Sexism you have personally experienced or have heard of? READ POST 1

ancapailldorcha · 17-01-2016 3:11pm

maybe

Maybe we could look at sorting a few quotas for those unionised, well-paid public sector jobs as well. Teaching, for instance.

silverharp · 17-01-2016 5:04pm

The Black Oil wrote: »

Quotas needed there too, right?

https://twitter.com/UnaMullally/status/688364497115987968

the only schadenfreude is that most traditional media is going to be shedding jobs in the years ahead and the parts that are growing wont be listening to these clowns

if you think about it , the growth of the whole quangocrat and other lefty do gooder organistaions , they are all huge employers of women.

deaddonkey15 · 17-01-2016 5:24pm

She left a tweet implying that she won't go and see The Revenant as it has a predominantly male cast.

silverharp · 17-01-2016 5:44pm

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

She left a tweet implying that she won't go and see The Revenent as it has a predominantly male cast.

lol, what a loon!

deaddonkey15 · 17-01-2016 6:01pm

silverharp wrote: »

lol, what a loon!

Also RT'd a tweet with a link to this piece of nonsense
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jan/17/revenant-leonardo-dicaprio-violent-meaningless-glorification-pain?CMP=twt_gu

17-01-2016 6:23pm

Other than specific focus meetings, the vast majority of attendees to branch/constituent meeting (or canvassing) have been men.
I am really sick of this Gender Balance crap. If groups of women want to be in the running for the Dail how about they do the grass roots work.

I have asked several Quota favourable politicians to show me the break down of party members, across the genders and those which attend meetings, but no party will respond.

Is it because the vast majority of active party members are men, the campaigners tend to be men and those at meetings tend to be men? In my anecdotal evidence this is true and that is all I have to go on, as the parties will not release the relevant information.

I believe that this gender quota lark is sexist bollocks as a minority ratio of members seem to be getting a disproportional representation.

JRant · 17-01-2016 11:17pm

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

Also RT'd a tweet with a link to this piece of nonsense
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jan/17/revenant-leonardo-dicaprio-violent-meaningless-glorification-pain?CMP=twt_gu

Absolutely incredible stuff. Instead of comparing a Hollywood movie with IS, perhaps she should pick up a different paper and have a look at what happened in Cologne.

It makes me sad that clowns like this can't see the wood for the trees. Blame Hollywood, the western men, the patriarch, hell take your pick of easy targets but you'll not hear a peep about the real wolves at the door.

No doubt they would perform some sort of mental gymnastics to blame the patriarch for Merkels decision to open the borders to all those liberal, equal rights loving North African and Middle Eastern enlightened individuals.

Wibbs · 18-01-2016 12:23am

maybe

Una Mullally/"Fempower"/Gender audit. That's all you really needed to see guys and gals. Just another clickbait loon that editors cynically know sells papers and page views on the back of the collective WTF of the rest of us. Like that aged peroxided bint on the UK Mail(whose name blissfully escapes). The fact she has the gall/naiveté/ballsology/abject daftness[delete as applicable] to suggest that the "media" has a gender inequality going on says everything. The mainstream media, certainly in Ireland, is overwhelmingly on the "leftie", "feminist" and "right on" side of debate. Una Dulally more like.

Canadel · 18-01-2016 2:17am

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

Also RT'd a tweet with a link to this piece of nonsense
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jan/17/revenant-leonardo-dicaprio-violent-meaningless-glorification-pain?CMP=twt_gu

To be fair, she is bang on the money with everything she says before she starts harping on about ISIS. Visually stunning movie with several vapid, violent scenes which achieve nothing other than illustrating, quite vividly, the pain and suffering of the lead character. The movie takes a mildly inspiring story and turns it into a tepid affair with some nice shots of the mountains and rivers thrown in to wow audiences and win some awards. I'd probably have walked out after an hour only for the fact I was far in from the aisle and didn't want to disturb anyone. Leo and his character might have endured a lot in this movie, but it's nothing compared to the endurance test faced by the audience.

Film forum>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

ancapailldorcha · 18-01-2016 10:46am

maybe

So, BBC's The Big Questions had a debate about social media and misgyny yesterday with Milo Yiannopoulos, Connie St. Louis and Kate Smurthwaite as guest commentators.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYh7uq-hzhY

I'll preface this by stating that I am no fan of Yiannopoulos at all. He's slimy, noxious and happy to keep silent about sexism and abuse when it suits him. However, at least he cites studies to back up his points. He waits his turn patiently and is then shouted down by the 2 feminists who call for him to be removed. Odd how they use tactics they chide men for purportedly using to keep women silent. Finally, a man in the audience speaks up saying that Milo doesn't represent all men only to be told that it's "just words".

fits · 18-01-2016 11:12am

Wibbs wrote: »

Una Mullally/"Fempower"/Gender audit. That's all you really needed to see guys and gals. Just another clickbait loon that editors cynically know sells papers and page views on the back of the collective WTF of the rest of us. Like that aged peroxided bint on the UK Mail(whose name blissfully escapes). The fact she has the gall/naiveté/ballsology/abject daftness[delete as applicable] to suggest that the "media" has a gender inequality going on says everything. The mainstream media, certainly in Ireland, is overwhelmingly on the "leftie", "feminist" and "right on" side of debate. Una Dulally more like.

OK I am going to post one post on this topic and am not getting drawn into a discussion on it. but here goes.

She has a point.

Time and time again female/feminist posters are asked in here why they do not do more to distance themselves from the extreme feminist organisations, a group who make up a tiny tiny proportion of the worlds population. But the same is never asked of men to distance themselves from this behaviour which transcends class, race, etc. It is a global epidemic. It really is. And I have rarely seen any meaningful self examination from men as to why this behaviour is so widespread. And it is.

I walked into flannerys bar about ten years ago and was molested four times in two minutes as I was walking through. By different men. I could not see who the perpetrators were because it was so packed. I was powerless to react. There was an opportunity there and they took it. I walked out and never set foot in that bar or any similar bar since. It disgusts me.

So, why do a lot of men behave like this? WHY? And why do you turn a blind eye to your sleazy friend who does this. At least tell them to cop the fcuk on if you are not at this behaviour yourself. Its not harmless and its not funny. And it does lead to more serious stuff too.

Its in bars its online, its everywhere. And only men can stop it.

18-01-2016 11:38am

fits wrote: »

OK I am going to post one post on this topic and am not getting drawn into a discussion on it. but here goes.

She has a point.

Time and time again female/feminist posters are asked in here why they do not do more to distance themselves from the extreme feminist organisations, a group who make up a tiny tiny proportion of the worlds population. But the same is never asked of men to distance themselves from this behaviour which transcends class, race, etc. It is a global epidemic. It really is. And I have rarely seen any meaningful self examination from men as to why this behaviour is so widespread. And it is.

I walked into flannerys bar about ten years ago and was molested four times in two minutes as I was walking through. By different men. I could not see who the perpetrators were because it was so packed. I was powerless to react. There was an opportunity there and they took it. I walked out and never set foot in that bar or any similar bar since. It disgusts me.

So, why do a lot of men behave like this? WHY? And why do you turn a blind eye to your sleazy friend who does this. At least tell them to cop the fcuk on if you are not at this behaviour yourself. Its not harmless and its not funny. And it does lead to more serious stuff too.

Its in bars its online, its everywhere. And only men can stop it.

Yet I posted the same thing happening to me and others in clubs. Happens both ways but only the male as perpetrators side is really ever commented on.

And "only men can stop it" is bollocks. How do I stop something a random guy does, which I can not see???

tritium · 18-01-2016 11:38am

fits wrote: »

OK I am going to post one post on this topic and am not getting drawn into a discussion on it. but here goes.

She has a point.

Time and time again female/feminist posters are asked in here why they do not do more to distance themselves from the extreme feminist organisations, a group who make up a tiny tiny proportion of the worlds population. But the same is never asked of men to distance themselves from this behaviour which transcends class, race, etc. It is a global epidemic. It really is. And I have rarely seen any meaningful self examination from men as to why this behaviour is so widespread. And it is.

I walked into flannerys bar about ten years ago and was molested four times in two minutes as I was walking through. By different men. I could not see who the perpetrators were because it was so packed. I was powerless to react. There was an opportunity there and they took it. I walked out and never set foot in that bar or any similar bar since. It disgusts me.

So, why do a lot of men behave like this? WHY? And why do you turn a blind eye to your sleazy friend who does this. At least tell them to cop the fcuk on if you are not at this behaviour yourself. Its not harmless and its not funny. And it does lead to more serious stuff too.

Its in bars its online, its everywhere. And only men can stop it.

Umm I'm a bloke and I've been molested in Flannerys (and coppers) in the past. By women no less, presumably women who had been drinking. Why do women put up with this behaviour from their friends? Where is the introspection from *all* women about the behaviour of a small minority. Because, to paraphrase your post, only women can stop it!

Or to put it another way, your post is looking to make a gender issue out of something that is far more about teaching some folk of both genders a bit of manners and respect. Which frankly doesn't just fall on men (mother's might be an obvious starting point actually)

It kind of touches on one of the issues I have with a lot of feminist media contributions, the constant whine of "oh why cant men change"-as if all men have a responsibility to ensure they and other men become the version of masculinity that feminism deems acceptable. Bollox frankly and completely unrealisable. Men are men in that vast array of shapes and sizes, some are nice some are not. Generally the not nice ones do not nice things, just like the not nice women do. Having a penis doesn't confer an obligation to manage the herd I'm afraid.

If you disagree that men don't have an obligation to make other men more 'acceptable' to women then could you at least point out the equivalent obligation on women to make their fellow women more acceptable to men, if for no other reason than to remove any sniff of hypocrisy within elements of the feminist movement....

Wibbs · 18-01-2016 11:49am

maybe

Like you I'm no fan of Milo, he's just another clickbaiting commentator riling up an audience. However at least he does it admit this. As you said he also will at least make some attempt to back up his position with named studies and research. His clickbait "feminist" opponents almost never do. The usual level of debate with them is anecdote, nebulous "facts", all the way to complete mistruths. Woe betide you if you question them too. That in itself is seen as "sexist". They're looking for an echo chamber and that's all they want*. They also take anecdote to the personal the second they think they're losing the debate/audience. Basically trying to plug into the natural human sympathy socket. This is an extremely common tactic. I've seen it in a few places(inc Boards). Usually goes like; "Such and such is sexist…" "OK how?" "How dare you question me, it happened to me therefore it's a guaranteed wider problem!! All I want is acceptance and support" type stuff, often with a "I'm leaving as it hurts too much" style response. They're also quick to run to appeal to authority in a heartbeat. They're happy to try and drown out other voices, but cry foul to authority(in this case the host and laughingly often a man) if they get anything similar in return. That above was a good example of how these interwebs harpies operate. In other words professional practiced passive aggressive victimhood. It's what turned me right off this "third wave feminism". Never mind their views of men, it paints women as perpetual victims.

Oh and why they are still giving airspace to the self called "professor of science journalism" that was called out on her many dubious claims is beyond me.

*This is also common among many manists or whatever they call themselves. Red pill types in particular seem to find any dissension from their script problematic. I recall about a year ago I had a read of that clickbait central "Return of Kings" forum and while there were quite a few clearly bright posters among the daft, what hit me even on a perusal was how many banned posters there were. These weren't low post newbies riling up trouble either, we're talking posters of long standing with thousands of posts that had somehow gone off script. I found it both informative and ironic how they were acting exactly like the daft feminist types they laughed at. An irony lost on them. Though like the whole "pickup" industry it's a handy money spinner keeping disaffected young men coming to your site/blog/books/seminars.

Zulu · 18-01-2016 12:00pm

No

fits wrote: »

I walked into flannerys bar...

So, why do a lot of men behave like this? WHY? And why do you turn a blind eye to your sleazy friend who does this. ....

Its in bars its online, its everywhere. And only men can stop it.

Bollox. Bolloxollogy.

I worked as lounge staff at Tomangos when I was a young lad.
Tuesday night (aka "grab-a-granny" night) was always the same. Groups of middle aged "ladies" doing exactly what you accuse all men of. Some women would sleaze making wildly inappropriate comments, some others would grope. Nothing was out of bounds for them. And as a young 16/17 year old lad, I'd brush it off unless it hurt (one girl grabbed a testicle so hard I was fighting back tears).

So what does this tell us? It tells us that its a social issue - not a gender specific issue. And to lay the blame squarely at the foot of countless innocent men is prejudice, sexist misandry.

Shame on you.

Wibbs · 18-01-2016 12:08pm

maybe

Oops, was just replying to ACD's post and missed this, but handily enough IMHO of course, it does illustrate some of my points to some degree…

fits wrote: »

OK I am going to post one post on this topic and am not getting drawn into a discussion on it.

I'm going to drop a grenade statement and walk away. That sounds awfully like wanting an echo chamber of agreement, does it not? If I make a broad statement I at least have the courage of my convictions to follow through on it.

She has a point.

Which one? Gender inequality in Irish media? That's beyond a laugh. It could hardly be more modern feminist friendly. Though if that's the point you're referring too, I'm not sure how it gels with what follows?

Time and time again female/feminist posters are asked in here why they do not do more to distance themselves from the extreme feminist organisations, a group who make up a tiny tiny proportion of the worlds population. But the same is never asked of men to distance themselves from this behaviour which transcends class, race, etc. It is a global epidemic. It really is. And I have rarely seen any meaningful self examination from men as to why this behaviour is so widespread. And it is.

I walked into flannerys bar about ten years ago and was molested four times in two minutes as I was walking through. By different men. I could not see who the perpetrators were because it was so packed. I was powerless to react. There was an opportunity there and they took it. I walked out and never set foot in that bar or any similar bar since. It disgusts me.

So, why do a lot of men behave like this? WHY? And why do you turn a blind eye to your sleazy friend who does this. At least tell them to cop the fcuk on if you are not at this behaviour yourself. Its not harmless and its not funny. And it does lead to more serious stuff too.

Its in bars its online, its everywhere. And only men can stop it.

Hmmm. Anecdote, generalisation, personal experience, then walk away leaving it hanging.

I suppose Tritium kinda nails it for me:

tritium wrote:

Umm I'm a bloke and I've been molested in Flannerys (and coppers) in the past. By women no less, presumably women who had been drinking. Why do women put up with this behaviour from their friends? Where is the introspection from *all* women about the behaviour of a small minority. Because, to paraphrase your post, only women can stop it!

Or to put it another way, your post is looking to make a gender issue out of something that is far more about teaching some folk of both genders a bit of manners and respect. Which frankly doesn't just fall on men (mother's might be an obvious starting point actually)

It kind of touches on one of the issues I have with a lot of feminist media contributions, the constant whine of "oh why cant men change"-as if all men have a responsibility to ensure they and other men become the version of masculinity that feminism deems acceptable. Bollox frankly and completely unrealisable. Men are men in that vast array of shapes and sizes, some are nice some are not. Generally the not nice ones do not nice things, just like the not nice women do. Having a penis doesn't confer an obligation to manage the herd I'm afraid.

If you disagree that men don't have an obligation to make other men more 'acceptable' to women then could you at least point out the equivalent obligation on women to make their fellow women more acceptable to men, if for no other reason than to remove any sniff of hypocrisy within elements of the feminist movement....

Particularly the underlined bits.

If anything men are the gender who self governs more. A recent example was the hidden camera street experiment where they got a man to act aggressively towards his partner and it was men who were quick to step in to call foul. Hell, men have been injured even killed for doing similar(in Ireland too). When the women was "attacking" the man, nobody stepped in and indeed smirks and laughter were the order of the day. In prisons rapists and child molesters can't be left in the general population as the other prisoners will attempt to kill them.

Try a little experiment yourself. Go into a nightclub and get a man to obviously feel up a woman in plain sight and see what happens. Then try the same thing with the genders reversed. I'll take decent bets now on which will be called on it/thrown out by security. If you really want to cause a ruckus, try the same thing only with a slap to the face. If the guy makes it out without a black eye he'll be lucky.

In any event at what point did it come back into feminism where women required the protection and defence of men from men?

OldRio · 18-01-2016 12:08pm

fits wrote: »

OK I am going to post one post on this topic and am not getting drawn into a discussion on it. but here goes.

She has a point.

Time and time again female/feminist posters are asked in here why they do not do more to distance themselves from the extreme feminist organisations, a group who make up a tiny tiny proportion of the worlds population. But the same is never asked of men to distance themselves from this behaviour which transcends class, race, etc. It is a global epidemic. It really is. And I have rarely seen any meaningful self examination from men as to why this behaviour is so widespread. And it is.

I walked into flannerys bar about ten years ago and was molested four times in two minutes as I was walking through. By different men. I could not see who the perpetrators were because it was so packed. I was powerless to react. There was an opportunity there and they took it. I walked out and never set foot in that bar or any similar bar since. It disgusts me.

So, why do a lot of men behave like this? WHY? And why do you turn a blind eye to your sleazy friend who does this. At least tell them to cop the fcuk on if you are not at this behaviour yourself. Its not harmless and its not funny. And it does lead to more serious stuff too.

An appalling story but why, if I may ask, do you then blame me? I don't even know where this 'Flannerys' establishment is.

Wibbs · 18-01-2016 12:16pm

maybe

OldRio wrote: »

An appalling story but why, if I may ask, do you then blame me?

It always boils down to this IMH; women are always victims, men are always the perpetrators and more, even if you as a man aren't a perpetrator, you are still responsible for other men being so.

It's also an unbelievably archaic and "patriarchal" idea, which is the scary irony of it all. Women are delicate creatures with less agency and responsibilities than men and it is men's job to protect them. The hell?

Wibbs · 18-01-2016 12:19pm

maybe

Actually considering the title of this thread, we've just witnessed a perfect example of generalised sexism at work. "Men groped me in a club once, therefore all men are in some way to blame for that".

ancapailldorcha · 18-01-2016 1:34pm

maybe

fits wrote: »

OK I am going to post one post on this topic and am not getting drawn into a discussion on it. but here goes.

She has a point.

Time and time again female/feminist posters are asked in here why they do not do more to distance themselves from the extreme feminist organisations, a group who make up a tiny tiny proportion of the worlds population. But the same is never asked of men to distance themselves from this behaviour which transcends class, race, etc. It is a global epidemic. It really is. And I have rarely seen any meaningful self examination from men as to why this behaviour is so widespread. And it is.

Well, the main difference is that the disparity between the platforms. The likes of Jessica Valenti and Julie Bindel write for the Guardian. In fairness, Mr. Yiannopoulos is an editor for Breitbart so he has a mainstream platform as well but most of this stuff is in more obscure places and most people have never heard of the manosphere or the red pill movement. I also prefaced my post stating my dislike for Mr. Yiannopoulos. In addition, men who make these arguments are often shouted down or ridiculed with ad homena as opposed to being engaged with. This only serves to fuel their oppression narrative.

fits wrote: »

I walked into flannerys bar about ten years ago and was molested four times in two minutes as I was walking through. By different men. I could not see who the perpetrators were because it was so packed. I was powerless to react. There was an opportunity there and they took it. I walked out and never set foot in that bar or any similar bar since. It disgusts me.

So, why do a lot of men behave like this? WHY? And why do you turn a blind eye to your sleazy friend who does this. At least tell them to cop the fcuk on if you are not at this behaviour yourself. Its not harmless and its not funny. And it does lead to more serious stuff too.

Its in bars its online, its everywhere. And only men can stop it.

The sleaziest my friends get is telling puerile jokes amongst ourselves. None of the people I would call friend would grope a woman. None.

I used to work as a waiter/porter in a country hotel. There was a man who attended a few weddings during my tenure who saw nothing wrong with creeping up behind me and groping me. I know what it’s like though I’m not saying for one moment that women’s complaints on the subject are unwarranted.

py2006 · 18-01-2016 2:07pm

The above 'one post and only one post' above is typical of the response men get when then speak of sexism etc. How dare us, only women are victims...

py2006 · 18-01-2016 2:11pm

I was never a big club going kinda guy. I went about a handful of times when I was younger. I had my ass pinched several times by girls, I also had my crotched grabbed on a few occasions. If I was a regular goer...

Talk to guys who frequent clubs and you will here more. As guys we are to put up and shut up with this behaviour, we are laughed at or the usual, "oh yea, you loved that".

I also know a few taxi drivers who would tell you a story or two about the behaviour of drunken girls at 2am. Most of which most guys would NEVER say or do to a stranger.

um7y1h83ge06nx · 18-01-2016 2:13pm

That one Una Mullally is some chancer. :rolleyes:

Going to a talk trying to stir up actions that will artificially restrict competition in her chosen field to her benefit. It would make it much more likely that she would more quicker up the ranks.

Hmmm, how can I do that in my job... :rolleyes:

py2006 · 18-01-2016 2:31pm

Don't get me started on Una

Female politicians speaking out against gender quotas remind me of the handful of gay men who spoke out against marriage equality.

Souce

Having said that, I wish her well in her health.

silverharp · 18-01-2016 2:34pm

Una again today writes an excellent professionally written piece and not biased or misandric in anyway piece on Cologne, no attempt at deflection or damage control....

http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/una-mullally-cologne-assaults-a-mass-act-of-misogyny-1.2499905

Una Mullally: Cologne assaults a mass act of misogyny
irishtimes.com/opinion/una-mullally-cologne-assaults-a-mass-act-of-misogyny-1.2499905

The details of what happened in Cologne on New Year’s Eve, where hundreds of men mostly from immigrant backgrounds were involved in assaulting women, are still emerging. The apparent co-ordination of group sexual assaults and muggings is bizarre and terrifying. It is a mass act of misogyny.

I can’t imagine how frustrated and ashamed fellow asylum seekers, illegal immigrants and immigrants in general in Germany must feel about this behaviour. We all hold collective shame when one of our own does something terrible in another country. It doesn’t take much to trigger racism and anti-immigrant sentiment in Europe today but, wow, talk about giving a bunch of people a bad name. With right-wing voices now suddenly interested in violence against women, perhaps we can utilise this moment to address the broader issue.

Perpetrators of sexual assault against women do have one thing in common, and it’s not religion or ethnicity, it’s gender. “It’d be great if we could take rape, sexual assault and structural misogyny as seriously every day as we do when migrants and Muslims are involved as perpetrators,” Laurie Penny wrote in the New Statesman.

Collective and individual assaults
Perpetrators of sexual assault are typified by their diversity. But the common denominator is men. Until we are honest with ourselves about that, and until prevention focuses on stopping men from assaulting women – not blaming one demographic of men, or outlining ways in which women can avoid potential assault – we are kidding ourselves. What happened in Cologne, that mass act, was primarily unusual in its collective nature. But all over the world, in every village, town and city, mass acts of misogyny are fragmented daily, manifesting as individual assaults. We ignore them, because they are not as newsworthy. Victims of sexual assault are just as diverse. Being raped transcends all demographics.

Are there cultural differences that colour both good behaviour and bad behaviour? Yes, of course. But it’s not necessarily a case of “some do that and others do this”. It’s more: many do the same thing, but do it differently. Street harassments and assaults happen everywhere. How they unfold can have local quirks, but the upshot is the same.

By travelling, women become aware of the cultural differences in street harassment. We end up making broad generalisations about the idiosyncrasies of harassment from place to place: guys in this place are sleazier than in that place, you’ll get more hassle in that country than the other country, that city is more dangerous for women than this city. Women share experiences and anecdotes because personal safety is something at the forefront of our minds. This layer of negotiating places is often invisible to men, because potential male perpetrators act very differently when men are around.

When women talk about these experiences, they are frequently shouted down by some men who refuse to try and see the world from a woman’s perspective. “You’re blaming all men!” some say, as a way of shutting down the conversation. Of course women aren’t blaming all men. I am, however, blaming all men who assault women. There’s a massive difference.

When I was out for a jog the other week down Dublin’s Grand Canal at 5pm, a bunch of young lads whizzed past me on bikes. One smacked me hard on the ass. Did he do that because he grew up in Ireland? No. Did he do that because of what religion he was? No. He did it because among some men – especially in a group dynamic of their peers during those volatile teenage years – there is a profound sense of entitlement and desire to assert power over women, a subconscious need to intimidate, and a misplaced sense that subjecting women to assault is point-scoring among pals. It is about dominance. It is about reminding us that we are in danger. It makes women fear some men. There is a warped sense of a game about the whole thing, but that game is one of hunting.

If I had been jogging with a male friend, would I have been assaulted? I doubt it. If a man had been jogging alone would he have been assaulted in the same way?

Almost certainly not. Men are often victims of unprovoked violence (mostly by other men), but it is rarer for that violence to be sexual. By taking an uppity stance that assaulting women is something “the other” does, we are ignoring both a global and local experience.

Scale of misogyny
Sexual harassment does not exist in cultural or religious vacuums. It exists on a scale of misogyny. It resides in laddish banter. It lives in the objectification and humiliation of women which is the white noise that soundtracks everything from media consumption, to nights out, to pornography, to classroom joshing, to workplace sexism, to a jog by a canal. It is everywhere. And from culture to culture, that misogyny is acted out in different ways. Some women are raped whether they’re wearing niqabs or hotpants. Some men rape regardless of their social or cultural or ethnic or religious or class backgrounds. Some immigrants assault women, so do some poor men, and some rich men, and some men who are already discriminated against, and some men who’ve never been discriminated against.

We disown violence against women as something “the other” does at our peril.

Carlos Orange · 18-01-2016 2:56pm

No

silverharp wrote: »

Perpetrators of sexual assault against women do have one thing in common, and it’s not religion or ethnicity, it’s gender.

...

We disown violence against women as something “the other” does at our peril.

Something doesn't quite fit here.

Robsweezie · 19-01-2016 7:36am

I assume we're all at least slightly familiar with take me out, the dating game show with a bunch of ladies looking for a man, who is subject to judgement on everything from physical appearance to personality. The often nervous fella is wheeled out in front of an army of potential dates to sell himself to, If he doesn't measure up he gets "buzzed" by the no longer interested ladies.

Would the producers even entertain the idea of a reversed gender format so that the women are the ones getting buzzed by a gang of men and told their nose is too big?

El_Duderino 09 · 19-01-2016 8:49am

tritium wrote:

If you disagree that men don't have an obligation to make other men more 'acceptable' to women then could you at least point out the equivalent obligation on women to make their fellow women more acceptable to men, if for no other reason than to remove any sniff of hypocrisy within elements of the feminist movement....

I this attitude is the strangest of all in this discussion. The poster has realised that the argument is valid and applies to men in the same way that it should apply to women. Instead of trying to apply the point to men and women in a feminist way, ye poster tries to blow the topic out of the water and say that 'unrealisable' to stop people groping others in a pub.

How 'unrealisable' is it to turn to a mate who groped gomeone in a pub and say 'that's out of order'. All you have to do is make it socially unacceptable. You don't have to have a deep-and-meaningful with your friend and discuss feminism or groping people.

The poster asked about how they are supposed to police all men. The answer is that you aren't. I wouldn't approach a stranger and tell them what to do in a pub. I can tell my own mates if they do something ridiculous.

Simple really.

Pawwed Rig · 20-01-2016 10:15pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I this attitude is the strangest of all in this discussion. The poster has realised that the argument is valid and applies to men in the same way that it should apply to women. Instead of trying to apply the point to men and women in a feminist way, ye poster tries to blow the topic out of the water and say that 'unrealisable' to stop people groping others in a pub.

Are we reading the same post? He didn't say any of that! Admittedly the use of the double negative did obscure the point slightly.

Panthro · 21-01-2016 11:04am

maybe

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/here-are-the-10-new-actions-in-the-govts-new-strategy-to-deal-with-domestic-and-sexual-violence-716659.html

1 in 5 women but strangely enough zero stats for men.

Sexism you have personally experienced or have heard of? *READ POST 1*

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Sexism you have personally experienced or have heard of? READ POST 1