Arbiter of Good Taste wrote: »

Very mature. Just shut down any debate if it disagrees with your "liberal" views. Tolerance only works one way I suppose

What tolerance has been flowing in the other direction?

But OK, you're right, prison is just a holiday camp full of lazy people living it up in their penthouse suites.

kupus · 03-02-2016 05:22PM

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

What we should do is take a serious look at the US model of incarceration and not follow that example.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

The American system operates as a business. No prisoners means no business. There always needs to be prisoeners. Even if they're created.

Like the irish model is one of strawberries and roses.:rolleyes:

THe irish system works as a business as well. repeat offenders means repeat business, so all the free legal aid and assorted hangers on get their slice of the pie.
There always needs to be repeat offenders or else the lawyers wouldnt be doing their jobs right.

Realt Dearg Sec · 03-02-2016 05:48PM

kupus wrote: »

Like the irish model is one of strawberries and roses.:rolleyes:

THe irish system works as a business as well. repeat offenders means repeat business, so all the free legal aid and assorted hangers on get their slice of the pie.
There always needs to be repeat offenders or else the lawyers wouldnt be doing their jobs right.

Lawyers will always find ways to get money, that's what they do. But what they're talking about is that the prisons themselves in some places in the US are run for profit, by using the inmates for cheap labour. This is much more serious than some lawyers putting their snouts in the trough, because it encourages the prison companies to lobby for harsher sentencing, while actual rehabilitation is the opposite of their interest (and indeed they actively boast to shareholders about the high rates of recidivism), and they also force down real wages for law abiding people or simply soak up opportunities for employment, all while reaping massive profits from slave labour and active seeking to criminalise behaviours and make non-violent offences punishable by imprisonment not for any social good (the high rates of incarceration and recidivism are absolutely destroying communities here) but for their own profit.

The Irish system, bad and all as it is, is certainly not a for-profit operation. The lawyers are probably getting their money, don't they always? But the privatisation of prisons has much more serious effects.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 03-02-2016 05:56PM

kupus wrote: »

Like the irish model is one of strawberries and roses.:rolleyes:

THe irish system works as a business as well. repeat offenders means repeat business, so all the free legal aid and assorted hangers on get their slice of the pie.
There always needs to be repeat offenders or else the lawyers wouldnt be doing their jobs right.

Strawman argument, at least in relation to my post.

The Irish prison service is run by the State. That's not always the case in the US.

Repeat offenders here means more taxpayer money being spent on the upkeep of said prisons, not more business - the State is not paid to imprison people!!

The problem with private prisons is that they create a conflict of interests: in order to increase profits, said services need to create demand for their services and the only way to do that, is to get the State to imprison more people. Which in turn, means more prisons are needed, and so on and so on, as per my first post in this thread.

Whatever you say about crime policy, there's no way private industry should be dictating sentencing laws in order to increase profits.

07Lapierre · 03-02-2016 05:59PM

VisibleGorilla wrote: »

The biggest reduction in cost is not having them there in the first place, not 100% but I believe it's close to €70k per year to house a prisoner.

A world with out prisons? nice idea, but never going to happen. In the mean time, I see no reason why prisoners could not get paid to do a lot of work for the benefit of the prison/prison system. As we've already heard, Mountjoy has a laundry service for itself and other prisons. which is great! Any other work that prisoners can do I think should be encouraged, if not compulsory.

Just don't give any of them a Geologist Hammer and a large poster of Raquel Welch!

The Randy Riverbeast · 03-02-2016 06:01PM

07Lapierre wrote: »

FYP

Good thing there are loads of jobs, unemployment isn't high at all. We can spend money making prisoners work just so some people can feel better about themselves instead of creating real jobs.

07Lapierre · 03-02-2016 06:11PM

The Randy Riverbeast wrote: »

Good thing there are loads of jobs, unemployment isn't high at all. We can spend money making prisoners work just so some people can feel better about themselves instead of creating real jobs.

Well if it helps, I was passing an Elvery's Sports shop today and there looking for staff.

Should our prisoners be doing community service like picking up litter?

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