Does anyone have sympathy for these taxi drivers?

jimgoose · 22-01-2016 03:43PM

wendell borton wrote: »

Buying a licence wasn't an investment, it was a legal requirement for them to be able carry out their work.

Precisely. And instead of concentrating on and improving the core business and revenue model, much emphasis was placed on a get-rich-quick wheeze involving conniving, cute-hoorism and incompetent Government meddling. Who do they think they are, auctioneers?? :pac:

In New York City, "Medallions" (equivalent to taxi plates) are worth in the vicinity of $700,000 and are mostly owned by large investment companies. Drivers lease the medallions, which is costly enough but there is no shortage of Yellows in NYC at any hour of the day.

Ruu · 22-01-2016 03:48PM

You don't know if taxi drivers have been discussed before in After Hours??

:D:D

topper75 · 22-01-2016 03:59PM

Govt maintaining closed shops for the benefit of a few at the expense of the many?

Not its role. Never was.

Taxburden carrier · 22-01-2016 04:01PM

topper75 wrote: »

Govt maintaining closed shops for the benefit of a few at the expense of the many?

Not its role. Never was.

Seems to be its only role at times.

Snickers Man · 22-01-2016 04:21PM

wendell borton wrote: »

Buying a licence wasn't an investment, it was a legal requirement for them to be able carry out their work.

TommyKnocker wrote:

As I understand it (father was a taxi driver) they never "Owned" the plates. The plates always remained the property of the carriage office as it was at the time.

Not all drivers "owned" their plates. I am not sure of the exact terms of "ownership" but drivers could certainly buy and sell the rights to the plates with their colleagues.

A common practice was the use of "cosies". Which was the sharing of a cab by two or more people who had carriage licences, as opposed to taxi plates. In effect one of the drivers "owned" the plate and sub let it to another driver to drive the same car when he wasn't using it.

This was put forward by the taxi unions as the solution to the chronic undersupply of taxis, especially in Dublin: It didn't put any extra taxis on the road, which suited the taxi owners, but it did allow existing cabs to be used round the clock. As far as the travelling public was concerned, it was still hopelessly inadequate.

Depending on the personality of the taxi driver, I might have a modicum of sympathy for someone who got royally shafted by bad timing but the simple truth is that all rigged markets, such as the licence plate market was, come a cropper sooner or later.

The lions' share of the blame for that should lie with the taxi plate owners who resisted any meaningful attempts to alleviate the problem by allowing adequate numbers of licenses to be issued. Not all of them were taxi drivers. Indeed, I believe one man who owned SEVERAL plates was a former Fianna Fail TD who has seen the inside of a jail for financial irregularities.

(No names, no pack drill. Let's face it: it could have been anyone

)

end of the road · 22-01-2016 04:26PM

the situation as it was should never have been. i'm not surprised these taxi drivers failed in their bid, that was always going to happen. they may be screwed for millions now unfortunately but its doubtful most of it will ever be paid

astrofool wrote: »

These were the equivalent of a hedge fund buying up junk debts and then suing to try and get the full value on them. Deregulation was on the cards for years, and everyone in the industry knew it, they went in expecting a big pay-out from the taxpayer, and it, rightly, blew up in their faces.

No sympathy whatsoever, and they should have cut their losses before running up mountains of legal bills (that they won't pay anyway as they will go bankrupt). Idiots of the highest order.

they aren't idiots at all. taxi plates are nothing like hedge funds buying debts.

Turtyturd wrote: »

Nope, no sympathy at all. They tried to close off an industry that requires little to no skill, and was severely in need of an expanded workforce

yes, yes sympathy. they did no such thing. it was the government who decided to have a supposibly closed (which was in reality open) industry

Turtyturd wrote: »

so that they could continue earn far beyond what they should.

who decides what they should earn? who says what they were earning wasn't infact what they should be earning? just because you got paid pittence back then doesn't mean the money these lot were getting was right or wrong.

Turtyturd wrote: »

It was a nice earner but their greed came back and bit them in the ar*e.

no greed. unless your talking about the government.

Turtyturd wrote: »

Take it on the chin and move on.

not at all, they should continue and claw back their money some way or another.

Tropheus wrote: »

Time to get stuck in and earn a living like everyone else.

how is it time to get stuck in and earn a living like everyone else when that is what they are and were doing? your point is nonsense. it makes no sense.

astrofool · 22-01-2016 04:31PM

end of the road wrote: »

the situation as it was should never have been. i'm not surprised these taxi drivers failed in their bid, that was always going to happen. they may be screwed for millions now unfortunately but its doubtful most of it will ever be paid

No, the tax payer will pay for them, can't have those highly paid barristers and solicitors making do with a 5 foot gold plated aquarium when their colleagues are getting a 10 footer, can we?

melissak · 22-01-2016 04:36PM

TheBlock wrote: »

Correct in more ways than one. Did any of the Taxi Driver Union Bosses who held numerous plates sell any plates prior to deregulation.

I know the answer by the way.

Did they? Did some people know deregulation was coming before others and sell plates?

melissak · 22-01-2016 04:37PM

TheBlock wrote: »

Correct in more ways than one. Did any of the Taxi Driver Union Bosses who held numerous plates sell any plates prior to deregulation.

I know the answer by the way.

Did they? Did some people know deregulation was coming before others and sell plates?

jimgoose · 22-01-2016 04:38PM

melissak wrote: »

Did they? Did some people know deregulation was coming before others and sell plates?

Oh hell yes. Does the Pope shit in the woods, like! :pac:

seamus · 22-01-2016 04:38PM

Snickers Man wrote: »

This was put forward by the taxi unions as the solution to the chronic undersupply of taxis, especially in Dublin: It didn't put any extra taxis on the road, which suited the taxi owners, but it did allow existing cabs to be used round the clock. As far as the travelling public was concerned, it was still hopelessly inadequate.

Because the issue was never the average supply of taxis. On a weekday morning you'd be OK.
The issue was always the inability of the fleet to expand to meet peak demands.

This wasn't an issue of taxi drivers being duped or caught out. Deregulation had been coming in for years, and their union fought it at every turn with strikes and bribes and backhanders to government officials. So they knew it was coming, it was only a matter of time.

Like diamonds, the value of the plates was falsely and cynically inflated and exploited. Anyone who bought into it as an investment did so naively.

Like everyone who spent big money on small houses during the boom, these taxi drivers made a bad investment at a bad time. Suck it up, get on with it. Stop blaming other people for your own screw ups and deal with it like an adult.

We now have an actual functioning taxi service in Dublin that provides a fleet that meets the public's needs, but also puts a fair wage on the table for those who engage in it. Win-win.

dr.fuzzenstein · 22-01-2016 04:39PM

jackofalltrades wrote: »

It wasn't an investment, it was a pyramid scheme.
Created by some taxi drivers to make money out of other taxi drivers.
And they screwed over customers and used all the political power that they had to maintain it.
Should the state compensate them, no.
The state has no business in compensating people who make bad "investments".

What was telling at the time, I remember taxi drivers complaining bitterly that no bank would accept a taxi plate as collateral or security for any loans. There were enough hints that deregulation was coming for at least a year.

end of the road · 22-01-2016 04:50PM

CageWager wrote: »

People need to get real about the work they are doing.

what sort of a gibberish statement is that?

CageWager wrote: »

Luas drivers, taxi drivers etc. No offence to any of them but these just aren't jobs that command professional salaries of 50k+.

what 50k+. stop pulling figures out of your arse for god sake. no luas driver is or will be on 50k, same with taxi drivers. public transport workers do command a decent wage, thats the market.

CageWager wrote: »

Everyone see's the other guy doing an "easy job" - accountant, solicitor etc. and wants to be paid the same. I'm sure it's tough being a taxi driver, but that doesn't change the fact that market forces determine the level at which you will be compensated.

great, you agree then that luas drivers are paid the market rate and if their wages do rise it will be within market parameters. grand so.

CageWager wrote: »

I don't think any industry deserves protection from the government to facilitate a gravy train for the few people that already have a licence

some industries need exactly that. these gravy trains are a myth that only exist in the minds of begrudgers.

CageWager wrote: »

In terms of losing their investment, tough shít..

not tough **** at all. they were screwed over by the government who were happy to take their money, so now they need to claw some of that back via what means that are left to them now as compo isn't happening.

CageWager wrote: »

People need to take personal responsibility. If you buy anything, a house/taxi plate/stock, it is at your own risk - caveat emptor.

not if the government decides to heavily regulate your industry meaning if you want to be part of it you have to spend huge sums of money.

CageWager wrote: »

Nobody owes you anything.

the government owes these people some money for screwing them over..

end of the road · 22-01-2016 04:54PM

topper75 wrote: »

Govt maintaining closed shops for the benefit of a few at the expense of the many?

Not its role. Never was.

sometimes it is

seamus wrote: »

Suck it up, get on with it. Stop blaming other people for your own screw ups and deal with it like an adult.

not suck it up, not get on with anything, claw back some money how you can, rightly blame the government for allowing a heavily regulated industry, and not deal with it like "begrudgers" (who would do the same if they were in these drivers situation themselves)

seamus wrote: »

We now have an actual functioning taxi service in Dublin that provides a fleet that meets the public's needs, but also puts a fair wage on the table for those who engage in it. Win-win.

we now have a lowly regulated industry, with an over capacity, that doesn't really put a fair wage on the table for those who engage in it (apart from in seamus's imagination) . only win win for those who didn't pass the relevant criteria and who were annoyed they couldn't get into the industry

seamus · 22-01-2016 04:56PM

end of the road wrote: »

not tough **** at all. they were screwed over by the government who were happy to take their money, so now they need to claw some of that back via what means that are left to them now as compo isn't happening.

The government didn't take their money. The actual price of a plate never changed.

It was other taxi drivers who were happy to take their money.

Perhaps it's the NTDU who should be paying compensation considering it was them and their (former) members who benefitted from this pyramid scheme. The state collected nothing out of it.

The YOPPA · 22-01-2016 05:08PM

I worked on a Tax Office public counter years ago where the self employed would come in once a year to pay their SELF ASSESSMENT tax...9 times out of 10 if you were handed a bill in the region of Â£200(as it was then) we knew it was a Taxi Driver before looking it up on the VDU(yes VDU)
So do I feel sorry for taxi drivers...Eh, not on your Nelly ðŸš•

insullation · 22-01-2016 05:17PM

Same happens the haulage industry in 1988 with no compensation paid...its only farmers in Ireland that get compensated for everything

end of the road · 22-01-2016 05:21PM

The YOPPA wrote: »

I worked on a Tax Office public counter years ago where the self employed would come in once a year to pay their SELF ASSESSMENT tax...9 times out of 10 if you were handed a bill in the region of Â£200(as it was then) we knew it was a Taxi Driver before looking it up on the VDU(yes VDU)
So do I feel sorry for taxi drivers...Eh, not on your Nelly ðŸš•

you don't feel sorry for them because their tax bill was low? thats hardly a reason is it?

oppenheimer1 · 22-01-2016 05:43PM

end of the road wrote: »

you don't feel sorry for them because their tax bill was low? thats hardly a reason is it?

I'd say it was because they knowingly vastly under declared their income. Then again you know that.:rolleyes:

The YOPPA · 22-01-2016 05:44PM

End of the road...I believe it is...they were paying a pittance compared to everyone else I came across in my job...they were creaming it!!

The Backwards Man · 22-01-2016 05:54PM

The YOPPA wrote: »

End of the road...I believe it is...they were paying a pittance compared to everyone else I came across in my job...they were creaming it!!

Not necessarily. I'm self employed and I have to over declare my income or else the Revenue will pull me aside some year and tell me I'm better off on the dole.

HeidiHeidi · 22-01-2016 06:01PM

end of the road wrote: »

not tough **** at all. they were screwed over by the government who were happy to take their money, so now they need to claw some of that back via what means that are left to them now as compo isn't happening.

not if the government decides to heavily regulate your industry meaning if you want to be part of it you have to spend huge sums of money.

the government owes these people some money for screwing them over..

end of the road wrote: »

sometimes it is

not suck it up, not get on with anything, claw back some money how you can, rightly blame the government for allowing a heavily regulated industry, and not deal with it like "begrudgers" (who would do the same if they were in these drivers situation themselves)

we now have a lowly regulated industry, with an over capacity, that doesn't really put a fair wage on the table for those who engage in it (apart from in seamus's imagination) . only win win for those who didn't pass the relevant criteria and who were annoyed they couldn't get into the industry

Now hold on a minute there...... the government were trying for years to deregulate the taxi industry! How in the name of jaysus can you blame the govt for "allowing" a heavily regulated industry?

And the government(s) didn't benefit from the outrageous prices commanded by taxi plates back in the day, so how could they possibly owe the aggrieved plate owners anything?

And as for the second bit.... you sound suspiciously like you're making an argument for regulation again - have I got that right???

seamus · 22-01-2016 06:11PM

end of the road wrote: »

we now have a lowly regulated industry, with an over capacity, that doesn't really put a fair wage on the table for those who engage in it (apart from in seamus's imagination) . only win win for those who didn't pass the relevant criteria and who were annoyed they couldn't get into the industry

Weren't you the one who was asking, "who decides" what a fair wage is? And now you're claiming that it doesn't earn drivers a fair wage?

We've had this discussion before - the market balances out, if driving doesn't put a fair wage on the table, people leave the industry.

In fact, taxi licences have been on a steady decline since the economy crashed, which demonstrates that market forces are working just perfectly.

If it didn't put a fair wage on the table, people wouldn't be doing it. Simple as.

SEPT 23 1989 · 22-01-2016 06:13PM

Having to walk in the pissings of rain from the city centre to near Heuston Station before you would get a taxi home on a Saturday night

deregulation was badly needed

22-01-2016 06:20PM

The same sympathy I'd have for anyone who buys something that is subsequently devalued by events outside their control, a house, a pub licence (which were going for huge money in the mid 00s) bank shares (the safest bet at one time) etc. No one can be happy with it, but that's the risk one takes. It doesn't mean a right to compensation.

Turtyturd · 22-01-2016 06:27PM

End of the road talking more boll*x than even the average taxi driver could manage.

pawrick · 22-01-2016 06:35PM

I feel some sympathy for specific cases such as people who got in to it at the end but no overall I think they screwed themselves as an industry through their own greed. That's not to say I agree with how easy it became to get a licence either but something had to be done at the time.

end of the road · 22-01-2016 07:14PM

seamus wrote: »

We've had this discussion before - the market balances out, if driving doesn't put a fair wage on the table, people leave the industry.

the market doesn't ballance out. not working. try again.

seamus wrote: »

In fact, taxi licences have been on a steady decline since the economy crashed, which demonstrates that market forces are working just perfectly.

it doesn't demonstrate that market forces are working just perfectly as they aren't.

seamus wrote: »

If it didn't put a fair wage on the table, people wouldn't be doing it. Simple as.

wrong. a job is a job. some have no option. it doesn't put a fair wage on the table.

pawrick wrote: »

I feel some sympathy for specific cases such as people who got in to it at the end but no overall I think they screwed themselves as an industry through their own greed. That's not to say I agree with how easy it became to get a licence either but something had to be done at the time.

they're was no greed.

Valetta · 22-01-2016 07:26PM

end of the road wrote: »

the market doesn't ballance out. not working. try again.

it doesn't demonstrate that market forces are working just perfectly as they aren't.

wrong. a job is a job. some have no option. it doesn't put a fair wage on the table.

they're was no greed.

Care to offer an explanation or justification for all the false claims?

Na.... Didn't think so.

ohmplate · 22-01-2016 07:28PM

There was rediciulous greed and there still is. The racist ranks in Dublin are controlled by the old guard and they intimidate anyone that tries to operate from them. It's still the same entitled mindset at play.

Does anyone have sympathy for these taxi drivers?

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