A3s to A2s - upgrading for Ras

Taxuser1 · 28-01-2016 03:52PM #1

http://www.thebikecomesfirst.com/an-post-ras-enforce-a2-category-entry-to-2016-race/

not sure this is accurate ? wouldn't many have had their licenses issued already ?

Hmmzis · 28-01-2016 05:12PM

Wan't this the case already last year? I know that some people had to upgrade at renewal last year to be able to register for the Ras.
Went the same route myself for this year.

Taxuser1 · 28-01-2016 05:17PM

Hmmzis wrote: »

Wan't this the case already last year? I know that some people had to upgrade at renewal last year to be able to register for the Ras.
Went the same route myself for this year.

vague enough - maybe you'll be sent back your A2 license for an A3 one :-)

I'll lead you out, no worries

Smalltom · 29-01-2016 12:04PM

Where does this leave the fella who has 6,7,8 points a3 and has taken the amnesty to a2 so he is eligible for the ras this year? Have they to go back and get the few extra points or get a few points in a2 to show that they are 'capable' of doing the ras?

Leroy42 · 29-01-2016 12:29PM

Won't ever be something to effect me, but would it not make more sense for the Ras to be limited to A1 only?

I'm not advocating it, I don't know enough about it but strikes me as odd that the top UCI ranked event in the country can be taken part in by division 2 cyclists rather than top tier only.

Taxuser1 · 29-01-2016 12:33PM

Leroy42 wrote: »

Won't ever be something to effect me, but would it not make more sense for the Ras to be limited to A1 only?

I'm not advocating it, I don't know enough about it but strikes me as odd that the top UCI ranked event in the country can be taken part in by division 2 cyclists rather than top tier only.

the County teams prize is one of the more coveted prizes in Irish cycling. You take the A2s out and you don't have enough A1s to fill teams. The Ras becomes like any other type of international race.

eeeee · 29-01-2016 12:47PM

Leroy42 wrote: »

Won't ever be something to effect me, but would it not make more sense for the Ras to be limited to A1 only?

I'm not advocating it, I don't know enough about it but strikes me as odd that the top UCI ranked event in the country can be taken part in by division 2 cyclists rather than top tier only.

OT bit the top uci ranked event in the country is the Dublin Track International

Back on topic, You'd hardly get A4 guys signing up to the Ras would you? The rule makes sense for the race I suppose you can't have too big a gap in abilities on the road for safety and logistical reasons?

ETA Why would an A3 sign on anyway if they're a good bit off the pace? To make up numbers for teams? I haven't a clue about how the Ras works, the only people I know that have done it are A1 and seriously strong guys. I don't know how you could justify your entry if you're not even up to the pace of your local competition.

RobFowl · 29-01-2016 01:28PM

gadetra wrote: »

OT bit the top uci ranked event in the country is the Dublin Track International

Back on topic, You'd hardly get A4 guys signing up to the Ras would you? The rule makes sense for the race I suppose you can't have too big a gap in abilities on the road for safety and logistical reasons?

ETA Why would an A3 sign on anyway if they're a good bit off the pace? To make up numbers for teams? I haven't a clue about how the Ras works, the only people I know that have done it are A1 and seriously strong guys. I don't know how you could justify your entry if you're not even up to the pace of your local competition.

I worked on the Ras for 10 years ( I know others have for 40-50!).
My tuppence worth is that many a2 are well capable of riding it and one A3 I know got around comfortably. The problem is with riders who simply aren't capable of it upgrading themselves to ride it and become a "man of the Ras".
A few years ago the race was spread over an hour with riders well spread out. The marshals were stretched beyond the limit and as a medic we we delayed by 2 hours at the finish and simply couldn't have dealt with an accident if it occurred at the back end of the race.
Riders who were getting dropped by the likes of me in sportifs signed up to ride and quite simply embarrassed themselves and made a mockery of the race.
The organisers had to do something and this is the best compromise I can see.
It's not a long hard sportif where you can get around at a decent pace it's an international elite event where future Olympic champions and classic winners are competing. Do yourselves a favour and avoid it unless you are able to finish the likes of the Ras Mumhan in good shape. A3 riders who upgrade themselves and don't score points at a2 level should stay away...

eeeee · 29-01-2016 01:32PM

RobFowl wrote: »

I worked on the Ras for 10 years ( I know others have for 40-50!).
My tuppence worth is that many a2 are well capable of riding it and one A3 I know got around comfortably. The problem is with riders who simply aren't capable of it upgrading themselves to ride it and become a "man of the Ras".
A few years ago the race was spread over an hour with riders well spread out. The marshals were stretched beyond the limit and as a medic we we delayed by 2 hours at the finish and simply couldn't have dealt with an accident if it occurred at the back end of the race.
Riders who were getting dropped by the likes of me in sportifs signed up to ride and quite simply embarrassed themselves and made a mockery of the race.
The organisers had to do something and this is the best compromise I can see.
It's not a long hard sportif where you can get around at a decent pace it's an international elite event where future Olympic champions and classic winners are competing. Do yourselves a favour and avoid it unless you are able to finish the likes of the Ras Mumhan in good shape. A3 riders who upgrade themselves and don't score points at a2 level should stay away...

Makes perfect sense. To be honest I had no idea guts who weren't up to it were entering. That takes a special kind of ignorance and arrogance to do so! It amazes me someone would sign up to it being so very far off the pace, with all its attendant consequences. Incredible that it has to be said even.

Although as you say there are also those well able to take the pace and compete but I suppose they'll get there on merit anyway if they're strong enough?

Smalltom · 29-01-2016 01:51PM

There are strong a3 riders who should possibly be a2 (not me) and just haven't gotten the points and have gone a2 this year. Can they do the ras if they get points a2 or will they have to revert to a3 and qualify the traditional way.

Leroy42 · 29-01-2016 01:56PM

How can there not be enough A1 riders in the country? Top race of the calendar, surely this is the key race for every A1 rider out there?

You should have to qualify for a race such as this, and currently the way we qualify riders is based on their results. You can argue that some A4's should be A1's if it wasn't for those pesky meddling kids!

If we don't have enough A1's then cycling Ireland should be tasking the clubs with coming up with a way to develop them, not lowering the standard.

Those A1's without enough club A1's to make a team should be allowed a guest team participation for the event of regional squads could be considered

Beasty · 29-01-2016 02:13PM

Leroy42 wrote: »

How can there not be enough A1 riders in the country? Top race of the calendar, surely this is the key race for every A1 rider out there?

There are currently just over 100 A1s and nearly 200 A2s

Last year there were just short of 100 IRL licenced riders taking part. Take out those who are not interested in week long stage races, those who are injured and those who do have other priorities and how many A1s are you left with? It seems to me to have a viable race you have to include A2s.

Chips Lovell · 29-01-2016 02:18PM

Leroy42 wrote: »

Top race of the calendar, surely this is the key race for every A1 rider out there?

Only for some. There's a big time commitment involved both in terms of the preparation needed and the amount of holidays you have to use up to do it.

harringtonp · 29-01-2016 08:45PM

RobFowl wrote: »

I worked on the Ras for 10 years ( I know others have for 40-50!).
My tuppence worth is that many a2 are well capable of riding it and one A3 I know got around comfortably. The problem is with riders who simply aren't capable of it upgrading themselves to ride it and become a "man of the Ras".
A few years ago the race was spread over an hour with riders well spread out. The marshals were stretched beyond the limit and as a medic we we delayed by 2 hours at the finish and simply couldn't have dealt with an accident if it occurred at the back end of the race.
Riders who were getting dropped by the likes of me in sportifs signed up to ride and quite simply embarrassed themselves and made a mockery of the race.
The organisers had to do something and this is the best compromise I can see.
It's not a long hard sportif where you can get around at a decent pace it's an international elite event where future Olympic champions and classic winners are competing. Do yourselves a favour and avoid it unless you are able to finish the likes of the Ras Mumhan in good shape. A3 riders who upgrade themselves and don't score points at a2 level should stay away...

Does the cut off not sort this problem out, at least for subsequent stages. Didn't this happen 2 years ago in Kerry and there was a big fuss over it. You'd imagine riders would seriously consider entry if they thought the risk of elimination was high

RobFowl · 29-01-2016 08:55PM

harringtonp wrote: »

Does the cut off not sort this problem out, at least for subsequent stages. Didn't this happen 2 years ago in Kerry and there was a big fuss over it. You'd imagine riders would seriously consider entry if they thought the risk of elimination was high

Even elimination after the fact still makes the stage simply dangerous with marshals/medics etc stretched beyond capacity. Even race radio lost contact with the back of the race.

stecleary · 29-01-2016 09:03PM

Is it not a simpler solution for county riders to qualify a year ahead.
No first year A2s and say 5pts earned the year before to be eligible for the race. Its not as if its a decision made with the toss of a coin if you are going to do it or not

stecleary · 29-01-2016 09:03PM

Is it not a simpler solution for county riders to qualify a year ahead.
No first year A2s and say 5pts earned the year before to be eligible for the race. Its not as if its a decision made with the toss of a coin if you are going to do it or not

killalanerr · 29-01-2016 09:09PM

harringtonp wrote: »

Does the cut off not sort this problem out, at least for subsequent stages. Didn't this happen 2 years ago in Kerry and there was a big fuss over it. You'd imagine riders would seriously consider entry if they thought the risk of elimination was high

As one of Robs minions I agree having the race spread over half of kerry was a H&S nightmare,having the time limit enforced was a big step forward imo,anyone that can't get around one of the easter 3/4 days in good shape are not been honest with themselves but there are some A2s that are well able and as HP says if they are not they will be found out by the time keepers right quick,I think it would take away from the race if the A2s were not there,there are 3 races going on in the ras the one for the yellow,one for the top Irish amateur,and the best one for the guys racing the time keeper,all have there place and add to fabric of the race

tyuis · 29-01-2016 09:11PM

Have to say that i'm more than a little surprised that CI commissions an upgrade based on a request. Surely upgrades should only happen when the required number of points have been accumulated. The rider has to earn their place in the Rás and proving that they can compete in an A3 race and win enough points to go A2 will put the rider in a better position to become a man of the Rás. Unfortunately I have never competed at home but in the British Cycling system, I cant imagine this ever happening!!

A3s to A2s - upgrading for Ras

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