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Issue with solid fuel stove connected to Systemlink

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Comments

  • #92
    Wearb
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 6,532 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wearb


    gary71 wrote: »
    I'v never understood how a fella can service a boiler but not understand or work on the wet side, what's the point of servicing a boiler but not bleeding a rad or checking the nonreturn valve.

    Traditionally in the UK a boiler service would automatically include the whole heating system so anybody working on boilers would check everything, room stats, rads, rad valves, MV, cylinder stat, hot water temp, F/E tank etc... so you will find most RGI will still check the basics as a given its only the big companies with a harem of poorly paid workers that have introduced pointless boiler only services.

    Anyone with a unvented cylinder in the UK simple gets a RGI with G3 accreditation who will do the cylinder as well as the boiler.

    I service all the time without doing those things. I do oil only and rarely pointless, neglected more likely.
    There is a comprehensive list of service requirements here on boards, most of which I agree with. I understand most of how it works, but I only do extra if asked. Then I charge extra (and perhaps get a name for over charging, even after extensive explanations). Some of those things are for plumbers to sort out. A regular boiler service has a fixed price and couldn't economically include many extras. I have bled rads balanced systems etc., but I don't consider that part of a boiler service and NONE of the service guys I know do either. Whether it should or not is a different story.

    As for traditional boiler services in the UK, I bow to your knowledge on that. I was only going on a small sample from cousins in London, Newcastle, Manchester and a few other places.

    We do need random inspections of installations to see that they are properly done. We also need insurers to include a leaflet with renewal notices explaining the dangers. And as you mentioned, the risk of flooding and no cover.


  • #93
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,858 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Wearb wrote: »
    I service all the time without doing those things. I do oil only and rarely pointless, neglected more likely.
    There is a comprehensive list of service requirements here on boards, most of which I agree with. I understand most of how it works, but I only do extra if asked. Then I charge extra (and perhaps get a name for over charging, even after extensive explanations). Some of those things are for plumbers to sort out. A regular boiler service has a fixed price and couldn't economically include many extras. I have bled rads balanced systems etc., but I don't consider that part of a boiler service and NONE of the service guys I know do either. Whether it should or not is a different story.

    As for traditional boiler services in the UK, I bow to your knowledge on that. I was only going on a small sample from cousins in London, Newcastle, Manchester and a few other places.

    We do need random inspections of installations to see that they are properly done. We also need insurers to include a leaflet with renewal notices explaining the dangers. And as you mentioned, the risk of flooding and no cover.

    Ireland is different to the UK as in the UK there is a tradition of time served heating engineers who are qualified to work on all aspects of a heating system.

    A gas service traditionally always incorporated whole system checks and was not boiler specific but as servicing is now profit orientated the requirement of speed has allowed a gas service to become boiler only focused as your findings have established.

    The answer to unvented cylinders is simple introduce UK :eek: G3 safety regs as its already based on past mistakes, it's only a two day course for a installer and if the council can check who's dumping rubbish they can find somebody to do a new installation cylinder safety checks, takes 10 minutes.


  • #94
    John T Carroll
    Closed Accounts Posts: 757 ✭✭✭John T Carroll


    froshtyv wrote: »
    Thanks for the replies.
    Sounds like i am going to get another plumber to fix the system.
    Dtp1979 wrote: »
    No matter what, you'll have to un pressurise your cylinder.

    Dont know if you sorted out your problem or not but the Heat Genie claims to meet the requisits for a vented solid fuel stove + a unvented Hot Water Cylinder, look at the last page of "Heat Genie" and it shows the set up for a zoned system, if you have a cold water mains to your house then it seems reasonably OK but it might be more expensive than retrofitting to a vented Hot Water Cylinder, of course, this in itself, still will not stop your Hot Water Cylinder reaching 95C/100C. The biggest problem with a stove/back boiler system is the power failure scenario and alot of people wouldnt be too happy with the emergency cooling system of the Heat Genie because of the tapstat method of admitting mains water to the H/Exchanger as it might stick, but as a "belt&braces" I dont think any rules would be broken if one fitted a loop around the valve actuated by this and fitted a spring open motorised valve which would be held closed by mains power but would default open on mains power failure.


  • #95
    Dtp1979
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,922 ✭✭✭✭Dtp1979


    John T Carroll wrote: »
    Dont know if you sorted out your problem or not but the Heat Genie claims to meet the requisits for a vented solid fuel stove + a unvented Hot Water Cylinder, look at the last page of "Heat Genie" and it shows the set up for a zoned system, if you have a cold water mains to your house then it seems reasonably OK but it might be more expensive than retrofitting to a vented Hot Water Cylinder, of course, this in itself, still will not stop your Hot Water Cylinder reaching 95C/100C. The biggest problem with a stove/back boiler system is the power failure scenario and alot of people wouldnt be too happy with the emergency cooling system of the Heat Genie because of the tapstat method of admitting mains water to the H/Exchanger as it might stick, but as a "belt&braces" I dont think any rules would be broken if one fitted a loop around the valve actuated by this and fitted a spring open motorised valve which would be held closed by mains power but would default open on mains power failure.

    Are you sure you can join a heat genie and stove into an unvented cylinder?


  • #96
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,858 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Dtp1979 wrote: »
    Are you sure you can join a heat genie and stove into an unvented cylinder?

    You can, the cylinder is not being fed direct from the stove it looks like there is a plate heat exchanger and a pumped cylinder flow so you don't have to worry about the non-gravity coil in the cylinder, the only thing I'd add is a moterised valve on the cylinder flow and not just rely on the pump to stop movement.


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  • #97
    John T Carroll
    Closed Accounts Posts: 757 ✭✭✭John T Carroll


    gary71 wrote: »
    You can, the cylinder is not being fed direct from the stove it looks like there is a plate heat exchanger and a pumped cylinder flow so you don't have to worry about the non-gravity coil in the cylinder, the only thing I'd add is a moterised valve on the cylinder flow and not just rely on the pump to stop movement.

    If referring to the zoned schematic, "MV3" should do this function?.
    http://systemlink.ie/images/stories/Heat%20Genie%20Images/Scenario2.jpg


  • #98
    rightjob!
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 478 ✭✭rightjob!


    Dtp1979 wrote: »
    Are you sure you can join a heat genie and stove into an unvented cylinder?

    The firebird heat exchanger can do this and its much more of an easier set up,


  • #99
    rightjob!
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 478 ✭✭rightjob!


    gary71 wrote: »
    You can, the cylinder is not being fed direct from the stove it looks like there is a plate heat exchanger and a pumped cylinder flow so you don't have to worry about the non-gravity coil in the cylinder, the only thing I'd add is a moterised valve on the cylinder flow and not just rely on the pump to stop movement.

    Gary iv a feeling your the same man that was out at an ariston nuos I fitted in santry in the summer? the unit that had the wrong board fitted to it?


  • #100
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,858 ✭ [Deleted User]


    rightjob! wrote: »
    Gary iv a feeling your the same man that was out at an ariston nuos I fitted in santry in the summer? the unit that had the wrong board fitted to it?

    Can't possibly comment :cool: .


  • #101
    rightjob!
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 478 ✭✭rightjob!


    gary71 wrote: »
    Can't possibly comment :cool: but Egass and Johnnk are two very good plumbers who can do a safety/service check on the Nuos.

    You are the first person to ever look for a yearly service check on you cylinder.

    I was the guy who fitted the cylinder, and done the plumbing on that house.

    It clicked with me there when I remembered you are from the uk


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  • #102
    John T Carroll
    Closed Accounts Posts: 757 ✭✭✭John T Carroll


    rightjob! wrote: »
    The firebird heat exchanger can do this and its much more of an easier set up,

    That's a fine simple looking job all right and it has a real F&E Tank, none of that fancy plastic for the men from Ballymakeera.


  • #103
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,858 ✭ [Deleted User]


    rightjob! wrote: »
    I was the guy who fitted the cylinder, and done the plumbing on that house.

    It clicked with me there when I remembered you are from the uk

    My bad.

    What a fantastic job you did just a shame you fitted a crap boiler:D


  • #104
    rightjob!
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 478 ✭✭rightjob!


    gary71 wrote: »
    My bad.

    What a fantastic job you did just a shame you fitted a crap boiler:D
    Thanks it turned out well, I wouldn't say crap but some valid points about the ones you mentioned.
    Plenty of hot water from that cylinder at all times!


  • #105
    rightjob!
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 478 ✭✭rightjob!


    John T Carroll wrote: »
    That's a fine simple looking job all right and it has a real F&E Tank, none of that fancy plastic for the men from Ballymakeera.

    They work really well,shane that was on here put me onto it and it really takes the hardship away from backboilers.

    I don't like the cooling mains valve on the system link


  • #106
    John T Carroll
    Closed Accounts Posts: 757 ✭✭✭John T Carroll


    rightjob! wrote: »
    They work really well,shane that was on here put me onto it and it really takes the hardship away from backboilers.

    I don't like the cooling mains valve on the system link


    I,m including a schematic that Shane submitted last year, it differs from the Firebird schematic (at least the link that I have) in that the Firebird only shows a thermosyphon action for the solid fuel stove but Shane's shows it with as pump assisted which I think makes more sense?, were there 3 pumps on the system you installed or was the solid fuel just circulating by thermosyphon?.
    http://www.firebird.ie/images/Downloads/Solid_Fuel_Heat_Exchanger_Brochure.pdf

    I am quite surprised that more people dont know about these combined systems, I read some time ago that Stanley alone had sold over 300,000 stoves in Ireland alone, if all the other makes are taken into account then the combined total must be probably double that of which a certain percentage will just be dry stoves but there must be quit a few thousand also feeding CH & HW systems, again one would think that a fair few of these Hot Water Cylinders are unvented so how were they plumbed in I wonder.
    Here is a link to much more info.... http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057121571&page=2


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